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Ealing pitch
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MikeGC View Drop Down
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Points: 474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 13:08
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

Originally posted by MikeGC MikeGC wrote:

Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

The 2017/18 PRISP


forgive my ignorance but what does PRISP mean and/or stand for ?
Ta


Got it right there.
What does it matter what it stands for,  PRISP are only going to be old buffers anyway ?
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Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

Dylan Hartley in todays Grundian

 Hartley said he would like to ban playing professional rugby on artificial pitches, having injured his knee on Worcester’s artificial grass in December. “I don’t agree with them,” he said. “I’d played the fortnight before and I’d tweaked my knee in a game, then I played on an artificial pitch the following week and probably playing on an injury didn’t help. If there’s a platform to show my support for getting rid of artificial pitches, it’s here. It might be suited to under-10s or under-12s but from a personal point of view I don’t like them.”

The irony of a man who has served over a year of bans wanting pitches banned is tremendous!
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https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/staggering-amount-of-injuries-on-4g-pitches-compared-to-grass-1.3641369

It said that for that season 608 injuries were recorded on grass, 170 on artificial surfaces. With just three pitches the exposure to plastic was less, but returned injury rates of 129.1 per 1,000 hours compared to the grass rate of 89.6 per 1,000 hours, the total hours representing 25 matches. The average severity for match injuries on grass was 32 days, compared with 37 days for artificial turf.

So despite taking the proverbial out of Hartley, there are studies that suggest in our game the number of injuries and severity is increased on artificial pitches.  However, I've found studies based on football that suggest the amount of injuries is reduced on artificial surfaces.
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If grass pitches had been shown to have more injuries (the number of injuries on grass and AGPs is broadly the same, as it happens), would people be calling to ban grass pitches?

And with most injuries happening in the tackle/contact area, should we ban contact as well?

The line about Hartley playing in the game despite knowing he was already carrying a knee problem is also interesting.
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Points: 4481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 21:00
Originally posted by Onion Hawk Onion Hawk wrote:


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/staggering-amount-of-injuries-on-4g-pitches-compared-to-grass-1.3641369

<span style='display: inline !imant; : none; : transparent; color: rgb68, 68, 68; font-family: Georgia,"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size: 16.8px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-trans: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;'>It said that for that season 608 injuries were recorded on grass, 170 on artificial surfaces. With just three pitches the exposure to plastic was less, but returned injury rates of 129.1 per 1,000 hours compared to the grass rate of 89.6 per 1,000 hours, the total hours representing 25 matches. The average severity for match injuries on grass was 32 days, compared with 37 days for artificial turf.</span>

So despite taking the proverbial out of Hartley, there are studies that suggest in our game the number of injuries and severity is increased on artificial pitches.  However, I've found studies based on football that suggest the amount of injuries is reduced on artificial surfaces.



Really, considering the FA has stopped the proliferation of artificial surfaces I am surprised. I thought there was particular concern over leg injuries for younger players in their formative years.
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Points: 6433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 08:59
The FA permits AGPs below a certain level - at which I'm quite sure there are a lot of 'younger' players.
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Fat Albert View Drop Down
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Points: 1967 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fat Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 09:23
Originally posted by Onion Hawk Onion Hawk wrote:

However, I've found studies based on football that suggest the amount of injuries is reduced on artificial surfaces.
Shirely this down to how much less comfortable it is roll over and over holding your knee/ankle/pinkie on a plastic pitch...
a Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
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Points: 1665 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 09:36
Even the papers get it wrong. Rugby is only played on 3G pitches.  Larger numbers refer to Mobile data.
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Points: 6433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 09:59
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Even the papers get it wrong. Rugby is only played on 3G pitches.  Larger numbers refer to Mobile data.

I once used that fact (in tongue-in-cheek fashion) on someone who was banging-on about 4g and 5g pitches. It went straight over his head.
Almost as if there was no signal.
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Originally posted by Mark Smith Mark Smith wrote:

If grass pitches had been shown to have more injuries (the number of injuries on grass and AGPs is broadly the same, as it happens), would people be calling to ban grass pitches?

And with most injuries happening in the tackle/contact area, should we ban contact as well?

The line about Hartley playing in the game despite knowing he was already carrying a knee problem is also interesting.
 
Mark, you should be a politician with your selective facts!  Do you work for someone who has an artificial pitch?
 
The report says the number of injuries on grass and artificial pitches is the same but the point it actually makes is that the severity and burden of those injuries are noticeably greater on artificial pitches (nearly a third higher).  As for contact, WR are looking at the Laws to minimise the danger in this area of the game (whether the measures they are considering actually have the intended effect is another issue) and the injury problems around the tackle are also considered in the report I refer to above.
 
It is noticeable that Gloucester players were consulted when Kingsholm's pitch was replaced and they came out in favour of grass rather then the artificial pitch favoured by the management who wanted to maximise alternative uses for the ground.
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backrowb View Drop Down
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Points: 1665 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 11:40
Originally posted by PlangentThrowback PlangentThrowback wrote:

Mark, you should be a politician with your selective facts!  Do you work for someone who has an artificial pitch?
 
 WinkWink
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donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Fat Albert Fat Albert wrote:

Originally posted by Onion Hawk Onion Hawk wrote:

However, I've found studies based on football that suggest the amount of injuries is reduced on artificial surfaces.
Shirely this down to how much less comfortable it is roll over and over holding your knee/ankle/pinkie on a plastic pitch...


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Kimbo View Drop Down
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Points: 6433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 16:14
Originally posted by Fat Albert Fat Albert wrote:

Originally posted by Onion Hawk Onion Hawk wrote:

However, I've found studies based on football that suggest the amount of injuries is reduced on artificial surfaces.
Shirely this down to how much less comfortable it is roll over and over holding your knee/ankle/pinkie on a plastic pitch...

I know. Big girls ain't they?
However, my EFL club (who obviously play on that lovely natural grass stuff) have had six season-ending knee injuries in the last three seasons.
Makes you wonder if the players would have actually survived had they happened on that nasty, vicious artificial stuff, eh?
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Brizzer View Drop Down
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For me it is what injuries (if any) are caused by an unnatural surface compared to a natural, grass pitch. I.e. if everything being equal would the player have been injured?
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Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Fat Albert Fat Albert wrote:

Originally posted by Onion Hawk Onion Hawk wrote:

However, I've found studies based on football that suggest the amount of injuries is reduced on artificial surfaces.
Shirely this down to how much less comfortable it is roll over and over holding your knee/ankle/pinkie on a plastic pitch...

I know. Big girls ain't they?
However, my EFL club (who obviously play on that lovely natural grass stuff) have had six season-ending knee injuries in the last three seasons.
Makes you wonder if the players would have actually survived had they happened on that nasty, vicious artificial stuff, eh?

I am not sure about the lower leagues but in the Premier League they have Desso Grass pitches which are far superior to the rubber crumb type of 3G pitches.  Of course it is all down to money as I believe the Desso pitches cost a million each.
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Points: 6433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2019 at 11:12
An AGP, installed from scratch, by a reputable company, will cost a lot more than a hybrid (and the latter may not stand up to weekly shared use very well as it's still basically a grass surface, on dirt, with some reinforcement built-in).
Cov went the full 3g route as it would probably work out slightly cheaper in the long run, and would generate much more cash while avoiding the need to beg, borrow, and hire training facilities.
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