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OEs withdraw from Nat1

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dropout22 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dropout22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2021 at 21:28
Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Due to the nature of 21/22 season, i think we could well see them back at level 3 for 22/23.

Surely that would make a mockery of the whole league structure? Leading the way for many more clubs to decide not to fulfil a season and just jump down a level? Massive legal issues I would suggest 
With what's happened in the last year and previous decisions made within the rugby pyramid/administation i'm no longer suprised by anything.

With 4 teams potentially going up next season to L2, i think the RFU could look kindly on the OE's position. 
Knowing a player there personally, who now weeks away from his season is out of a club - i just feel sorry for those who have invested their time & effort/committed to the club to now be left out in the wilderness....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2021 at 22:01
Like most I have sympathy for OE's position (and particularly the comments of Dropout22) but like any other business you don't suddenly wake up one morning and realise you don't have enough money to continue, this has doubtless been brewing for months and the timing insults the integrity of League 1 and all its member clubs. If the thinking is that the restructure will bring multiple promotions and no relegations therefore we can just have a year off and resume our position at the same level in 22/23 then I sincerely hope that is kicked out as unacceptable. As already pointed out London Scottish chose an option being offered by the RFU in exceptional circumstances and is totally different from this scenario. starting again at the bottom of the pyramid has to be imposed in fairness to all those who have fallen before them. I won't list - too many to mention!! 

Edited by Thatbloke - 06 Aug 2021 at 22:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moseley Mauler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 09:58
OE's back in level 3 in 22/23? It won't happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 11:07
What I don't understand is leaving the announcement with less than a month away before season starts. One would of thought they would have known this position earlier in the summer which would have given opportunities to move relegated sides back up the leagues or is this too simplistic. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 13:51
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

What I don't understand is leaving the announcement with less than a month away before season starts. One would of thought they would have known this position earlier in the summer which would have given opportunities to move relegated sides back up the leagues or is this too simplistic. 
The club was clearly run by Mr Micawber - "Something will turn up".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingRuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 14:45
Surely they knew at least a year ago that they were facing this inevitability. Prior to the non-season 2020-21 they had already lost most of their players to other clubs and everyone knew the writing was on the wall. Except them apparently. Bailing out at such a late stage has denied another club the opportunity to play at level 3 and reduced the match-day revenues of the other 15 clubs. I think it stinks.

Edited by FlyingRuck - 07 Aug 2021 at 14:48
See you further on up the road
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalesman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 15:17
Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

That is more income lost for the remaining clubs......


And if a club has already bought advance train tickets to their away game at OEs - say £3000 worth in a particular case - all non refundable, who compensates them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 15:19
Originally posted by FlyingRuck FlyingRuck wrote:

Surely they knew at least a year ago that they were facing this inevitability. Prior to the non-season 2020-21 they had already lost most of their players to other clubs and everyone knew the writing was on the wall. Except them apparently. Bailing out at such a late stage has denied another club the opportunity to play at level 3 and reduced the match-day revenues of the other 15 clubs. I think it stinks.

Whilst agreeing pulling out at this late stage is disgraceful I think it is a bit of a push to suggest this was inevitable a year ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clueless like most Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 19:26
At the backend of this issue, is an excellent Kent club with a vibrant youth section and successful colts setup, that now needs to work even harder to restore the club’s reputation. Im sure that they will be working very hard at the new task. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 20:07
OK I'm going to be harsh here but
1) Yes it WAS inevitable a year ago
2) If you rely on 1 sugar-daddy then the end is inevitable - just a matter of time
3) Sounds like a fantastic club who should never have taken the path it did in the first place
Live and learn perhaps is the message here
Good luck OE's on starting afresh and rebuilding a club that is proud of itself and a shining light for the local community - hope it doesn't take too long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 20:35
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

What I don't understand is leaving the announcement with less than a month away before season starts. One would of thought they would have known this position earlier in the summer which would have given opportunities to move relegated sides back up the leagues or is this too simplistic. 

Haywards Heath did it once the Thursday before the season started a few years ago. But any club that holds out this long knowing they cannot complete the season, thus blocking teams from being reprieved, is disgraceful 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 14:05
Originally posted by FlyingRuck FlyingRuck wrote:

Surely they knew at least a year ago that they were facing this inevitability. Prior to the non-season 2020-21 they had already lost most of their players to other clubs and everyone knew the writing was on the wall. Except them apparently. Bailing out at such a late stage has denied another club the opportunity to play at level 3 and reduced the match-day revenues of the other 15 clubs. I think it stinks.


Agreed, their future was questioned on this forum but any problem was denied by officers of the club.

The writing was on the wall from the moment their sugar daddy unfortunately passed away.

As others have said they should continue at the level their next highest side is currently down to play at. There is no case for them being in N1 or N2 next season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 14:51
I thought clubs had to submit a business plan for the season before the deadline for being replaced?
If this has gone by the wayside, perhaps it should be brought back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 16:42
There is a review as Rams fell foul of the beaks a couple of seasons ago
So many Christians not enough Lions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 20:17
I thought the RFU had been involved, for how long before this announcement, who knows, are they also at fault with the lateness of this statement?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 21:05
The cut-off is June 1st.

The statement said they had been working with the RFU finance for the past  month.
Which would mean, starting in July.

I do think that all clubs should submit in May, a simple declaration that there is no reason why the club cannot complete the following season, signed by the officers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 23:09
I think its fair to say the majority if not all, are dismayed and annoyed/upset by some poor management. I feel for Rotherham as they are the ones who are the most hit. 

Agreed some clubs may have purchased train tickets etc, however if they have done so on a non-refundable basis taking into account the last year. I must say I think this is again poor management and would only say it is their own fault. 

It seemed on the face of it OE's were a community/family club and from their website it seems this decision as much as it has had the above effect will not effect the community rugby element of the club. I think we should all be able to have some credit towards OE's for this as ultimately the number one outcome should be always be the rugby; if kids, juniors, colts etc are being looked after, despite the sacrifice of the first team I am all for it. 

However I am still of the opinion they should start from the bottom of the pyramid from next year. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 12:23
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

OK I'm going to be harsh here but
1) Yes it WAS inevitable a year ago
2) If you rely on 1 sugar-daddy then the end is inevitable - just a matter of time
3) Sounds like a fantastic club who should never have taken the path it did in the first place
Live and learn perhaps is the message here
Good luck OE's on starting afresh and rebuilding a club that is proud of itself and a shining light for the local community - hope it doesn't take too long

It wasn't inevitable a year ago. Likely maybe but not inevitable. An awful lot can happen in a year as we have all seen.

Plenty of clubs rely on a "sugar-daddy" and continue to exist year after year some even changing sugar-daddies along the way. Of course it isn't ideal but it happens.

Other clubs move from a "sugar-daddy" to a more sustainable ownership model. Yes their results tend to suffer in the short-term but they continue in the league. Some clubs have even chosen to field a team based on lower league players to fulfill fixtures even though it meant losing every game.

Quite simply it wasn't inevitable no matter how many times you might say it was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 16:00
Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:

I think its fair to say the majority if not all, are dismayed and annoyed/upset by some poor management. I feel for Rotherham as they are the ones who are the most hit. 

Agreed some clubs may have purchased train tickets etc, however if they have done so on a non-refundable basis taking into account the last year. I must say I think this is again poor management and would only say it is their own fault. 

It seemed on the face of it OE's were a community/family club and from their website it seems this decision as much as it has had the above effect will not effect the community rugby element of the club. I think we should all be able to have some credit towards OE's for this as ultimately the number one outcome should be always be the rugby; if kids, juniors, colts etc are being looked after, despite the sacrifice of the first team I am all for it. 

However I am still of the opinion they should start from the bottom of the pyramid from next year. 


Rotherham finished in the bottom 3 and were relegated - end of.

OEs National League side was bankrolled by 1 benefactor who unfortunately died. Without his money they would not have attracted the calibration of player who got them promoted through the leagues to Nat 1.

No sympathy for them at all. However I hope the rest of the club survives and the OE name continues at whatever level their highest remaking 15 currently play at.

There is no way they should start at N1 or even N2 level.

Other clubs have disappeared down the pyramid over the years and have worked (Richmond) or are working (London Welsh, East Grinstead, Haywards Heath) their way back up - treating OEs any different could open up the possibility of legal action from those clubs or others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 17:17
Had OEs withdrawn before 1st June, Rotherham would have been reinstated and so on down the pyramid.

As it is, National 1 carries on with 15 sides.
All clubs lose approximately one fifteenth of their revenue, possibly less, as OEs did not have a lot of travelling support - except Moseley, who were due to play them at home in the pre-Christmas match and so lose a very lucrative fixture. I was surprised they were not playing Blackheath for that one.

While this is offset somewhat by reduced match fees - the income from a home match should cover two sets of match fees, travel and make a contribution to fixed costs. So I expect all sides to be out of pocket, Moseley more so than most.

The players still expecting to play for OEs have not had a chance to find other clubs. Players at the other 15 clubs will lose two sets of match fees.

Obviously, I do not have visibility of the goings-on at OEs. It could be that on May 31st, they honestly thought they had a new sponsor lined up, and believed they could finance a season. Then by July 1 it fell through, and they started talking to RFU finance.

I wonder if it would be possible to arrange a Barbarians fixture for Moseley?

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