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OEs withdraw from Nat1

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Halliford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 18:46
Just seen this on the Rosslyn Park website:

"It appears that the final nail in their coffin was an ultimatum from the RFU, who had been working with the club to try to salvage the situation. The club had consistently assured the RFU over a long period that they had another major sponsor in the offing. However, the RFU became increasingly concerned that the club would be unable to meet its financial commitments and imposed a deadline last week by which the club was required to provide a written assurance that they would be able to meet those commitments. It failed to do so."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 18:53
I'm not sure how much we can rely on a posting from another club's website but if true then surely the deadline imposed by the RFU should have been the date where it would still be possible to rejig the Leagues as necessary ie Roth being reinstated to Nat1. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 20:31
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Edited by Rothman2 - 10 Aug 2021 at 08:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 20:37
Originally posted by Rothman2 Rothman2 wrote:

That’s the point though Raider. They didn’t finish. 
Promotion has to be earned and the second placed teams would normally have played each other in a play off, but they didn’t finish the season either.
Rotherham were shoddily handled but on that there has been no change for more than 20 years.
Make rules up as they go along. Great game, shoddily managed. Look how they have handled the Championship? And I mean handled in the loosest possible terms.
They arranged a 10 game mini league specifically to promote Saracens and everyone is ok with it. 

All that matters is England and the Prem. 

To me all that matters is club Rugby and they have effectively destroyed it below the Prem. Record crowds at the EFL this weekend and the game of Rugby is on its knees, and you know what they have what they deserve and I will never forgive them for the way they handled the situation with Roth.





Record crowds at EFL this week - probably due to the fact Premier League doesn't start until 13th August.

I am fully aware that the league didn't finish, but I don't see any other club's supporters bleating about it.

Fully agree with you over the farce of Championship playing a few games just so the cheats could be promoted - I wonder what they would have done if the other teams had followed L Scottish example and not played, there again the answer is obvious - promote the cheats by default.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 21:02
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Edited by Rothman2 - 10 Aug 2021 at 08:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 21:08
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Edited by Rothman2 - 10 Aug 2021 at 08:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 08:26
You lost for words Rothman2? You have some quality players joining you from Donny, and I fully intend to pop on over whenever the fixture list - if this matter had been addressed sooner your Team would no doubt still be in Nat 1 (which is a glorious league in my opinion) and we could be hoping for a return to our derby matches.....maybe two years time when you bounce back.
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 10:56
OE's first XV is a limited company and as such lodges the annual accounts with Companies house for all the see and it is very clear by their 19/20 accounts they were in trouble.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 10:59
Enough said - Previous comments by various posters fully justified
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 11:49
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

OE's first XV is a limited company and as such lodges the annual accounts with Companies house for all the see and it is very clear by their 19/20 accounts they were in trouble.

Im sorry to say just a quick shirt through other clubs in National 1 don't paint a pretty picture.
I think the RFU needs to do some proper digging on the whole lot. OEs could just be the first of many I feel.

Blackheath's balance sheet reads  .. - £480 k. that's £60k worse off that Oes .. wonder if the RFU has a closer look at them?

Cambridge chairman posted on their web site this time last year they were £40 k away from being bust, yet they only pulled £20k of that in on their crowd funder
They also managed to sign 15 players ( 8 of which were for the 20/21 season that never happened)in the course of the last year and claimed Furlough for many.. how they got away with that?

Leeds had the £800k CVA reduced to £80k and wrote off £720 k of debit 

Chinnor have all their eggs in one basket, what happens if Rectory homes go?

There are many in National 1 that have problems, time for either the RFU to act now or start to filter some CVC money down. You cannot expect to play National 1 rugby as a club and get no funding. I seem to recall it was £125 k less than 5 years ago, its now nothing. In Div 1 football (level 3) in 19/20 season the average for each club was £1.35m...that was without TV money!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 13:04
The financing of rugby clubs is a complex area. Owning your own ground is a major benefit, generating non-rugby income can often be crucial. Even then a club can be in the same position as many companies are, supporting its working capital through a strong fixed asset. Sweating that asset becomes a key step, as does engagement with members to get their support.

Reducing reliance on individual donors/sponsors is also key - unless they are Trailfinders’ owner with an enlightened long-term funding strategy, you are always focussed on the whims of one or two people and that is dangerous. 

As we move into a new season we are trying to find all sorts of indicators as to how income generation will change - will gates rise, will pre-match lunches sell out, will people stay in the Bar after matches, will they attend Events? Finding the answers to all of those questions will happen in the first few weeks of the season so by Christmas we will have a clearer idea of how our finances will change this season.

Let’s hope the 47 remaining NLR Clubs can get through this early period and continue to show the rest of the game how to run successful rugby clubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 15:06
It is also what the debts were, were they rugby debts (players wages etc) or running costs rent/utilities etc which there could be a payment holiday for but still has to be paid. As Halliford says it’s a complex business and unless you know the complete picture everything is just speculation
So many Christians not enough Lions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 17:53
Unfortunately, OE's didn't own their own ground and had little home support.

So there was little to fall back on when they ceased to get the money from their benefactor.

Their demise was predicted towards the end of the 2019/20 season - provoking vehement denials on this forum from one of their officers - strangely we haven't heard anything from him lately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 22:21
I note that Mr Paulsen (deceased) was declared bankrupt on the 13th August 2020 with the petition coming from a Dutch company, Semper Fortuna N.V.

On the other hand, he is still listed as having Active Significant Control over Old Elthamians Rugby XV Ltd.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 06:37
I saw a couple of OE players in the local last Saturday whilst I was watching the game.
I had to ask them the question, to be fair they were gutted but pretty open about it.

It turns out that this was all started by two ex players. Both who left the club on Jan 2020, when the money stopped. One started a wats ap group headed, " I'm going to war on OE's, who is owed what" and then sent it to every player that had left.
Both of these players, who's names are out there for doing this, are now plying their trade elsewhere at local clubs.

Mr Paulsen it seems was not totally the picture that was painted. We all know that Secure Trading went down in May 2019 owing the RFU several millions. He owes the club via Cyber1 (still active and nasdaq listed) a very large sum, although the club is taking legal action to reclaim this, the hearing date has been moved back 3 times due to COVID, the last date it was due to be heard was June but has been moved back to Oct they were saying, that is the "owed sponsorship" in the press announcement, he also owes and has outstanding many debits to many at OEs. That might explain the timing of things!








Edited by Scrumtime - 11 Aug 2021 at 07:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 09:45
I dont think it is fair to blame the players, if they had signed contracts in good faith then the Club should have honoured them or like any business that can not meet its obligations it has to close.

I wonder how you would feel if your employer did the same? This is the Clubs responsibility and again shows the danger of Sugardaddies!
Run with it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 10:04
For those who run clubs or have a financial interest and who have the stamina the RFU have just released via the Community Clubs Up date  New Financial and Insolvency regulations - Regulation 5 which runs to 10 pages!!. I presume they start up a new department to over see Regulation 5,  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 10:43
I think they are very worried that a lot of other clubs have fallen foul and its only just coming to light.
I think this may have opened a can of worms that they are not happy with, and a lot of other clubs will be under the microscope in the very near future!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 17:52
I read Scrumtime's post to mean the players, possibly with others,  instigated the action against Paulsen's estate - not they were at fault.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 18:53
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I read Scrumtime's post to mean the players, possibly with others,  instigated the action against Paulsen's estate - not they were at fault.




Indeed - why not if they are owed money (only Leeds can get away with that )

As others have said - this is the downside of 1 source of income.

Additional OEs must have paid well to attract the calibration of players they did, hence when the money stops those players move on has the have little loyalty to the club.
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