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DCMS committee on Sports governence.

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Camquin View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 12:59
You can watch proceedings


A lot of waffle from Sweeney and Massie-Taylor.
I am not sure the committee were impressed.
they admitted that premiership businesses were losing £4m a year each before covid. But apparently this was "sustainable".

Definitely sounds like the Prem will reduce to ten sides.
So I assume no promotion from the championship.

Lots of talk of more integration between the two top leagues
No news on how big the Championship will be, or if it will get any more funding.
But I suspect there may end up with no promotion from National 1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 14:13
To get a good view of the Select Committee's reading of the situation, just flip to the last two minutes.....it's classic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rugbychris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 14:20
Epic failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 15:00
Originally posted by rugbychris rugbychris wrote:

Epic failure.

Sweeney took no initiative, Simon Masie-Taylor just blue smoke up their noses 


























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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 15:36
It was good to see the RFU being made to look stupid but what good does that do anyone? Will anything actually happen to improve matters? Of course not. I'm afraid this is just a pointless charade to make politicians look good whilst they actually do nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 15:46
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

You can watch proceedings


A lot of waffle from Sweeney and Massie-Taylor.
I am not sure the committee were impressed.
they admitted that premiership businesses were losing £4m a year each before covid. But apparently this was "sustainable".

Definitely sounds like the Prem will reduce to ten sides.
So I assume no promotion from the championship.

Lots of talk of more integration between the two top leagues
No news on how big the Championship will be, or if it will get any more funding.
But I suspect there may end up with no promotion from National 1.

Thanks for flagging CQ. The 10-team Prem has been discussed a lot in recent months. Key question: when will it go to 10, and how? Would they really relegate a team (Falcons, Bears or Irish) in 6 months' time, when 2 clubs have already gone? Still strikes me that 2024 would be more likely.

Hope you don't mind me asking, as I'm not in position to watch a hearing right now...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 15:57
There was a lot of talk of nobody being able to make Warriors financially viable without P-shares, but nobody asked how the Championship clubs manage.

There was talk of integrating the Championship with the premiership, but no hint of what that meant.
It looks like a ten team Premiership, so expect on relegated team and no promotion this season.

SMT had the gall to say they should get the Championship on TV, when it was the PRL taking over the contract that removed the Championship from TV, not that the lesser clubs ever saw any of the money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 18:18
By the way, what did the Trailfinder's fans make of Ms Huq's performance on committee?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 07:24
Sky Sports News covered the hearing - report via link below...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delamas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 11:58
RFU under fire from MPs over its role in demise of Worcester and Wasps | Rugby Football Union | The Guardian



but Simon Massie-Taylor, the chief executive of Premier Rugby, quietly mentioned at one point the part played by the DCMS, which loaned more than £15m of taxpayers money during the pandemic.


“I don’t think that sends a particularly strong message to the rest of our clubs – that you can go into administration and retain assets while getting rid of liabilities.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 12:37
You've taken that final quote out of context.  That refers to Wasps and Worcester being allowed to keep their 'P' shares.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delamas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 12:43
apologies
not intentional
done for brevity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 13:27
Rugby Football Union chief executive says club owners will face remodelled suitability test

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Chief executive of the Rugby Football Union Bill Sweeney says any prospective owners will face new "ongoing reviews" into their suitability to run clubs.

Sweeney told a Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee the current owners test was "not sufficient."

But he rejected the suggestion that the RFU had been "asleep on the job" over the crises at Wasps and Worcester.

...

Sweeney said the owners test that allowed Warriors owners Jason Whittingham and Colin Goldring to take over the Sixways club was not robust enough.

"They went through a fit and proper persons test in 2018 - that involved a series of background checks into their suitability to be owners and formation of business plans," he said.

"They passed, though their performance has not lived up to their ability to pass those tests."

Asked why the RFU had not acted earlier to look into the running of the club, Sweeney said the true scale of the issue at Worcester "wasn't obvious at the time".

Sweeney confirmed to the committee that there were no previous regular discussions at the RFU over the ongoing performances of owners.

"One of the learnings we have taken from this very sorry episode is a binary, once-off, owners and directors test is not sufficient to prevent bad behaviour and bad management," he said.

"Having ongoing, regular conditional reviews of their performance and suitability is necessary."

Knight revealed he would be writing to the Serious Fraud Office and West Mercia Police Complaints Commission to ask them to investigate following Goldring's claim that he had informed the RFU about being banned from working as a solicitor.

...

Wasps and Worcester to lose right to 'P share'

Following Wasps and Worcester's relegation from the Premiership, attention has focused on the club's rights to hold on to their allocation of revenue generated from the league - the so called 'P share' - worth about £2.5m per club, and about 10% of each club's income.

The inquiry heard earlier from the head of Worcester Warriors Community Foundation, Carol Hart, who said the club "will probably not survive under any ownership" without it, while Worcester MP Robin Walker said there was a "very strong moral case" for the club to retain their share.

However, when asked by the committee whether the stricken clubs would keep their 'P shares', Premiership Rugby chief executive Simon Massie-Taylor said the shares were "not a perpetual right".

He added: "When you get relegated and fail to come up after a second year, those 'P shares' can be acquired off you, so all clubs as part of their shareholder agreement sign up to pre-emption rights where if a club goes into administration, the 'P shares' can be acquired off them by the other clubs.

Massie-Taylor said Wasps and Worcester "knowingly signed up to this" and that he "didn't think that is a particularly strong message to send to the rest of our clubs that essentially you can go into administration and retain assets while getting rid of liabilities".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 13:46
And that just about sums up the moral stance of the MP for Worcester - and others of his ilk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 14:15
Originally posted by Delamas Delamas wrote:

apologies
not intentional
done for brevity
No problem!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 14:16
As I understand, they lose not just the P-Shares, but also the A and B-shares.

The P-Shares only generate £2.5m but the total revenue from PRL is closer to £7m or a third of the club's expenditure. With the funding from RFU is comes close to almost half the expenditure.

Most Premiership clubs only generate about £6m - the remaining £4m is loss funded by their owners - either because they truly love the game, or because they see some future upside from the land.

Or last year, by inflating the value of the PIL share holding to £13 million. Even though PIL has the right to buy them for £9m.

Although people talk of shares in PRL, PRL is owned by PRL Investments Limited (owned in turn by the clubs) and a CVC special purpose company. The shares the clubs hold are in PIL.

The Worcester MP that claimed Worcester had been relegated twice, once with and once without P-shares, possibly misspoke. The current P-shares only date from 2018. There were earlier P=-Shares and before that the parachute payment.
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