![]() |
IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting. |
Jersey Reds - Administration??? |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <12345 12> |
Author | |||
Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4917 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Camqui's point and the points made by others are valid. However for those running the company behind Jersey Reds it is a very tough business/financial call. It maybe that the existing investors and possibly potential new investors were holding out the promise of further funding depending on the outcome of talks with the RFU, the financial windfall of the game against Exeter Chiefs etc. For a sports business the decision and timing of when to pull the plug is almost certainly binary. In other businesses that market to other businesses you may be able to reduce costs in stages with redundancies and other cost cutting measures and still retain operational effectiveness and potentially your client base. When your customers are the public and your major costs are a squad of players and coaches it would be very difficult to incrementally scale back......This will all be a hindsight test for the liquidator but I suspect that Jersey's board of directors would have considered the position prior to the start of the season and probably had a financial plan which although perhaps dependent on further investment was considered to be reasonable with a likely prospect of the further investment (probably based on talks with existing investors). If you pull the plug too early you could be viewed as destroying a viable business and impacting creditors/staff and shareholders..........pull the plug too late and you will be accused of not acting soon enough. It is a horrible dilemma and most boards will be advised by experienced professionals to assist in making such a decision. I have been in the above position a number of times and thankfully was always on the right side of the decision but some were spectacularly close calls with either trade sales or further investment (which had being worked on for many months) being finally secured at a few minutes to midnight. It is a very difficult position to be in and requires very close monitoring of all the facts on a daily basis to determine when the realistic prospect of being able to continue to trade has evaporated. Some times this can be quite a few months ahead of actually running out of cash but often because of the realistic prospect of a trade sale or further investment, (which has likely been worked on for months) it runs right up to the wire and sometimes it only falls over at the final hurdle when the buyer or investor gets cold feet. I have also been in situations where directors with no equity interest in the business have turned turtle at the first whiff of financial difficulty and have pushed for Administration at way too early a juncture before the options to salvage the business have been properly explored. In both these cases the businesses were saved through a combination of a solvent transaction and an improvement in trading through the extremely hard work and tireless efforts of the other directors and the staff and employees. It is always very difficult for all involved and I would never judge any business in this situation until I knew all the facts which are usually uncovered by the Administrator/Liquidator and set out in their reports. Edited by Big Eddie - 28 Sep 2023 at 14:05 |
|||
''The future isn't what it used to be''
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Steve@Mose ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
RFU Statement:
|
|||
![]() |
|||
corporalcarrot ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Location: St Brelade Status: Offline Points: 4695 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
|
|||
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Sid James ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jun 2013 Location: East Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1631 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
I didn't mention players salaries being the issue alone but I can imagine that trying to maintain a certain level of success on the field by offering incentives you cannot meet is 'paying over the odds'. I read thst between 2019 & 2022, Reds received funding of £575,000pa from Jersey's government/the taxpayer (nice if you can get it!). This has now ceased and I expect this must be a contributing factor to their problems. |
|||
All Knwoing All Seeing
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4917 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
One thing is sure in all of this:
- after 3 Premiership clubs have folded and now one Championship club and - the RFU is forecast by some commentators to make £ gazillions of losses over the next few years the prospects of fresh investment into rugby is rapidly diminishing from a position where it was unlikely to now a position where its is probably vanishingly small. There is no clear blueprint that says this is how you make a financial return from an investment in club rugby........but there are now an increasing number of case studies that say this is how you can lose all your money by investing in club rugby. This could result in other financially struggling professional rugby clubs (which could be most of them) pulling the plug earlier than they may otherwise have done so as one of the defences against directors being accused of 'wrongfully trading' (and thus opening up the directors to personal liability) of having a realistic prospect of fresh investment will be more difficult to credibly advance. The financial climate doesn't look good for professional rugby in England Edited by Big Eddie - 28 Sep 2023 at 14:37 |
|||
''The future isn't what it used to be''
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Moseley Mauler ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Moseley Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 621 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Moseley Mauler ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Moseley Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 621 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Oops pressed something too soon. It hasn't from the very start Eddie |
|||
![]() |
|||
Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4917 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
The RFU seem to be signalling that Jersey's insolvency is down to their existing investors..........does the RFU know the full circumstances before they have leapt to this judgement?
|
|||
''The future isn't what it used to be''
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Moseley Mauler ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Moseley Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 621 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Biljon says that the club hasn't overspent. Well, clearly they have because they relied on only potential investment
|
|||
![]() |
|||
corporalcarrot ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Location: St Brelade Status: Offline Points: 4695 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
|
|||
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4917 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
I am sure you are right CC.......however managing the narrative in this way is not only counter productive it almost certainly does a disservice to the investors as it somehow suggests that the existing investors 'pulled their funds out'.
I very much doubt that was the case it being very much more likely that the existing investors declined to put more money in....and why should they if they do not believe there is any clarity on how they could possibly get a return or get their money back. The RFU have just added another reason for not investing in rugby.......the opprobrium from the governing body if the club fails.......I found that shocking and distasteful and unlikely to encourage other investors. I have often taken the RFU to task for ineptitude and their almost total focus on the elite game. However, although I believe they have mismanaged the rugby landscape they can only be peripherally at fault in Jersey's woe's so I wouldn't lay the fault for Jersey's insolvency directly at the RFU's door. There are a number of very high net worth investors in Premiership clubs that must wish they had never invested in rugby and would love to walk away rather than continuously pump funds into a market place and business model that shows absolutely no signs of ever generating a return. I would reckon that some of these VHNWIs would probably love to cut their losses and walk away from their dire investments with perhaps no money but perhaps some dignity intact. Today's pronouncement by the RFU castigating Jersey's investors may just have given these Premiership VHNWIs the excuse they need to walk away and halt their continual multi million £ leakage!
Edited by Big Eddie - 28 Sep 2023 at 16:13 |
|||
''The future isn't what it used to be''
|
|||
![]() |
|||
tulip ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Location: W Yorks Status: Offline Points: 2145 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
RFU accounts up to June 22. look fairly healthy £95 million profit to reserves.
Sweeney and his head man and woman £1.5 million in salary What on earth do they do to earn that. England international teams cost £21 million. Most people would pull on an England jersey for pride alone Same old story the rich get richer and the poor get poorer
Edited by tulip - 28 Sep 2023 at 16:35 |
|||
![]() |
|||
gerg_861 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Location: Ealing Status: Offline Points: 2380 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Terrible news. I only made it to Jersey for one match, but the hospitality and welcome were excellent. The title race last year was thrilling, and Rugby as a whole will suffer from the Championship Champs becoming insolvent.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
L33 ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 May 2008 Location: Rugby Status: Offline Points: 521 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Rugby has changed, clubs cannot operate the way the did 10 years ago.
Look at the clubs who are thriving and doing well. Clubs with M&J players, Women's teams, 2XV/3XV teams. 1 team clubs are struggling. Clubs need income every month just not during the rugby season. Private functions etc keep clubs going. You can not be reliant on the RFU and blaming them for Jersey/other clubs going bust. Clubs need to be self sufficient especially below Premiership. I feel for the players who have been put in this situation especially as the season has started and clubs may have budgets etc sorted.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
OldNick ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 20 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3414 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
|||
Steve@Mose ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Jersey Reds players could be 'stranded' after Championship club ceases trading
|
|||
![]() |
|||
WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1250 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
I agree with a lot of what you say. Those clubs you describe as thriving are of course those at National League level and below. The professional game in this country is a basket case and has been for years. The "thriving" clubs are of course thriving despite and not because of the RFU who have all but abandoned them by cutting funding and leaving them in a state of perpetual uncertainty about the league structure they play in. Mr Sweeney and his mates have proved themselves totally unfit for purpose for years now and it's pointless expecting them to be of any help whatsoever to the professional game. The solution? I honestly don't think there is one for professional rugby in this country. As hard as it will be for the clubs and their supporters the best hope in my opinion is for the whole professional structure to implode and then for us to start again building a properly sustainable structure but that would require an enormous dose of realism and there seems very little sign of that at the moment. We have waved goodbye to Wasps, Worcester and London Irish and now saying farewell to Jersey. Who next? Bristol, Exeter, Quins, Leicester? Take your pick they and many others are just one withdrawing sugar daddy/investor from oblivion.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Scrumtime ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 26 Aug 2020 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 773 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
The point I was making was Jersey should not be in this position
They won the Champ last year They should be at the top table They should be receiving the funding that the other Prem sides get whilst plying their rugby in the Prem It’s sport, you win the league you gain promotion and the rewards that come with it Not …sorry your not on our list…you cannot come in The RFU might as well make a list of who are and are not acceptable I would hate to think what they would do with Exeter under todays so call rules
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 4917 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
A lot of truths there L33. However there is some indirect culpability at the RFU's door because they are complicit with the PRL regarding what is essentially a cartel which has not allowed the winners of the Championship to obtain access to the Premiership and the funding that is provided by the RFU. Your points are also valid in respect of the Premiership which all would probably be bust if the RFU withdrew the funding that they subsidise the Premiership clubs with. The anger and hostility generally directed at the senior management of the RFU stems mostly from the inequitable distribution of RFU funding. To be honest I don't know what the solution is but I do know that Professional rugby in England is in big big trouble!
|
|||
''The future isn't what it used to be''
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Runitback ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 22 Sep 2014 Location: North Status: Offline Points: 1201 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Put simply:
The Directors are culpable having previously had to sell all their assets to pay off debts of £1.5m So their business model was obviously not sustainable. The RFU are culpable as their governance is poor to non existent and they have failed to provide a workable league structure . .. which is still in flux and Championship clubs have no idea what next season looks like. I feel desperately sorry for all staff and supporters and all suppliers . . I expect other clubs to follow. However, this also paves the way for the RFU to bring back Wasps into the Championship!!! All a farce and the sooner Sweeney and OShea leave the better . . the RFU needs a radical shake up! |
|||
Run with it
|
|||
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <12345 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |