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Premiership II plans announced
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SaleTown View Drop Down
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SaleTown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 10:45
There are so many issues with this.
Just two off the top of my head.

I wonder if the RFU understand the potential legal backlash from clubs if a team is parachuted (especially if they don't have a team or coaches and haven't played a game of rugby in two years) in above a club that can evidence that they exceed the arbitrary minimum standards?

The other item is that's quite interesting is the financial stability section. The only financial Stability they require is for 2025/2026. That's not stability. 

Clubs like Caldy (who will struggle to satisfy the minimum criteria), with a second and third team with 100's of M&J's and volunteers are a far more sustainable club than clubs who have one professional team backed by a sugar daddy who might drop dead/go broke/lose interest at any moment. Rugby is full of clubs/teams that pumped money in season by season and then crashed and burned when the money disappeared. 

This proposal appears to be rewarding that model, not preventing it. 

The reality is, in a hundred years, clubs who own their own property (or a long lease at least), have diverse revenue streams away from match day, have minis and juniors as members of the club, have a solid plan to spend within their means and create a welcoming family atmosphere will survive. The others I'm not so sure about.
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Points: 1762 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 10:59
I'm sure Big Eddie will clarify soon enough but I don't think Caldy (and clubs of a similar ilk) will aspire to be part of this jamboree? It's criminal that the RFU refuses to recognise what such clubs have achieved through sheer hard work and financially sustainable ambitions only to throw it all back in their faces and say "you're not wanted" (carefully disguised within minimum standards)
Shameful
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Points: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breakdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 10:59
This part is so Orwellian that I think I almost threw up on my keyboard at its utter deviousness, disinformation and transparent malignancy:


"There will be a play-off transition mechanic to drive a jeopardy narrative between the

adjacent leagues."    
Broken down. Beyond repair.
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Points: 1762 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 11:05
You could perhaps add "to be manipulated by whatever means to ensure that clubs we want in a certain league remain in that league" 
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Points: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breakdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 11:56
"The Tier 2 Board was established in July 2024 with an independent Chair and representatives
of the Championship Clubs and the Rugby Football Union." says O'Shea.

Not quite true. It was established TO HAVE an independent chair, but it does not currently have one and these invitations have gone out without a chair in place. So that does rather undermine the process. 

Also, these formats go against the interests of traditional rugby clubs who operate sustainably and in favour of those that rely on financial "supporters" and are happy to hand over control of their team selection to a Premiership club. This is a recipe for the creation of a zombie league.

Anyone with the interests of the game as a whole at heart (and that in theory includes the British government!) should resist these proposals and reject this process.   
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fatbear View Drop Down
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Originally posted by *Stalwart *Stalwart wrote:

I just hope the Championship clubs stick together  and refuse to have anything to do with this s*** show.

Just like they stuck together on the Championship Cup !
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Points: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breakdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 12:39
A scenario: your ambitious Championship club signs up for T2, dutifully includes 10-15 Prem players in league games, wins league.

Then there is a play-off with the Prem bottom club. Mysteriously, none of the 10-15 Prem players are available for either game. Prem bottom club wins play-off easily against disrupted Championship side who aren't accustomed to playing together as a XV or their players who have got fed up at being sidelined in favour of Prem kids have quit or been released to save money.

Hey presto - there is no promotion from T2 to the Premiership. Except nobody can prove that there isn't. 
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Perfect scenario - just what was intended in the first place!! 
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SK 88 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SaleTown SaleTown wrote:

There are so many issues with this.
Just two off the top of my head.

I wonder if the RFU understand the potential legal backlash from clubs if a team is parachuted (especially if they don't have a team or coaches and haven't played a game of rugby in two years) in above a club that can evidence that they exceed the arbitrary minimum standards?

The other item is that's quite interesting is the financial stability section. The only financial Stability they require is for 2025/2026. That's not stability. 

Clubs like Caldy (who will struggle to satisfy the minimum criteria), with a second and third team with 100's of M&J's and volunteers are a far more sustainable club than clubs who have one professional team backed by a sugar daddy who might drop dead/go broke/lose interest at any moment. Rugby is full of clubs/teams that pumped money in season by season and then crashed and burned when the money disappeared. 

This proposal appears to be rewarding that model, not preventing it. 

The reality is, in a hundred years, clubs who own their own property (or a long lease at least), have diverse revenue streams away from match day, have minis and juniors as members of the club, have a solid plan to spend within their means and create a welcoming family atmosphere will survive. The others I'm not so sure about.

Just on this point the time for that legal challenge is now at the point they are starting the process. Once its in motion the bar for stopping and reversing it will be much higher.

The time for a CMA challenge (if teams really feel it is a cartel) is now. 
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Points: 6435 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 14:52
Yes, it's an utter shi'show as expected, but I have no idea why people are running with the idea that clubs will have to have 15 Prem loanees/DRs.

To quote:
"In addition clubs will be able to dual register up to 15 players".

No compulsion indicated there.
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fatbear View Drop Down
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Points: 2886 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2024 at 15:19
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Yes, it's an utter shi'show as expected, but I have no idea why people are running with the idea that clubs will have to have 15 Prem loanees/DRs.

To quote:
"In addition clubs will be able to dual register up to 15 players".

No compulsion indicated there.
It says clubs need to have 30 players capable at playing at level 2 and 45 players in total ie other playing club members eg 2nds, 3rds, Vets and presumably minis and juniors, and women !

 No need to register dual registered players if you don't want to
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Is the requirement to have 30 players capable of playing level 2 at the time of registering interest or at the start of next season?

If the former, that will scupper any club not already at level 2.
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Originally posted by maggers maggers wrote:

Is the requirement to have 30 players capable of playing level 2 at the time of registering interest or at the start of next season?

If the former, that will scupper any club not already at level 2.

It would scupper any club not yet in existence too unless they’ve already signed a load of players and they’re currently sat on gardening leave.

I can’t see how the existing Championship clubs should act other than reluctantly signing up to this even if they acknowledge it as a fait accompli.

Do we know what the L2 minimum standards are going to be?
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https://www.englandrugby.com/run/rules-governance/rfu-rules-and-regulations/tier-2-minimum-operating-standards-202526
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SaleTown View Drop Down
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Originally posted by maggers maggers wrote:

Is the requirement to have 30 players capable of playing level 2 at the time of registering interest or at the start of next season?

If the former, that will scupper any club not already at level 2.
Capable of playing, not necessarily winning. 
Caldy essentially have the core of the same team they had in Level 3&4 competing in level 2. 
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Originally posted by Marlovian Marlovian wrote:

https://www.englandrugby.com/run/rules-governance/rfu-rules-and-regulations/tier-2-minimum-operating-standards-202526

Just read these front to back. Zero percent chance of most clubs meeting them in particular the media requirements around gantries, Hawkeye, and press conference rooms. Also, the requirements for seating and nearly a dozen full time staff are out of reach of most clubs. Finally, hope Ampthill can afford flood lights, as those are ma datory and at the club's cost. Right now, I think Ealing, Donny, and Cov meet these guidelines. They are light years out of reach for some clubs.
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Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by Marlovian Marlovian wrote:

https://www.englandrugby.com/run/rules-governance/rfu-rules-and-regulations/tier-2-minimum-operating-standards-202526

Just read these front to back. Zero percent chance of most clubs meeting them in particular the media requirements around gantries, Hawkeye, and press conference rooms. Also, the requirements for seating and nearly a dozen full time staff are out of reach of most clubs. Finally, hope Ampthill can afford flood lights, as those are ma datory and at the club's cost. Right now, I think Ealing, Donny, and Cov meet these guidelines. They are light years out of reach for some clubs.

As of course is the intention.
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Rugby has always been elitist and protectionist, when I played, you had to be invited to " trial" for the higher level clubs and I don't just mean those in the old "merit tables". Getting fixtures to improve your fixture list was judged by what were your pitch/club house/food/beer was like no one looked at your recent results to see if you were any good or not.
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Pirates, as Championship runners up last season, are miles away from the off-field requirements.
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Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by Marlovian Marlovian wrote:

https://www.englandrugby.com/run/rules-governance/rfu-rules-and-regulations/tier-2-minimum-operating-standards-202526

Just read these front to back. Zero percent chance of most clubs meeting them in particular the media requirements around gantries, Hawkeye, and press conference rooms. Also, the requirements for seating and nearly a dozen full time staff are out of reach of most clubs. Finally, hope Ampthill can afford flood lights, as those are ma datory and at the club's cost. Right now, I think Ealing, Donny, and Cov meet these guidelines. They are light years out of reach for some clubs.

Whilst I completely agree with most of the sentiment from posters on here about the proposed changes by the RFU, I have to say that for a club to be competing at level 2 and not already having floodlights is absurd if that is the case at Ampthill. Most clubs I know of competing at levels 6 and 7 at least have floodlights.

Is that due to the land at Ampthill being protected or similar? I seem to remember Caldy's Paton Field ground actually not being owned by them but leased long term from the National Trust and so limiting what infrastructure/stands could be built if they did want to stay at Level 2 in Prem II come 2025/6.
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