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Is this the light at the end of the tunnel? |
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3920 |
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gerg_861 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Location: Ealing Status: Offline Points: 2870 |
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Oncoming train.
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11851 |
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More likely an angler fish. A train would prove there was a way out. The question is what would a Government review do. Unless they are going to force a change, like the regulator being created for Soccer. We could lobby to ave that regulator cover Rugby, I cannot see them setting up a separate regulator. But would that actually help. We know the 57 old farts did not work well, and the omnipotent board does not work. But do we have good ideas of what would work well? If there was a clear path forward, which all the clubs agreed on, then life would be much simpler. |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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rugbychris ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 02 May 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 198 |
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Split the professional and amateur game. Have a representative from each county body running the amateur game. Give more autonomy to each CB to run the game according to the needs of their members.
Let the Exec concentrate on the professional game.
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Rothman2 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Rotherham Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Location: Derby Status: Offline Points: 12265 |
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At what level do you define Amateur Chris?
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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx |
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rugbychris ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 02 May 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 198 |
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That's a good point. Professional in my mind would be full-time contracted players. Part-time would be amateur.
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3920 |
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I think that is coming by way of diverting the vote of no confidence, pro game I think will be Prem 1 & 2, the rest go play with yourselves is the likely scenario.
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JZSmith ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 27 Aug 2024 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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We had MPs getting involved when Sweeney appeared before the Select Committee over two years ago and what good did that do? So this latest intervention is likely to do nothing for the light in the tunnel in my opinion.
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Rothman2 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Rotherham Joined: 20 Jan 2010 Location: Derby Status: Offline Points: 12265 |
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That is why I believe the change needs to come at the top level management, to a body who wants to work with all clubs in order to help them match their ambitions and give those clubs who want to progress, the opportunity to do so. Rugby Chris. Nat 1 is a National semi pro league which, I would say more than half of which, have ambitions to go into the Championship. Once you separate that you are effectively cutting that off which is not acceptable. I am not even sure how many Championship teams are fully professional for that matter. By your definition are they amateur? The problem as I see it, and we have seen elements of this already, with effectively all other leagues below the Prem, where, teams, potentially including the Championship, being used as a means for Premiership teams to send squad players on a dual registration to those clubs, say in the Championship or Nat 1, which stilts those leagues, potentially giving them an unfair advantage over many clubs. Contrary to that, when those same players are recalled back to the parent club, that has the opposite effect. This could lead clubs to a loss of identity, so everyone below the Prem may as well revert to the old Merit tables, just using the Leagues below the Prem as a means to give competitive game time to their top heavy squads. My belief is that is what the Prem clubs want (just my opinion) i.e a closed shop, which might benefit them, but not the game as a whole and certainly not the clubs below the Premiership. To me it would seem as though the Union in this case would be obviating its responsibilities to the other clubs but it is up to the clubs to decide, not to be told what they have to do. Edited by Rothman2 - 7 hours 21 minutes ago at 10:37 |
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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx |
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Halliford ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4275 |
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As someone closely connected with a Nat 1 Club, I don't want a CB to represent us. The CB follows the views of the majority of its Clubs, i.e. Level 8 and below. Those views are dramatically different to the views of Clubs at Levels 3 and 4. We have NLR which has 1 representative on the RFU Council for 52 semi-pro Clubs yet our CB has 2 representatives for 59 Clubs. That is unbalanced.
The Governance and Representation structure needs major changes and the only way to get that change will be to get external views with no connection to the existing Board or Council. The RFGU is promising a Review with i9nitial feedback by July with further consultation after that. We need to see the detail of what is being sought, by whom and what the Terms of Reference will allow the Review to cover.
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tigerburnie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 3920 |
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Leicester Lions have received no squad players from the Premiership, they have and still are playing dual registered academy players.. They did have a scrum half from Coventry last year who was a "squad player", I think he played twice. To my knowledge, some of these academy players have played for other Nat 1 sides and some have had a run out in both Championship sides and in the Championship Cup games, but none have as far as I am aware played in a Premiership game, so not "squad players"
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rugbychris ![]() British and Irish Lion ![]() Joined: 02 May 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 198 |
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Rothman2 - How many teams in the country have the ability to be fully professional and sustainable? None.
Have a league for clubs that want to spend 80% of income on wages and then let the rest of the pyramid compete on a sustainable footing.
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FHLH ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5536 |
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An amateur club is one where income exceeds expenditure.
In the good old days at Cambridge we got by well on: - Player Subscriptions - Match fees (remember them?) to cover laundry and post match sausage & beans - Bar income - Fundraising e.g. monthly discos and Chrisdtmas mega-raffle The only paid employee was a part time bar manager - but only on match days. We had an away coach trip once aa year! No player insurance No player wages No medical attendance We now have: - Players salaries - Coaching staff - Medical - Player insurance - Sponsorship - Gate takings - RFU funding - increased travel expectation / costs Edited by FHLH - 31 minutes ago at 17:27 |
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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FHLH ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5536 |
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To follow up on Amateur / Professional:
Level 1 - Prem - 10 clubs - Fully professional Level 2 - Champ - 12 clubs - Mix of fully professional and semi pro Level 3 - Nat 1 - 14 clubs - all semi pro with perhaps one full time player / coach Level 4 - Nat 2 - 3 x 14 clubs - mostly Semi pro but on match fees 78 clubs with payment of some description (36 to Level 3) Level 5 - Regional 1 - 6 x 12 clubs - I'm sure there's come jobs/houses/travel in there (but only guessing) Level 6 - Regional 2 - 12 x 12 clubs - hopefully amateur Level 7 - Counties 1 - 18 x 12 clubs - surely amateur 432 clubs with amateur bias Level 8, 9, 10,11 - all amateur (haven't counted them yet!) Edited by FHLH - 1 hour 16 minutes ago at 16:42 |
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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cheshire exile ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2554 |
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Too much time on your hands
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FHLH ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5536 |
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Retired former second row
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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FHLH ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5536 |
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Suggestion:
Levels 1 & 2 - 24 clubs as proposed (10 + 14) - inc 1 promotion & 1 relegation - funding 80% 20% Levels 3 & 4 - 56 clubs - 4 x 14 - play off for 1 promotion place London Group Midlands Group Northern Group South Western Group - No DR / loan except full season loan - England players from clubs worldwide, not just Premiership - so include Championship & BUCS for example - does not restrict their future career options - limit full time players in Levels 3 & 4 (or below) say, 2 - compulsory referee training for 2 players / club - reduce bench to 4 - is there room for a Counties Cup? Sounds familiar
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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