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Premiership II plans announced
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peakcotrain View Drop Down
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Points: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peakcotrain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2025 at 21:35
Where have you heard that Wasps are recruiting?

Edited by peakcotrain - 02 Jan 2025 at 21:36
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Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Why does Wasps have to be in a 16 team Championship?

Richmond, Rams, Plymouth, Moseley plus the existing 12, makes 16?


No Rotherham 


You could add Rotherham if you like … I quoted Plymouth & Moseley as they are both ex 1st class clubs who had extensive fixture lists in the past and both clubs want to return to that level if they can and both of them have large stands that can seat hundreds of spectators …. Rotherham also probably want to return to the elite end of the game and having refereed their first ever game in The Premiership, I know how much it means to them ….


My point is you need teams to compete with each other rather than fill a league. You are more likely to compete if you have a following, as people bring money.


At this moment in time, looking at their FB group, they have about 31 people following them …. even when they were established at Adams Park, their average crowd for run of the mill Premiership games was not above 5 figures …
Please do not buy into this notion that a revamped Wasps “team” is going to attract thousands of people to watch them play … whenever and wherever that is ….


You are getting too hung up on Wasps here, it could be Worcester (still based in Worcester), Jersey, etc.

I don't see sticking 4 from ND1 like Richmond, who were always at the bottom or bouncing between the 2 leagues with no interest in growing or some of the other adding to the overall competitiveness of the league next season.
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Points: 364 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2025 at 22:59
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Why does Wasps have to be in a 16 team Championship?

Richmond, Rams, Plymouth, Moseley plus the existing 12, makes 16?


No Rotherham 


You could add Rotherham if you like … I quoted Plymouth & Moseley as they are both ex 1st class clubs who had extensive fixture lists in the past and both clubs want to return to that level if they can and both of them have large stands that can seat hundreds of spectators …. Rotherham also probably want to return to the elite end of the game and having refereed their first ever game in The Premiership, I know how much it means to them ….


My point is you need teams to compete with each other rather than fill a league. You are more likely to compete if you have a following, as people bring money.


At this moment in time, looking at their FB group, they have about 31 people following them …. even when they were established at Adams Park, their average crowd for run of the mill Premiership games was not above 5 figures …
Please do not buy into this notion that a revamped Wasps “team” is going to attract thousands of people to watch them play … whenever and wherever that is ….



You are getting too hung up on Wasps here, it could be Worcester (still based in Worcester), Jersey, etc.

I don't see sticking 4 from ND1 like Richmond, who were always at the bottom or bouncing between the 2 leagues with no interest in growing or some of the other adding to the overall competitiveness of the league next season.


Mmmmmm …. ok, I’ll accept that it could be Worcester, London Irish or Jersey to humour you …. “overall competitiveness” well with the greatest respect to in no particular order Scottish (when they are shorn of their Quins players) Caldy, Cambridge & Ampthill (when they are shorn of their Saracens players) are not that competitive with the likes of Ealing, Bedford, Doncaster, Hartpury etc etc ….. you also do an injustice to Plymouth, Rotherham, Moseley and Rams who are all interested in growing ……
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Points: 4259 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 09:38
Please forget the Cup idea! National League Clubs have made it clear that we don't want a Cup competition. 13 guaranteed home fixtures is what we want and what we get from 14-team leagues!
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Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Why does Wasps have to be in a 16 team Championship?

Richmond, Rams, Plymouth, Moseley plus the existing 12, makes 16?


No Rotherham 


You could add Rotherham if you like … I quoted Plymouth & Moseley as they are both ex 1st class clubs who had extensive fixture lists in the past and both clubs want to return to that level if they can and both of them have large stands that can seat hundreds of spectators …. Rotherham also probably want to return to the elite end of the game and having refereed their first ever game in The Premiership, I know how much it means to them ….


My point is you need teams to compete with each other rather than fill a league. You are more likely to compete if you have a following, as people bring money.


At this moment in time, looking at their FB group, they have about 31 people following them …. even when they were established at Adams Park, their average crowd for run of the mill Premiership games was not above 5 figures …
Please do not buy into this notion that a revamped Wasps “team” is going to attract thousands of people to watch them play … whenever and wherever that is ….



You are getting too hung up on Wasps here, it could be Worcester (still based in Worcester), Jersey, etc.

I don't see sticking 4 from ND1 like Richmond, who were always at the bottom or bouncing between the 2 leagues with no interest in growing or some of the other adding to the overall competitiveness of the league next season.


Mmmmmm …. ok, I’ll accept that it could be Worcester, London Irish or Jersey to humour you …. “overall competitiveness” well with the greatest respect to in no particular order Scottish (when they are shorn of their Quins players) Caldy, Cambridge & Ampthill (when they are shorn of their Saracens players) are not that competitive with the likes of Ealing, Bedford, Doncaster, Hartpury etc etc ….. you also do an injustice to Plymouth, Rotherham, Moseley and Rams who are all interested in growing ……

A fair point re the disparity between some of the existing Championship clubs, it's far more stark than in National 1.

Do you, or anyone on here, know whether Rams, Albion or Moseley have heard anything about their applications to Prem 2 as I saw some posters state that Richmond, Sale and DMP have all heard that they had been turned down?

I would have thought that Rosslyn Park would have put their name in the hat too.
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I don't think DMP have applied to join 
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Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Why does Wasps have to be in a 16 team Championship?

Richmond, Rams, Plymouth, Moseley plus the existing 12, makes 16?


No Rotherham 


You could add Rotherham if you like … I quoted Plymouth & Moseley as they are both ex 1st class clubs who had extensive fixture lists in the past and both clubs want to return to that level if they can and both of them have large stands that can seat hundreds of spectators …. Rotherham also probably want to return to the elite end of the game and having refereed their first ever game in The Premiership, I know how much it means to them ….

The trouble with this is that you are in effect suggesting what the RFU are doing namely inviting clubs to join the new set-up. If places are available why not simply invite those who finish in the top places in NL1? So what if they don't have a top-level history (like Rams!) if they earn their place due to their on-field performances then they should be welcomed. That should be the way sport works.
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Points: 364 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2025 at 11:49
Originally posted by Nat1 Nat1 wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by KnightsBoy KnightsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Why does Wasps have to be in a 16 team Championship?

Richmond, Rams, Plymouth, Moseley plus the existing 12, makes 16?


No Rotherham 


You could add Rotherham if you like … I quoted Plymouth & Moseley as they are both ex 1st class clubs who had extensive fixture lists in the past and both clubs want to return to that level if they can and both of them have large stands that can seat hundreds of spectators …. Rotherham also probably want to return to the elite end of the game and having refereed their first ever game in The Premiership, I know how much it means to them ….


My point is you need teams to compete with each other rather than fill a league. You are more likely to compete if you have a following, as people bring money.


At this moment in time, looking at their FB group, they have about 31 people following them …. even when they were established at Adams Park, their average crowd for run of the mill Premiership games was not above 5 figures …
Please do not buy into this notion that a revamped Wasps “team” is going to attract thousands of people to watch them play … whenever and wherever that is ….



You are getting too hung up on Wasps here, it could be Worcester (still based in Worcester), Jersey, etc.

I don't see sticking 4 from ND1 like Richmond, who were always at the bottom or bouncing between the 2 leagues with no interest in growing or some of the other adding to the overall competitiveness of the league next season.


Mmmmmm …. ok, I’ll accept that it could be Worcester, London Irish or Jersey to humour you …. “overall competitiveness” well with the greatest respect to in no particular order Scottish (when they are shorn of their Quins players) Caldy, Cambridge & Ampthill (when they are shorn of their Saracens players) are not that competitive with the likes of Ealing, Bedford, Doncaster, Hartpury etc etc ….. you also do an injustice to Plymouth, Rotherham, Moseley and Rams who are all interested in growing ……


A fair point re the disparity between some of the existing Championship clubs, it's far more stark than in National 1.

Do you, or anyone on here, know whether Rams, Albion or Moseley have heard anything about their applications to Prem 2 as I saw some posters state that Richmond, Sale and DMP have all heard that they had been turned down?

I would have thought that Rosslyn Park would have put their name in the hat too.



Allegedly we were told BEFORE the end of December …. we await the decision
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I would take issue with the assertion that Richmond don't want to grow. That misunderstands the club's position. They are currently undertaking a major growth programme starting with concentration on the financials - i.e. increasing revenue sources. That will hopefully lead to improvement in facilities and further financial growth from those.

If by 'growth' you mean taking part in the annual scrum to get a half dozen half decent Championship level players as the spine of a squad that ends up costing more money than the club brings in so they have to depend on rich people to keep the club solvent, then no, Richmond are "not interested in growing". 

But if by 'growth' you mean playing at the highest level they are capable of and attracting better and better players to build squad depth from having excellent facilities, training/S&C, jobs and career support, an annual tour to somewhere fun (Japan this year) with 50 players involved, then yes Richmond are definitely interested in growth.

Richmond beat every club in the Championship at least once (except the relegated Prem clubs) during their five seasons there. They reached 6th at one point after the halfway mark in the season (can't remember which one off the top of my head) and were three points off being fourth at that time, then had a dreadful run-in because of injuries and also amateur players having to fulfil work commitments. Creating squad depth to counter those factors is what Richmond means by 'growth', not creating unsustainable businesses reliant on 'investors' who ought properly to be called 'donors'. Richmond has heard that song before. 

 
Broken down. Beyond repair.
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Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

I would take issue with the assertion that Richmond don't want to grow. That misunderstands the club's position. They are currently undertaking a major growth programme starting with concentration on the financials - i.e. increasing revenue sources. That will hopefully lead to improvement in facilities and further financial growth from those.

If by 'growth' you mean taking part in the annual scrum to get a half dozen half decent Championship level players as the spine of a squad that ends up costing more money than the club brings in so they have to depend on rich people to keep the club solvent, then no, Richmond are "not interested in growing". 

But if by 'growth' you mean playing at the highest level they are capable of and attracting better and better players to build squad depth from having excellent facilities, training/S&C, jobs and career support, an annual tour to somewhere fun (Japan this year) with 50 players involved, then yes Richmond are definitely interested in growth.

Richmond beat every club in the Championship at least once (except the relegated Prem clubs) during their five seasons there. They reached 6th at one point after the halfway mark in the season (can't remember which one off the top of my head) and were three points off being fourth at that time, then had a dreadful run-in because of injuries and also amateur players having to fulfil work commitments. Creating squad depth to counter those factors is what Richmond means by 'growth', not creating unsustainable businesses reliant on 'investors' who ought properly to be called 'donors'. Richmond has heard that song before. 

 


I think the saying you’re looking for is “once bitten, twice shy” …. In their day, they were filled with superstars, they outgrew The Athletic ground, moved to Madjeski Stadium, from what I remember, had good crowds and then Ashley Levett pulled the money …. I refereed their last ever home game in The Premiership, it was like a funeral and the crowd was embarrassing small …. I don’t think people associated with Richmond will ever forget or forgive and I would say they have no intention of going anywhere near that scenario ever again ….
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Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:


You are getting too hung up on Wasps here, it could be Worcester (still based in Worcester), Jersey, etc.


Jersey is included speculatively on lists like this every so often, which usually prompts me to feel the need to put the record straight.

A quick summary: the professional arm (Jersey Reds) separated from the rest of Jersey RFC in summer 2022; From that point JRFC's amateur side entered the league pyramid at level 7; the Reds went on to win the Championship a year later, but had folded by the end of September and there's no such entity any more; JRFC won level 7, then level 6, and are now going well in 2nd place at level 5; but not favourites to go up with London Welsh yet to drop a point, and not paying players at all - shades of the 'once bitten' maxim mentioned above in relation to Richmond, which is also in play here. So any tales of Jersey ambitions to seek some sort of fast-track route back to the Championship are tall ones!
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Originally posted by Breakdown Breakdown wrote:

I would take issue with the assertion that Richmond don't want to grow. That misunderstands the club's position. They are currently undertaking a major growth programme starting with concentration on the financials - i.e. increasing revenue sources. That will hopefully lead to improvement in facilities and further financial growth from those.

If by 'growth' you mean taking part in the annual scrum to get a half dozen half decent Championship level players as the spine of a squad that ends up costing more money than the club brings in so they have to depend on rich people to keep the club solvent, then no, Richmond are "not interested in growing". 

But if by 'growth' you mean playing at the highest level they are capable of and attracting better and better players to build squad depth from having excellent facilities, training/S&C, jobs and career support, an annual tour to somewhere fun (Japan this year) with 50 players involved, then yes Richmond are definitely interested in growth.

Richmond beat every club in the Championship at least once (except the relegated Prem clubs) during their five seasons there. They reached 6th at one point after the halfway mark in the season (can't remember which one off the top of my head) and were three points off being fourth at that time, then had a dreadful run-in because of injuries and also amateur players having to fulfil work commitments. Creating squad depth to counter those factors is what Richmond means by 'growth', not creating unsustainable businesses reliant on 'investors' who ought properly to be called 'donors'. Richmond has heard that song before. 

 

That approach is far too sensible to appeal to those seemingly only interested in steering English professional rugby into oblivion.

(Whilst enhancing their own personal bank balances of course).
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I thought next season was to be 14, with 26/27 going to 16.
But I have no idea if that has actually been confirmed.


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https://www.swrugby.co.uk/forms/prom.pdf

Might not work, but if not click on Promotion/Relegation....then here in text.


Edited by WILD BOAR 1 - 4 hours 37 minutes ago at 15:02
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I think that is a typo.
It assumes 1 up to the Championship and none down.
Which with one phoenix side would take the Championship to 14.


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Yeah, probably unless they are going resurrect three 'Pheonix' teams....who knows??
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Originally posted by WILD BOAR 1 WILD BOAR 1 wrote:

https://www.swrugby.co.uk/forms/prom.pdf

Might not work, but if not click on Promotion/Relegation....then here in text.

the link doesn't work...
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https://www.swrugby.co.uk/forms/prom.pdf
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The usual problem, the copied text included a trailing space ad when it got converted that became %20 and the link did not work. It happens on a lot of boards.
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