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The venerable Peter Higgins is incredulous
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workerbee View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 21:22
I believe that the RFU are seriously considering having no relegation from the championship , saving either Richmond or London Scottish and having a 14 team league plus a cup competition with the first six weeks being for the cup , whilst the World cup is on. The league will then start in Mod October and carry on  into May. Championship clubs will be required to play 32 matches. What happened to player safety and reducing the number of games. This will only happen for one season so what is the point. 
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I cannot even see what the possible financial benefit is. Does the RFU believe that this new club will be awash with thousands of supporters that will benefit the Championship. Personally I very much doubt it.

It is just a decision with seemingly absolutely no merit that reflects very badly on the integrity, ability and common sense of the RFU. I hope someone can provide me with some potential justification because if there is none the RFU are in danger of being considered to be less than competent
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Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

I would like someone to explain to me what or how logic or fairness is involved in allowing a new rugby club called Wasps to enter the pyramid at level 2. I cannot see any justification for it and it once again smacks of chicanery 

Trust me Big Eddie, we are all asking ourselves exactly the same thing.
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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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I would like someone to explain to me what or how logic or fairness is involved in allowing a new rugby club called Wasps to enter the pyramid at level 2. I cannot see any justification for it and it once again smacks of chicanery 

Edited by Big Eddie - 10 Apr 2023 at 17:01
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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Wasps FC is a perfectly fine club.
With great rivalries with Saracens, Ealing and London Scottish.
Herts II is a great league.

Wasps RFC is a mere phantom
Great community club, just up the road from me!
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I was advised last weekend that there are pans for 12, 13 and 14 sides in the Championship, 14 being LS relegated, Wasps parachuted in, Rams and Sale FC promoted and ....wait for it.. Newcastle relegated having taken a £10m bung from the RFU to take relegation and no promotion, thus achieving the so long awaited ring fenced prem.  

I know what Mark says, but it's just another twisted tale in a long convoluted series fo them.



Edited by Whistle watcher - 09 Apr 2023 at 09:25
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Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

Wasps are a franchise, not a club...
TheMK Dons of rugby.
At least they had the decency to move just once.
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Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Wasps FC is a perfectly fine club.
With great rivalries with Saracens, Ealing and London Scottish.
Herts II is a great league.

Wasps RFC is a mere phantom
Quite
Our City,
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Points: 12090 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2023 at 20:01
Wasps FC is a perfectly fine club.
With great rivalries with Saracens, Ealing and London Scottish.
Herts II is a great league.

Wasps RFC is a mere phantom
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Wasps are a franchise, not a club...
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Or not, depending on who ends up in the division.
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In the interest of balance I would also record that imo this has been a brilliant rugby season in Championship and the quality of rugby has been as good as I have seen in the last decade or so. The league has remained competitive at the top and bottom and with a few rounds to go it is still all to play for. There have been just shy of 8 tries scored in every game and there is only one hooker in the top ten individual try scorers. Scottish have done what they could with limited finances to compete and but for a couple of missed conversions nearly beat Jersey at St Peter and I for one will welcome them and Wasps next season in the same way I would any visiting team. The teams in the Championship next season will be determined by the RFU whom I have limited respect for but the clubs that we play should always be welcome.

Edited by corporalcarrot - 06 Apr 2023 at 17:39
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Big Eddie,

Firstly I totally accept your points above and am delighted Caldy have had a great and enjoyable season in the Championship.

My comment suggesting meaningful rugby does not exist in the Championship was made for several reasons. Firstly due to the ludicrous situation where one of the member clubs can only participate due to borrowing players from other clubs (31 so far by my reckoning). Secondly due to the farcical matter of promotion and thirdly due to the scandalous shenanigans apparently taking place to welcome the morally as well as financially bankrupt Wasps next season.

I fully accept the above is not the fault of the clubs (with the exception of the one which isn't really a club anymore) but in my humble opinion it all makes the Championship a meaningless league even if there is some decent rugby played.

Apologies for not making this clearer in my original post and I for one will welcome Caldy back to the National League if and when they are "fortunate" enough to win the only sort of promotion from the Championship that matters!


Edited by WEvans - 06 Apr 2023 at 15:32
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FHLH,

The 'troubled club' has a going concern qualification relating to material uncertainty in its latest filed accounts. The other club has written confirmation from its parent company relating to funding and the audit reort has no qualification re going concern.

I would suggest that the biggest issue in the balance sheet of both companies is the valuation of the P shares. With an ascribed carrying value of nearly £20m and nearly £18m for these 'investments' in the respective balance sheets I would suggest that if I asked Pete (I think everyone knows the venerable Peter Higgins well enough now that we can be more familiar) whether he would pay such amounts for these P shares he wouldn't need to ask his financial advisor .


Edited by Big Eddie - 05 Apr 2023 at 06:23
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Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:


The latest publicly available balance sheet of the 'troubled' club has net liabilities of circa £4m (after including the value of the P Shares at a staggering £20m) 

The Championship and National 1 down seems to be a very much better place to be.

BE - my accountancy days are long gone. Where does "Going concern" and "Trading whilst insolvent" fit in to the equation? 
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WEvans,

I don't take issue with your assessment and I reinforce some of what you say below. However, I have to say that despite my own apprehension as to what the Championship experience would be like for Caldy I have enjoyed the experience way better than I expected. My present assessment of the Championship after almost a full season:

1. All the clubs without exception have been hugely hospitable and appear to be run by proper rugby people. It has been a joyous experience to visit these Championship clubs

2. The quality and standard of rugby has not been the attritional slug fest I feared. Some of the play has been exhilarating, exciting and  hugely entertaining. The Caldy v Bedford match was one of the greatest games of rugby I have ever seen.......and I have seen a few games!

3. Any team can beat any other on their day.....it is just a great product. 

4. The pre match and post match craic has been exceptional and the Ravers' creed 'Win or lose we are on the booze' is not out of place,

Economically rugby at the elite level is just plain bonkers. It is a terrible business with no prospect of ever reaching self sufficiency. I just pulled the latest filed sets of accounts for two different Premiership sides.

One is acknowledged to be in difficulty. I haven't seen any such comment about the other.

The latest publicly available balance sheet of the 'troubled' club has net liabilities of circa £4m (after including the value of the P Shares at a staggering £20m) 

The latest publicly available balance sheet of the other club has net liabilities of £1.5million (after including the P Shares at a valuation of nearly £18m)

Based on the filed accounts both clubs are heavily loss making and they only remain solvent because their owners continue to support them. I doubt whether either of the owners would persist with such a 'business' in any other sector. I am sure if I pulled a few more sets of accounts the pattern would be repeated.

Rugby is a shockingly bad business and for the life of me I cannot understand how any owner can enjoy the experience. It must be a gut wrenchingly corrosive ride.......with no end. The Championship and National 1 down seems to be a very much better place to be.


Edited by Big Eddie - 04 Apr 2023 at 20:43
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Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

For years I have railed against the RFU's chicanery and complete indifference to the game outside the elite level but it took a conversation with Peter Higgins who is outside any rugby orbit to shine a light on how bad the chronic maladministration of English Rugby has become.

In my twenties and early thirties I was suffering from a chronic illness that took hold very gradually and eventually got so bad it seriously affected the quality of my life. Bizarrely I didn't seek a diagnosis until a visiting family member was so shocked by my obvious physical distress they insisted I went to see a doctor. Looking back on it now it is inexplicable that I did nothing about it for such a long period of time. I just thought that perhaps my condition was just a normal part of life that came to everyone when they reached adulthood.

The game of rugby is afflicted by a similar chronic malaise that is going untreated because rugby has by and large learn't to live with this sickness even though it is seriously affecting the very fabric of our game. 

Unfortunately even though the venerable Peter Higgins has pointed out the "bl***ing obvious" it is not clear to me which doctor we should get a diagnosis from or whether there is actually any cure or palliative remedy

I fear the rugby equivalent of Dignitas is the only option.

I have long held the opinion that we need the majority of clubs in the Premiership to go to the wall in order for our game to be reset to operate in a sustainable manner. And if that means our top clubs are unable to compete in the European South African Cup then so what? Until then for me meaningful rugby only exists from the National League down and even that is becoming polluted by the incompetence above it. (No offence intended Big Eddie!).
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Originally posted by JohnLowe JohnLowe wrote:

What makes the idea of a 14 team Championship even more incredulous is that the following season it has been suggested that will be reduced by 5 to give two 10 team Premiership 1 and 2 (ie 11 + 14 less 10 less 10). Hope this makes sense and that’s before I have touched a drop of 🍷

John,

I am sure when I explain your logical observation to the venerable Peter Higgins he may well turn to drink
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Originally posted by Brizzer Brizzer wrote:

If Wasps are to be included (and I am still struggling to find how or why they should be) in the Championship, then it would be grossly unfair to relegate LS. Wasps went bust, not LS.
If the RFU want a 14 team 2nd tier and assuming that they will not relegate from or promote to the PL, then they should maintain the Championship 12 from this season and promote the top 2 in N1. Wasps can go fish as far as I’m concerned, but hey! That is my own personal opinion which others may well disagree with.

I completely agree Brizzer and I think the venerable Peter Higgins will as well when I next discuss the situation with him....
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Points: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnLowe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2023 at 16:41
What makes the idea of a 14 team Championship even more incredulous is that the following season it has been suggested that will be reduced by 5 to give two 10 team Premiership 1 and 2 (ie 11 + 14 less 10 less 10). Hope this makes sense and that’s before I have touched a drop of 🍷
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