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Clive Norling 
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Joined: 06 Mar 2018
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 Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 09:58 |
 Sid James wrote:
Clive Norling wrote:
Full Bodied Red wrote:
Agree entirely. Much improvement by Hull Ionians. Couldn't understand the enormous penalty count and 3 yellows against them. Seemed as if different sanctions applied at the breakdown, offsides and high tackles.
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Well played Hull Ionians today, we certainly didn't take you lightly and the team were told, this game is as important as last weeks against Richmond ....
However, as an ex referee who was wired up to the referee and heard everything he said, my observations on the 3 x YC given against yourselves ....
1) Attacking driving maul by RAMS, the referee calls out your 7 and tells him get out of there, presumably in offside, the maul goes to ground and the referee gives a PT, having identified the offending player, by law, he has to YC him ...
2) RAMS attacking just outside the HI 22 metre line, RAMS throw a pass to a winger in space, the ball is knocked on by HI, again, in law, no real option for the referee, YC given
3) RAMS make a big line break, HI player gets back and catches the RAMS player around the head with force, again, straight forward YC .... this was in contrast to the high tackle against the RAMS scrum half a couple of minutes previously, where there was no line break, the tackle started at chest height and rose upwards, with no force .... penalty only
We wish you all the best in your last 10 games. |
No. 1 was the first offence in our 22. Yes, it may have been a penalty but, penalty try and 1st offence yellow card is a bit officious. No. 2 - deliberate knock down or genuine attempt at interception? No.3 was a high tackle. It was wrong but so was the missed forward pass which preceeded it and brought about the Rams attack.
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1) Correct, clear and obvious forward pass missed by the referee and A/R 2) If you don't make the interception, protocol with the officials is you are likely to be Y/C in the situation 3) A misconception in the 23 years I refereed is that "you didn't give us a warning" ... "it was our first offence" ... "we've only been playing 2 minutes" ... if foul play stops a try PROBABLY (and that is the key word there) being scored, then it's a penalty try, first 10 seconds or last 10 seconds of the game, it's immaterial
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KnightsBoy
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 10:19 |
Clive Norling wrote:
Sid James wrote:
Clive Norling wrote:
Full Bodied Red wrote:
Agree entirely. Much improvement by Hull Ionians. Couldn't understand the enormous penalty count and 3 yellows against them. Seemed as if different sanctions applied at the breakdown, offsides and high tackles.
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Well played Hull Ionians today, we certainly didn't take you lightly and the team were told, this game is as important as last weeks against Richmond ....
However, as an ex referee who was wired up to the referee and heard everything he said, my observations on the 3 x YC given against yourselves ....
1) Attacking driving maul by RAMS, the referee calls out your 7 and tells him get out of there, presumably in offside, the maul goes to ground and the referee gives a PT, having identified the offending player, by law, he has to YC him ...
2) RAMS attacking just outside the HI 22 metre line, RAMS throw a pass to a winger in space, the ball is knocked on by HI, again, in law, no real option for the referee, YC given
3) RAMS make a big line break, HI player gets back and catches the RAMS player around the head with force, again, straight forward YC .... this was in contrast to the high tackle against the RAMS scrum half a couple of minutes previously, where there was no line break, the tackle started at chest height and rose upwards, with no force .... penalty only
We wish you all the best in your last 10 games. |
No. 1 was the first offence in our 22. Yes, it may have been a penalty but, penalty try and 1st offence yellow card is a bit officious. No. 2 - deliberate knock down or genuine attempt at interception? No.3 was a high tackle. It was wrong but so was the missed forward pass which preceeded it and brought about the Rams attack.
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1) Correct, clear and obvious forward pass missed by the referee and A/R
2) If you don't make the interception, protocol with the officials is you are likely to be Y/C in the situation
3) A misconception in the 23 years I refereed is that "you didn't give us a warning" ... "it was our first offence" ... "we've only been playing 2 minutes" ... if foul play stops a try PROBABLY (and that is the key word there) being scored, then it's a penalty try, first 10 seconds or last 10 seconds of the game, it's immaterial |
That is correct Clive, but what really frustrates the fan on the terrace is the inconsistency among the decisions. Not just at our level but so called International Refs are too inconsistent when making their decision.
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Pappashanga
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Joined: 23 Sep 2014
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 12:16 |
Mond 51 Bishops Stortford 10 I thought BS put in an enormous amount of effort and enterprise for 70 minutes, then ran out of gas. Lineouts good for most of the game, then the hooker started throwing too far to be caught four times by the Mond hooker. Apart from a ludicrous multi reset scrum late on the scrums were fine, with Mond mostly having the edge. BS's strength is in their lively backs, but apart from an initial excellent try, they were tackled out of it. Compared with a Mond 18-17 win in October, a gap has opened up between the teams. Mond playing attacking rugby but maintaining by far the best defence in this league. An examination of the current league points difference is the best barometer of this. Another encouraging sign is the increased crowd numbers. Nearly 900 playing a team fairly low down in the table shows increased interest. I just hope this continues.
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pappashanga
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Clive Norling
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Joined: 06 Mar 2018
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 13:01 |
KnightsBoy wrote:
Clive Norling wrote:
Sid James wrote:
Clive Norling wrote:
Full Bodied Red wrote:
Agree entirely. Much improvement by Hull Ionians. Couldn't understand the enormous penalty count and 3 yellows against them. Seemed as if different sanctions applied at the breakdown, offsides and high tackles.
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Well played Hull Ionians today, we certainly didn't take you lightly and the team were told, this game is as important as last weeks against Richmond ....
However, as an ex referee who was wired up to the referee and heard everything he said, my observations on the 3 x YC given against yourselves ....
1) Attacking driving maul by RAMS, the referee calls out your 7 and tells him get out of there, presumably in offside, the maul goes to ground and the referee gives a PT, having identified the offending player, by law, he has to YC him ...
2) RAMS attacking just outside the HI 22 metre line, RAMS throw a pass to a winger in space, the ball is knocked on by HI, again, in law, no real option for the referee, YC given
3) RAMS make a big line break, HI player gets back and catches the RAMS player around the head with force, again, straight forward YC .... this was in contrast to the high tackle against the RAMS scrum half a couple of minutes previously, where there was no line break, the tackle started at chest height and rose upwards, with no force .... penalty only
We wish you all the best in your last 10 games. |
No. 1 was the first offence in our 22. Yes, it may have been a penalty but, penalty try and 1st offence yellow card is a bit officious. No. 2 - deliberate knock down or genuine attempt at interception? No.3 was a high tackle. It was wrong but so was the missed forward pass which preceeded it and brought about the Rams attack.
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1) Correct, clear and obvious forward pass missed by the referee and A/R
2) If you don't make the interception, protocol with the officials is you are likely to be Y/C in the situation
3) A misconception in the 23 years I refereed is that "you didn't give us a warning" ... "it was our first offence" ... "we've only been playing 2 minutes" ... if foul play stops a try PROBABLY (and that is the key word there) being scored, then it's a penalty try, first 10 seconds or last 10 seconds of the game, it's immaterial |
That is correct Clive, but what really frustrates the fan on the terrace is the inconsistency among the decisions. Not just at our level but so called International Refs are too inconsistent when making their decision. |
KnightsBoy ... yes, I can understand the frustration from fans/supporters ... all I can say is the referee department works as hard as they can with resources available to cascade down interpretation/application of law in set instances but there will always be variables because of the fact you don't have robots officiating ... as regards Test matches, don't even get me started on that but if you believe the BEST 10 referees were at the World Cup, I'm afraid you would be mistaken ....
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Alderman
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 13:57 |
Clive Norling wrote:
KnightsBoy wrote:
[QUOTE=Clive Norling] [QUOTE=Sid James] [QUOTE=Clive Norling] [QUOTE=Full Bodied Red] Agree entirely. Much improvement by Hull Ionians. Couldn't understand the enormous penalty count and 3 yellows against them. Seemed as if different sanctions applied at the breakdown, offsides and high tackles.
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KnightsBoy ... yes, I can understand the frustration from fans/supporters ... all I can say is the referee department works as hard as they can with resources available to cascade down interpretation/application of law in set instances but there will always be variables because of the fact you don't have robots officiating ... as regards Test matches, don't even get me started on that but if you believe the BEST 10 referees were at the World Cup, I'm afraid you would be mistaken .... |
Out of interest, which referees do you think should have made the top 10
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Sid James
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 15:52 |
Clive Norling wrote:
Sid James wrote:
Clive Norling wrote:
Full Bodied Red wrote:
Agree entirely. Much improvement by Hull Ionians. Couldn't understand the enormous penalty count and 3 yellows against them. Seemed as if different sanctions applied at the breakdown, offsides and high tackles.
|
Well played Hull Ionians today, we certainly didn't take you lightly and the team were told, this game is as important as last weeks against Richmond ....
However, as an ex referee who was wired up to the referee and heard everything he said, my observations on the 3 x YC given against yourselves ....
1) Attacking driving maul by RAMS, the referee calls out your 7 and tells him get out of there, presumably in offside, the maul goes to ground and the referee gives a PT, having identified the offending player, by law, he has to YC him ...
2) RAMS attacking just outside the HI 22 metre line, RAMS throw a pass to a winger in space, the ball is knocked on by HI, again, in law, no real option for the referee, YC given
3) RAMS make a big line break, HI player gets back and catches the RAMS player around the head with force, again, straight forward YC .... this was in contrast to the high tackle against the RAMS scrum half a couple of minutes previously, where there was no line break, the tackle started at chest height and rose upwards, with no force .... penalty only
We wish you all the best in your last 10 games. |
No. 1 was the first offence in our 22. Yes, it may have been a penalty but, penalty try and 1st offence yellow card is a bit officious. No. 2 - deliberate knock down or genuine attempt at interception? No.3 was a high tackle. It was wrong but so was the missed forward pass which preceeded it and brought about the Rams attack.
|
1) Correct, clear and obvious forward pass missed by the referee and A/R
2) If you don't make the interception, protocol with the officials is you are likely to be Y/C in the situation
3) A misconception in the 23 years I refereed is that "you didn't give us a warning" ... "it was our first offence" ... "we've only been playing 2 minutes" ... if foul play stops a try PROBABLY (and that is the key word there) being scored, then it's a penalty try, first 10 seconds or last 10 seconds of the game, it's immaterial |
Clive, You appear to have points 1) & 3) the other way around but, I don't disagree with your comments. How the 3 officials can be the only ones to miss an obvious forward pass is a weekly mystery to me and, I'm sorry but the better ref's are the better ref's because they have some feel for the game. They don't just hide behind the laws and take the easy option.
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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Onion Hawk
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 15:53 |
No issues with any of our yellows more with the yellows he could and should have fished out to RAMS.
I personally believe their high tackle deserved a yellow and one of their players came round very deliberately offside at a ruck 5 metres from their line to kill the ball when we’d made a break and had them scrambling. Yellow every day in my book.
He wasn’t managing offsides. We tested him less than RAMS on this front so maybe we are guilty of being naive and giving your midfield than yours gave ours.
The right team won but by more than they deserved in my opinion.
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Sid James
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 16:05 |
Onion Hawk wrote:
No issues with any of our yellows more with the yellows he could and should have fished out to RAMS.
I personally believe their high tackle deserved a yellow and one of their players came round very deliberately offside at a ruck 5 metres from their line to kill the ball when we’d made a break and had them scrambling. Yellow every day in my book.
He wasn’t managing offsides. We tested him less than RAMS on this front so maybe we are guilty of being naive and giving your midfield than yours gave ours.
The right team won but by more than they deserved in my opinion. |
Mr Allat's inconsistency was the most consistent part of his performance yesterday but, he did recieve no help at all from his assistants. One example: I was directly behind one of his assistants who was looking down the Rams defensive line. One of the Rams players was at least a yard in front of his team mates and blatantly offside.The refs assistant did nothing. Why are the three officials 'miked up' if the 'assistants' (I use the word loosely) aren't prepared to assist the ref?
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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upnorthcombine
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Posted: 26 Jan 2020 at 20:32 |
Sid James wrote:
Onion Hawk wrote:
No issues with any of our yellows more with the yellows he could and should have fished out to RAMS.
I personally believe their high tackle deserved a yellow and one of their players came round very deliberately offside at a ruck 5 metres from their line to kill the ball when we’d made a break and had them scrambling. Yellow every day in my book.
He wasn’t managing offsides. We tested him less than RAMS on this front so maybe we are guilty of being naive and giving your midfield than yours gave ours.
The right team won but by more than they deserved in my opinion. |
Mr Allat's inconsistency was the most consistent part of his performance yesterday but, he did recieve no help at all from his assistants. One example: I was directly behind one of his assistants who was looking down the Rams defensive line. One of the Rams players was at least a yard in front of his team mates and blatantly offside.The refs assistant did nothing. Why are the three officials 'miked up' if the 'assistants' (I use the word loosely) aren't prepared to assist the ref? |
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