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Premiership II plans announced
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JZSmith View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 Aug 2024
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Points: 240 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JZSmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2025 at 12:50
Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Point of correction! Wuss have to clear all rugby creditors by the end of April. They have already paid £9m to DCMS re COVID loan and have to pay the balance of £6m plus HMRC by the end of 2025. 

That is a lot more than many companies pay under English Company Law which allows Directors to close down loss-making businesses, buy the assets at a knock-down price and start trading again straight away.

The difference is that rugby is supposed to be primarily a sport and not a vehicle for a failed businesses to have another go.

You are right that 'rugby' is supposed to be primarily a sport. However, by its very nature, 'professional rugby' is primarily a business.

Without rugby these businesses would not exist so I disagree. 

I don't believe that anyone is saying that professional rugby would exist 'without rugby', rather that the professional clubs are run primarily as businesses.

I'll stick with my original post. 
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Se7en View Drop Down
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Points: 647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2025 at 16:04
Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by JZSmith JZSmith wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Point of correction! Wuss have to clear all rugby creditors by the end of April. They have already paid £9m to DCMS re COVID loan and have to pay the balance of £6m plus HMRC by the end of 2025. 

That is a lot more than many companies pay under English Company Law which allows Directors to close down loss-making businesses, buy the assets at a knock-down price and start trading again straight away.

The difference is that rugby is supposed to be primarily a sport and not a vehicle for a failed businesses to have another go.

You are right that 'rugby' is supposed to be primarily a sport. However, by its very nature, 'professional rugby' is primarily a business.

Without rugby these businesses would not exist so I disagree. 

I don't believe that anyone is saying that professional rugby would exist 'without rugby', rather that the professional clubs are run primarily as businesses.

I'll stick with my original post. 

Confused
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No 7 View Drop Down
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Points: 1939 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote No 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2025 at 16:42
I can recall that the previous ' owners ' acquired assets at the stadium and surrounding area. One asset was the car parking. The whole thing stinks.
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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TeflonTed View Drop Down
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Good afternoon all from Worcester.

New poster here, but not new to being battered around by a lifetime of supporting Wales, and by the last 40 years of living very close to Sixways, and having held season tickets there from the first season they were available. 

Now, like it or not, we're back. We know full well not everyone agrees with what's gone on, and all opinions are heard and respected. All we can ask as supporters is that you will welcome us when we visit, you, as we will certainly welcome you at Sixways.

If you are one of those who thinks we should start at the bottom, then please try and acknowledge the key facts. Our club was broken having been acquired by a pair of cowboys who were creative with the truth when it came to their resources...which basically they didn't have. As supporters we were carried along with the flow, and it's been a rough ride. 

starting at the bottom was an option. Our new owners opted instead to agree to pay ALL the rugby creditors debts left by our previous disasterous owners, and much of the DCMS loan has already been paid, (by the sale of our Premiership P shares) and Gloucester Rugby will be paid the £0.5m due to them for a last minute unjustified match cancellation. Our owners didn't have to do any of that.
Other clubs who did start at the bottom were not in a position to take this option, so comparisons are not really valid. 

All history now, and we look forward to visiting some places we've been before, and some we obviously haven't. During the last 2 seasons we've kept our hand in by various away trips organised by our Wuss Warriors Supporters Trust, including 2 to Cov, which were excellent days out. 

We look forward to a few pints in due course.
TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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High Heidjin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by TeflonTed TeflonTed wrote:

Good afternoon all from Worcester.

New poster here, but not new to being battered around by a lifetime of supporting Wales, and by the last 40 years of living very close to Sixways, and having held season tickets there from the first season they were available. 

Now, like it or not, we're back. We know full well not everyone agrees with what's gone on, and all opinions are heard and respected. All we can ask as supporters is that you will welcome us when we visit, you, as we will certainly welcome you at Sixways.

If you are one of those who thinks we should start at the bottom, then please try and acknowledge the key facts. Our club was broken having been acquired by a pair of cowboys who were creative with the truth when it came to their resources...which basically they didn't have. As supporters we were carried along with the flow, and it's been a rough ride. 

starting at the bottom was an option. Our new owners opted instead to agree to pay ALL the rugby creditors debts left by our previous disasterous owners, and much of the DCMS loan has already been paid, (by the sale of our Premiership P shares) and Gloucester Rugby will be paid the £0.5m due to them for a last minute unjustified match cancellation. Our owners didn't have to do any of that.
Other clubs who did start at the bottom were not in a position to take this option, so comparisons are not really valid. 

All history now, and we look forward to visiting some places we've been before, and some we obviously haven't. During the last 2 seasons we've kept our hand in by various away trips organised by our Wuss Warriors Supporters Trust, including 2 to Cov, which were excellent days out. 

We look forward to a few pints in due course.

Other notable clubs have gone bust in the day and had to work their way back up the RFU pyramid, notably London Scottish, London Welsh and Richmond. Worcester should be no exception (or Wasps or London Irish for that matter). 
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Se7en View Drop Down
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Originally posted by TeflonTed TeflonTed wrote:

Good afternoon all from Worcester.

New poster here, but not new to being battered around by a lifetime of supporting Wales, and by the last 40 years of living very close to Sixways, and having held season tickets there from the first season they were available. 

Now, like it or not, we're back. We know full well not everyone agrees with what's gone on, and all opinions are heard and respected. All we can ask as supporters is that you will welcome us when we visit, you, as we will certainly welcome you at Sixways.

If you are one of those who thinks we should start at the bottom, then please try and acknowledge the key facts. Our club was broken having been acquired by a pair of cowboys who were creative with the truth when it came to their resources...which basically they didn't have. As supporters we were carried along with the flow, and it's been a rough ride. 

starting at the bottom was an option. Our new owners opted instead to agree to pay ALL the rugby creditors debts left by our previous disasterous owners, and much of the DCMS loan has already been paid, (by the sale of our Premiership P shares) and Gloucester Rugby will be paid the £0.5m due to them for a last minute unjustified match cancellation. Our owners didn't have to do any of that.
Other clubs who did start at the bottom were not in a position to take this option, so comparisons are not really valid. 

All history now, and we look forward to visiting some places we've been before, and some we obviously haven't. During the last 2 seasons we've kept our hand in by various away trips organised by our Wuss Warriors Supporters Trust, including 2 to Cov, which were excellent days out. 

We look forward to a few pints in due course.

Welcome Teflon Ted - is that a reference to former Warriors captain and (in my opinion) future England back-row regular Ted Hill?

I am personally looking forward to having Worcester Warriors back. I have followed rugby from Level 1 down to Level 7 for many years, and I believe that having a club such as Worcester, and their not inconsiderate fan base and professional setup, back in a full time capacity, will be a good thing for The Championship as it finally tries to (hopefully) shift towards a professional product in all aspects. I outlined what positives Warriors could bring to Level 2 in a post a few weeks ago *(see below)

Realistically, this is still some way off, if indeed ever attainable as you will find when visiting some of the semi-pro clubs next season with their temporary scaffolding gantries, picnic bench mud banks and quaint woodland walk quagmires. Likewise, the difference in quality between the clubs on the field is ever present, and often stark with regular hammerings of some clubs propping up the bottom of the league. Time will tell, but either way, at least your club will be playing competetive rugby again, in a fit for purpose rugby ground.

I believe that you will likely receive a mixed reception on this forum, for some of the reasons outlined in your original post. However, not from me as I personally agree with what you say when highlighting that the players, coaches and supporters at Worcester Warriors were not responsible for the clubs failings, and should not be shunned or looked down on now that you are back. Good luck to you.

P.S. - Have you got any more news on player signings for next season?

* Post from 03/04

I'm sure this will not be popular on the forum, but is it fair to say that there are actually some positives about Warriors returning?

- A further fully professional side to join Ealing, Cov, Pirates and Donny and drive standards up on the field and off, which can't be a bad thing.

- Full time employment for circa 40 players once up and running, and at least half that again with coaching and back room staff.

- Return of generations of loyal Warriors fans to Sixways, and the revenue this generates for the associated businesses and area as a whole, to say nothing of the enjoyment from watching their side play again.

- A new experience and opportunity for development for hundreds of Championship players who would otherwise not get to play against and test themselves against another fully professional side which, by the looks of it, will have a lot of ex-Premiership players in it.

- Increased attraction of media, TV, broadcasting, sponsorship to a well known ex-Premiership side like Worcester, and the potential for other Champ clubs to benefit from this greater exposure.

- Another 'midlands derby' for Cov and to a lesser extent Bedford, Cambridge, Ampthill and Chinnor with more of those clubs supporters able/willing to travel for the away game.

There is no doubt that many questions remain, especially over the morality of it if you are a London Welsh or Richmond supporter. However, I think it's worth looking at the whole picture and the 'potential' benefits above (not an exhaustive list of course), if only for the sake of balance and recognition of the fact that this is what is happening come next season and people will have to get use to it.

All just my opinion of course.


Edited by Se7en - 1 hour 58 minutes ago at 17:10
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cheshire exile View Drop Down
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By “regular hammerings of some clubs” did you have in mind

Bristol 85 Newcastle Falcons 14,
Or Gloucester 54 Falcons 14,
Or maybe Northampton 61 Falcons nil?

There are clubs at the bottom of every league who have suffered some heavy defeats but you appear to have a particular animus towards a couple of Championship clubs.
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Se7en View Drop Down
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Points: 647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 39 minutes ago at 17:29
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

By “regular hammerings of some clubs” did you have in mind

Bristol 85 Newcastle Falcons 14,
Or Gloucester 54 Falcons 14,
Or maybe Northampton 61 Falcons nil?

There are clubs at the bottom of every league who have suffered some heavy defeats but you appear to have a particular animus towards a couple of Championship clubs.

Funnily enough no I didn't because you see this is a forum to discuss English rugby union's tiers 2 - 5 (as indicated in the forum title sub-heading). There are forums aplenty to discuss tier 1 (Premiership) matters if you would like direction to any of them?


Edited by Se7en - 1 hour 37 minutes ago at 17:31
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TeflonTed View Drop Down
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Se7en, thanks for the words of support. From the post immediately before your’s it obvious that the bare facts simply will be ignored by some. Hey Ho.

As to the nickname, nothing to do with SuperTed I’m afraid. A junior colleague at work many years ago thought I had a knack of not being nailed for my many mistakes. I took it as a compliment. 

As for Ted, I fear that he’s been very unlucky to have such effective competition for the England 6 shirt, which is where he’s best suited. He might well go on the summer tour since others may be with the Lions, but after that I’d be surprised if he gets any more caps. In our wildest dreams we’d like to see him back in a couple of years, he’s a local lad, who knows! 

Edit …ps.. sorry forget to comment re. players/coaches etc. Chris Holland has made it very clear that there’s no problem with fielding a competitive side, a few returnees, and some decent local youngsters. We’re waiting for a big announcement soon-ish, probably linked to the new ST package launch, we need bums on seats soonest


Edited by TeflonTed - 1 hour 31 minutes ago at 17:37
TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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cheshire exile View Drop Down
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Points: 2588 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 14 minutes ago at 17:54
Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

By “regular hammerings of some clubs” did you have in mind

Bristol 85 Newcastle Falcons 14,
Or Gloucester 54 Falcons 14,
Or maybe Northampton 61 Falcons nil?

There are clubs at the bottom of every league who have suffered some heavy defeats but you appear to have a particular animus towards a couple of Championship clubs.

Funnily enough no I didn't because you see this is a forum to discuss English rugby union's tiers 2 - 5 (as indicated in the forum title sub-heading). There are forums aplenty to discuss tier 1 (Premiership) matters if you would like direction to any of them?

You haven’t addressed my point. 
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Se7en View Drop Down
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Points: 647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 4 minutes ago at 18:04
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

By “regular hammerings of some clubs” did you have in mind

Bristol 85 Newcastle Falcons 14,
Or Gloucester 54 Falcons 14,
Or maybe Northampton 61 Falcons nil?

There are clubs at the bottom of every league who have suffered some heavy defeats but you appear to have a particular animus towards a couple of Championship clubs.

Funnily enough no I didn't because you see this is a forum to discuss English rugby union's tiers 2 - 5 (as indicated in the forum title sub-heading). There are forums aplenty to discuss tier 1 (Premiership) matters if you would like direction to any of them?

You haven’t addressed my point. 

Apologies I thought I was being quite clear, but alas maybe still obtuse. 

The answer is 'no' I did not have in mind the beatings that Falcons have had this season (because as per my point above, this forum is to discuss tiers 2 - 5). 

If we began discussing tier 1, we might as well go on and discuss tiers 6, 7 and 8 while we're at it for all the relevance that they have to the purpose of the forum itself and its title.
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Se7en View Drop Down
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Originally posted by TeflonTed TeflonTed wrote:

Se7en, thanks for the words of support. From the post immediately before your’s it obvious that the bare facts simply will be ignored by some. Hey Ho.

As to the nickname, nothing to do with SuperTed I’m afraid. A junior colleague at work many years ago thought I had a knack of not being nailed for my many mistakes. I took it as a compliment. 

As for Ted, I fear that he’s been very unlucky to have such effective competition for the England 6 shirt, which is where he’s best suited. He might well go on the summer tour since others may be with the Lions, but after that I’d be surprised if he gets any more caps. In our wildest dreams we’d like to see him back in a couple of years, he’s a local lad, who knows! 

Edit …ps.. sorry forget to comment re. players/coaches etc. Chris Holland has made it very clear that there’s no problem with fielding a competitive side, a few returnees, and some decent local youngsters. We’re waiting for a big announcement soon-ish, probably linked to the new ST package launch, we need bums on seats soonest

I saw an article about Matt Kvesic potentially returning. He could have a fair few good years left in him at this level if he can stay fit. Perhaps a dual player/coach role for him. I'm interested to see what blend of youth and experience Warriors look to bring together.

I imagine the mood among Warriors fans is very upbeat, do you think you'll retain the large fan base of old and fill a good chunck of Sixways from the off?
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Originally posted by TeflonTed TeflonTed wrote:

Se7en, thanks for the words of support. From the post immediately before your’s it obvious that the bare facts simply will be ignored by some. Hey Ho.

As to the nickname, nothing to do with SuperTed I’m afraid. A junior colleague at work many years ago thought I had a knack of not being nailed for my many mistakes. I took it as a compliment. 

As for Ted, I fear that he’s been very unlucky to have such effective competition for the England 6 shirt, which is where he’s best suited. He might well go on the summer tour since others may be with the Lions, but after that I’d be surprised if he gets any more caps. In our wildest dreams we’d like to see him back in a couple of years, he’s a local lad, who knows! 

Edit …ps.. sorry forget to comment re. players/coaches etc. Chris Holland has made it very clear that there’s no problem with fielding a competitive side, a few returnees, and some decent local youngsters. We’re waiting for a big announcement soon-ish, probably linked to the new ST package launch, we need bums on seats soonest

Welcome TT. I would hope no one here would have any issue with Worcester fans, as you have no control over your Cowboy owners. I hope that many fans  come to Vallis Way next year. 

Unfortunately, I expect that now that you are not a P-share holder, you too will get used to the Disdain from Moneybags Bill and the PRL.


Edited by gerg_861 - 59 minutes ago at 18:09
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Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by TeflonTed TeflonTed wrote:

Se7en, thanks for the words of support. From the post immediately before your’s it obvious that the bare facts simply will be ignored by some. Hey Ho.

As to the nickname, nothing to do with SuperTed I’m afraid. A junior colleague at work many years ago thought I had a knack of not being nailed for my many mistakes. I took it as a compliment. 

As for Ted, I fear that he’s been very unlucky to have such effective competition for the England 6 shirt, which is where he’s best suited. He might well go on the summer tour since others may be with the Lions, but after that I’d be surprised if he gets any more caps. In our wildest dreams we’d like to see him back in a couple of years, he’s a local lad, who knows! 

Edit …ps.. sorry forget to comment re. players/coaches etc. Chris Holland has made it very clear that there’s no problem with fielding a competitive side, a few returnees, and some decent local youngsters. We’re waiting for a big announcement soon-ish, probably linked to the new ST package launch, we need bums on seats soonest

Welcome TT. I would hope no one here would have any issue with Worcester fans, as you have no control over your Cowboy owners. I hope that many fans  come to Vallis Way next year. 

Unfortunately, I expect that now that you are not a P-share holder, you too will get used to the Disdain from Moneybags Bill and the PRL.
Thanks gerg. I think you can take a visit as read!
TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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