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Premiership II plans announced
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islander View Drop Down
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Points: 7736 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 18:51
There've been various speculative stories over the years about clubs from the English system going to other leagues. Ealing, London Scottish & London Welsh to the URC, Jersey Reds to France are four of the ones I recall within past decade - don't think any of these were ever that close to being realised...
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Best bit from the BBC piece:

"promising to "introduce an innovative fan ownership model", offering supporters the opportunity to invest in the club."

Deja Vue? 


Edited by FHLH - Yesterday at 19:44
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Is there any example of an investor getting a return in Rugby Union 
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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Points: 4511 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 20:49
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Is there any example of an investor getting a return in Rugby Union 


Only a negative one.
RAID ON
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Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by titans.chris titans.chris wrote:


I can't see Ealing being allowed into Prem 1 so there will be no promotion. There will be some technicality preventing them or they will just loose out to an improved Newcastle side in a playoff. (Cynical I know). 


Which would just intensify the stench.
If (very probable) Ealing win the league, they should be promoted.
No ifs, buts, or playoffs.

Sadly Ealing will always fall foul of the minimum ground capacity regulation which I believe is Ealing's capacity +1.
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Points: 6541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 17 minutes ago at 11:55
Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by titans.chris titans.chris wrote:


I can't see Ealing being allowed into Prem 1 so there will be no promotion. There will be some technicality preventing them or they will just loose out to an improved Newcastle side in a playoff. (Cynical I know). 


Which would just intensify the stench.
If (very probable) Ealing win the league, they should be promoted.
No ifs, buts, or playoffs.

Sadly Ealing will always fall foul of the minimum ground capacity regulation which I believe is Ealing's capacity +1.
Which, of course, should be totally irrelevant.
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Points: 3028 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 2 minutes ago at 12:10
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by titans.chris titans.chris wrote:


I can't see Ealing being allowed into Prem 1 so there will be no promotion. There will be some technicality preventing them or they will just loose out to an improved Newcastle side in a playoff. (Cynical I know). 


Which would just intensify the stench.
If (very probable) Ealing win the league, they should be promoted.
No ifs, buts, or playoffs.

Sadly Ealing will always fall foul of the minimum ground capacity regulation which I believe is Ealing's capacity +1.
Which, of course, should be totally irrelevant.

Here Here well said Kimbo
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However, the requirements for the URC are not as strict.

So theoretically, a revived London Irish - should one ever come to pass - could sub-let from Ealing and play URC and European matches there, including matches against Premiership opposition.

Mad isn't it.


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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

However, the requirements for the URC are not as strict.

So theoretically, a revived London Irish - should one ever come to pass - could sub-let from Ealing and play URC and European matches there, including matches against Premiership opposition.

Mad isn't it.



What are the requirements for the URC, particularly around ground capacity?

A quick check on Wikipedia shows that the average attendance at a URC match last season was 11,200. Over 3 times that of even a bumper sell out Championship match in England, to say nothing of an average attendance at a match between two part time sides.

What should the magic number for minimum ground capacity in top level league rugby in England be? Should there even be a number? Should it be a notional one man and his dog? Many questions.


Edited by Se7en - 9 hours 10 minutes ago at 14:02
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Eight of the stadia are below 10k - but six of those sides have access to larger stadia in the same town.

For example, Glasgow have a 7,000 capacity at Scotstoun, but also use Hamden for the match against Edinburgh.

Apart from the Scarlets match, Ospreys do not seem to have got over 4,000 for a home game.

The Football League, and the Premiership, have a requirement for a capacity of 5,000, but even that is not needed for the first season.
 
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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Eight of the stadia are below 10k - but six of those sides have access to larger stadia in the same town.

For example, Glasgow have a 7,000 capacity at Scotstoun, but also use Hamden for the match against Edinburgh.

Apart from the Scarlets match, Ospreys do not seem to have got over 4,000 for a home game.

The Football League, and the Premiership, have a requirement for a capacity of 5,000, but even that is not needed for the first season.
 

Football is and always will be a very different beast to rugby in this country, and comparisons between the two bear very little relevance for a whole host of reasons.

However, if pressed to come up with a magic number, a minimum of 5,000 capacity in rugby seems fair and sensible to me. Any less does not lend itself to a professional experience/product capable of growing the game.


Edited by Se7en - 7 hours 53 minutes ago at 15:19
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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Eight of the stadia are below 10k - but six of those sides have access to larger stadia in the same town.

For example, Glasgow have a 7,000 capacity at Scotstoun, but also use Hamden for the match against Edinburgh.

Apart from the Scarlets match, Ospreys do not seem to have got over 4,000 for a home game.

The Football League, and the Premiership, have a requirement for a capacity of 5,000, but even that is not needed for the first season.
 

Ospreys have been moving matches to a smaller ground when their match clashes with the soccer. There have been 3 or 4 games at Brewery Field Bridgend.

The Zebre Parma stadium isn't big either.
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Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

However, the requirements for the URC are not as strict.

So theoretically, a revived London Irish - should one ever come to pass - could sub-let from Ealing and play URC and European matches there, including matches against Premiership opposition.

Mad isn't it.




A quick check on Wikipedia shows that the average attendance at a URC match last season was 11,200. Over 3 times that of even a bumper sell out Championship match in England

What should the magic number for minimum ground capacity in top level league rugby in England be? Should there even be a number? Should it be a notional one man and his dog? Many questions.
As we've had 'bumper sell out' matches with in excess of 5200 recently, so that doesn't quite stack up.
However, I agree with the general point. 
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A quick check on Wikipedia shows that the average attendance at a URC match last season was 11,200. Over 3 times that of even a bumper sell out Championship match in England, to say nothing of an average attendance at a match between two part time sides.

[/QUOTE]

That URC number includes South Africa where tickets cost a few quid and there are literally tens of millions of rugby fans.
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For me the focus on an absolute number misses the point, it should be about having good facilities and atmosphere/match experience for players, spectators and tv viewers. Better to have 5,000 in a small atmospheric ground than 7,8,9,10k rattling around in a 30k football stadium. 
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Originally posted by Trailfinder Trailfinder wrote:

For me the focus on an absolute number misses the point, it should be about having good facilities and atmosphere/match experience for players, spectators and tv viewers. Better to have 5,000 in a small atmospheric ground than 7,8,9,10k rattling around in a 30k football stadium. 

Spot on Trailfinder. Bang on the money.
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Evidence of this. Part of a video when Roth played Bristol live on Sky in a top of the table Championship game in 2014 at Clifton Lane.

Far better than any football stadium.





Edited by Rothman2 - 5 hours 26 minutes ago at 17:46
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Originally posted by Paul10 Paul10 wrote:



A quick check on Wikipedia shows that the average attendance at a URC match last season was 11,200. Over 3 times that of even a bumper sell out Championship match in England, to say nothing of an average attendance at a match between two part time sides.


That URC number includes South Africa where tickets cost a few quid and there are literally tens of millions of rugby fans.
[/QUOTE]

And of course Dublin and Limerick.
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Originally posted by Rothman2 Rothman2 wrote:

Evidence of this. Part of a video when Roth played Bristol live on Sky in a top of the table Championship game in 2014 at Clifton Lane.

Far better than any football stadium.




Love this, what strikes me watching the interviews and post game analysis is what a difference the playoffs and promotion/relegation makes. Not only in terms of meaning for players and fans but also for the tv coverage as well, no wonder sky dropped their coverage when the playoffs were removed (which incidentally was because the RFU bunged a few extra quid for a couple of seasons then dramatically dropped the funding), what an own goal by the Champ that was in hindsight. 
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