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Grass roots stirring

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cheshire exile View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2025 at 21:12
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Happy to be disabused, but I understand that Championship clubs have not been included in the circulation.

I assume that the Sedgley Park meeting is in the morning so the bits can get back home after an overnight stay.

7 afternoon meetings is a bit strange, unless planned to be inconvenient. 

Precicely my point.

It really does feel like they're scheduling it to be deliberately awkward to try and dissuade club reps turning up to speak and/or vote.

There certainly won’t be any players or coaches involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nat1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2025 at 12:44
I was looking at club programmes for today's Nat 1 games and came across this excerpt from the head of Rams. It's a clear and simple suggestion for a sensible way forward with the RFU and struck a chord with me:

This leads me to comment on the continuing discontent in English rugby, with the looming possibility of an SGM calling for the head of CEO, Bill Sweeney.

The problem we have is a lot of people think it’s a case of bad apple – it’s actually a bad barrel.

We need to sort the barrel out – that’s the structure – and allow clubs to believe they’re being heard.

When they’re being represented by a 62-person committee, they don’t feel like they are, don’t feel close to it.

What we need to do is reduce the committee, which holds the executive to account, and make it more accountable to the people who are running the grassroots of the sport – (chairman) Andy (Lynch) and I believe we need to stop calling for people’s heads and look at the structure.

There is a review underway which has been set in place by the Council – we’d have preferred it to be independent rather than instigated by them and a sense they’ll be marking their own homework – but we’d like to see 12 regions, each with a representative onto a national council which represents the members and holds the executive to account.

That way clubs will know who their representative is, and they can lobby directly to them to get change. I think it would make a big difference to the game.

There can be sub-committees for aspects of the sport like refereeing, pro, facilities, laws etc, and people can be invited onto those before feeding into the 12.

In short, we need to get rid of something which is so outdated nobody in their right mind would have designed this structure – the RFU turns over around £200m and we’ve got a 62-person committee in a mutual organisation running it as the game tries to continue becoming more professional. It’s crazy.

https://www.ramsrugby.com/news/programme-notes-from-the-ceo-2896166.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmalc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 13:57
Fair comment - those at the top don't want to change. It reminds me of a comment about the NHS which suggested that the management team don't want the structure to change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breakdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 26 minutes ago at 17:32
Originally posted by Nat1 Nat1 wrote:

I was looking at club programmes for today's Nat 1 games and came across this excerpt from the head of Rams. It's a clear and simple suggestion for a sensible way forward with the RFU and struck a chord with me:

This leads me to comment on the continuing discontent in English rugby, with the looming possibility of an SGM calling for the head of CEO, Bill Sweeney.

The problem we have is a lot of people think it’s a case of bad apple – it’s actually a bad barrel.

We need to sort the barrel out – that’s the structure – and allow clubs to believe they’re being heard.

When they’re being represented by a 62-person committee, they don’t feel like they are, don’t feel close to it.

What we need to do is reduce the committee, which holds the executive to account, and make it more accountable to the people who are running the grassroots of the sport – (chairman) Andy (Lynch) and I believe we need to stop calling for people’s heads and look at the structure.

There is a review underway which has been set in place by the Council – we’d have preferred it to be independent rather than instigated by them and a sense they’ll be marking their own homework – but we’d like to see 12 regions, each with a representative onto a national council which represents the members and holds the executive to account.

That way clubs will know who their representative is, and they can lobby directly to them to get change. I think it would make a big difference to the game.

There can be sub-committees for aspects of the sport like refereeing, pro, facilities, laws etc, and people can be invited onto those before feeding into the 12.

In short, we need to get rid of something which is so outdated nobody in their right mind would have designed this structure – the RFU turns over around £200m and we’ve got a 62-person committee in a mutual organisation running it as the game tries to continue becoming more professional. It’s crazy.

https://www.ramsrugby.com/news/programme-notes-from-the-ceo-2896166.html


Oh, I see, it's the Council that is the problem! There was I thinking the whole flaming thing is the problem. Rams are quite keen to be the 14th team in Tier 2 next season in case they don't win the league (which they are certainly good enough to do), so maybe that's why they don't want to call for anyone's head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 19 minutes ago at 17:39
The council is not the problem, which is not to say that the council system could not be improved.

It is the board that decided to pay themselves six and seven-figure salaries, and to give the Premiership 240 million pounds  - while laying off staff and cutting funding to community clubs.

If the motion is going to carry, it is going to take the CBs to stir up their clubs. Sullying the water, so people think these people are the real issue - helps the board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GTB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 37 minutes ago at 19:21
Breakdown, 
Your suggestion that Rams' CEO and Chairman are taking the position they are because they want to appease the people that decide who goes into Prem 2 is pure speculation and completely unfounded. Especially since they have quite clearly stated that they do not believe Rams deserve to be in Prem 2 if they don't win N1.


Edited by GTB - 20 hours 37 minutes ago at 19:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nat1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 hours 33 minutes ago at 20:25
Yes it seems cynical to me to suggest that a club are appeasing the Twickenham Big Wigs to secure a place in the new league to be launched next season. It actually looks like the Rams hierarchy are outlining a series of constructive and achieveable suggestions for a way forward which has been lacking both on this forum and across English rugby as a whole. 
There's too much of an 'off with his head'! shouting and foot stomping mentality, with little substance/reasoned argument for what follows. Which other club committees have gone public with a sound plan for the future?


Edited by Nat1 - 19 hours 27 minutes ago at 20:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 4 minutes ago at 21:54
Originally posted by Nat1 Nat1 wrote:

Yes it seems cynical to me to suggest that a club are appeasing the Twickenham Big Wigs to secure a place in the new league to be launched next season. It actually looks like the Rams hierarchy are outlining a series of constructive and achieveable suggestions for a way forward which has been lacking both on this forum and across English rugby as a whole. 
There's too much of an 'off with his head'! shouting and foot stomping mentality, with little substance/reasoned argument for what follows. Which other club committees have gone public with a sound plan for the future?

The Championship presented a detailed plan to the RFU, developed with the former head of ECPR.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nat1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 59 minutes ago at 06:59
I saw that this report is 5 years old and was proposed for discussion by just 4 Championship clubs at the time - C Pirates, Coventry, Ealing and L Scottish. We can all agree that lots has changed since then, especially with the effect that Covid had on the game.

I should have been clearer, but what I meant was that during this current dilemma (for want of a better word) which club committees have put their heads above the parapet and publicly laid out their vision for the future with clarity?


Edited by Nat1 - 8 hours 30 minutes ago at 07:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breakdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 40 minutes ago at 10:18
Nat 1, GTB, 

You would be right to suggest I am cynical. 30 years as an active rugby supporter in England is enough to inspire cynicism. If that cynicism led me to make a wrongful assertion, I apologise to Rams, who I think are an excellent club with a great spirit that I enjoy visiting.
It was from a visit this season and conversations on the touchline and in the bar that I gained my view. It may be unrepresentative of the owners/managers of the club and if so, I withdraw the suggestion.
I would stick by my point that the Council are not the (only) problem. Even Council members I have spoken to in the past couple of months think their structure and role is all wrong, but they don't actually make decisions affecting the game unless they are directed to by the Executive and that latter group is therefore the one driving what has been an unfair distribution of resources and operating in their own cynical way towards clubs. 
One simple example: I know that two Nat 1 clubs were turned down for entry into Prem 2 on the basis that they "lacked ambition for growth". In the current environment, I think that translates into "unwilling to risk the future of their entire community-based club on a poorly-planned, underfunded attempt to create a second franchise league in English rugby to prop up the first one". But, as you point out, I am a cynic.



Edited by Breakdown - 5 hours 39 minutes ago at 10:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JZSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 2 minutes ago at 12:56
Seems to me that most of us are agreed that the board are the primary problem exacerbated by the problem of a council made ineffective by its structure.

So yes kicking Sweeney and his trough-dwellers out will be a welcome start but not a total solution to the overall problem. 
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