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Premiership II plans announced
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Paul10 View Drop Down
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Points: 758 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 14:33
Ampthill has several pitches.
The 1st team pitch is the only flat one.

The other pitches have floodlights and are close to the club house so presumably straight forward for an electricity supply.
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But are often only suitable for water polo.

The upper pitches are much better - and playable in all weathers. 
Cambridge always seems to visit in the middle of a named storm.



Edited by Camquin - 02 Oct 2024 at 14:39
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Points: 2698 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 15:17
I will repeat what I have said many times here: The RFU should restore some of the removed funding, and designate it for capital expenditures (e.g. stands, pitch improvements). Honestly, that should have been the case when each team was getting £625k/annum. A basic, 50 seat covered stand can be had for £20k, and there are plenty of clubs with no covered seats at all.
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Points: 7609 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 18:40
Some seem to think that the Champ is being reconstituted, with existing clubs having to apply to be in it. But that’s not the case, is it? I thought it was an expansion thing with an invitation to teams who might want to claim the 13th/14th places…

There’s an article in today’s Times on this - refers to various stumbling blocks such as both Wasps & Wuss being under same ownership, the need to pay creditors (including agents) etc
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Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:

Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by Marlovian Marlovian wrote:

https://www.englandrugby.com/run/rules-governance/rfu-rules-and-regulations/tier-2-minimum-operating-standards-202526

Just read these front to back. Zero percent chance of most clubs meeting them in particular the media requirements around gantries, Hawkeye, and press conference rooms. Also, the requirements for seating and nearly a dozen full time staff are out of reach of most clubs. Finally, hope Ampthill can afford flood lights, as those are ma datory and at the club's cost. Right now, I think Ealing, Donny, and Cov meet these guidelines. They are light years out of reach for some clubs.

Whilst I completely agree with most of the sentiment from posters on here about the proposed changes by the RFU, I have to say that for a club to be competing at level 2 and not already having floodlights is absurd if that is the case at Ampthill. Most clubs I know of competing at levels 6 and 7 at least have floodlights.

Is that due to the land at Ampthill being protected or similar? I seem to remember Caldy's Paton Field ground actually not being owned by them but leased long term from the National Trust and so limiting what infrastructure/stands could be built if they did want to stay at Level 2 in Prem II come 2025/6.
No, it's because the pitch is about seven miles from the nearest civilisation 😉
Seriously though, it would seem that Ampthill will have to do a lot of groundwork and building work to comply.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Points: 11453 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 20:21
Ampthill did have a plan to sell the ground and move about a mile to a new site - which would be able to have a main pitch next to the clubhouse and possibly lights.

But it was all set to go in 2020.
But, life happened.
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Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Some seem to think that the Champ is being reconstituted, with existing clubs having to apply to be in it. But that’s not the case, is it? I thought it was an expansion thing with an invitation to teams who might want to claim the 13th/14th places…

There’s an article in today’s Times on this - refers to various stumbling blocks such as both Wasps & Wuss being under same ownership, the need to pay creditors (including agents) etc

I'm afraid not. From what I have read it looks to me that whilst all existing Champ clubs would in principle have the right to be part of Prem 2 next season (save for promotion/relegation) that would ONLY be the case if they could evidence that they meet the MOS criteria, with regards infrastructure, media facilities, stand(s), existing and potential expanded capacity numbers etc.

The last two sentences of the extract below appear to confirm this, 'validate and confirm MOS...in order to participate':

To: Universities, Colleges and
RFU Member Clubs
30th September 2024
Tier 2 - INVITATION TO SUBMIT A FORMAL EXPRESSION OF INTEREST
At its September 2024 meeting the RFU Council approved the mechanism for entry for additional teams into the Tier 2 (currently known as the Championship) league from 2025/26. Entry will be via a tender process.

The process for the existing 12 Championship clubs to validate and evidence their ability to meet the ‘Essential’ minimum operating standards, and other matters, in order to participate in the new Tier 2 league, is coming to the end of the validation.

For at least a third if not half of existing Champ clubs this will not be feasible, whether that be due to financial, space, infrastructure, location constraints.

At the risk of sounding cynical, I'd suggest that the RFU are well aware of that fact, hence opening the door for aspiring Nat 1/University clubs who can meet the requirements, along with the likes of Worcester and /or Wasps etc if resurrected.

For the sake of those existing Champ clubs who are set to be left out in the cold, and their many thousands of fans across the country, I hope that I'm wrong.


Edited by Nat1 - 02 Oct 2024 at 20:51
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islander View Drop Down
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That's your way of reading it Nat 1, with your choice of bolded words. I read it differently...

At its September 2024 meeting the RFU Council approved the mechanism for entry for additional teams into the Tier 2 (currently known as the Championship) league from 2025/26. Entry will be via a tender process

Have highlighted 'additional' because I sense the existing 12 (apart from possibly the winners going up and the losers going down, with both being replaced) would get places...

Hopefully someone can clarify which of these interpretations is correct.
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'The process for the existing 12 Championship clubs to validate and evidence their ability to meet the ‘Essential’ minimum operating standards, and other matters, in order to participate in the new Tier 2 league, is coming to the end of the validation.'

This paragraph, bolded or not, is clear and definitive. 'In order to participate' is black and white.

What may be more ambiguous to most of us, including me, is how strict/demanding the MOS will be that the RFU decide to enforce, and what the subsequent effect on existing Champ clubs will be. Ultimately, we will have to wait and see.
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Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

News from BBC Hereford/Worcester on X/Twitter, since picked up (without crediting the source) by the Rugby Inside Line acct:

Felicity Kvesic
@FelicityKvesic
Worcester Warriors have received the formal invitation from the RFU to submit their expression of interest [by Oct 13] to return to the second tier of the professional game in England


Trying to catch up in my reading and noticed this on the BBC site regarding Worcester. Apologies if it has already been published on this or another thread:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cn0erl5n554o
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Points: 2698 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2024 at 19:52
I am pretty sure that everyone got invited. News on prem 2 in the Rugby Journal today, four page article. Very good. Lots of info about minimum standards and the tender process. Also lots on the Champ clubs podcast. Both confirm that some clubs in the league do not meet current standards. Final decision on prem 2 constituents to be taken by Tier 2 board, and NOT the RFU.
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Points: 2698 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2024 at 19:56
Tier 2 board apparently is also backing the limits on dual registered players. That is an EXCELLENT negotiation tactic with the PRL. If they want game time for their young players, then provide some cash.
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Points: 6435 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2024 at 20:41
It's a very good article, with a lot of stand-out content.
One of the best bits comes from Nick Johnston, where he says on the subject of parachute payments:

(I paraphrase)
'They should be put in an account and used to pay those boys and girls that would otherwise lose their jobs due to relegation from the Prem.
If they don't want to do that, then we'll just put a wage cap in place'.

Bravo.
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Article just in The Times by Alex Lowe saying that London Irish have also applied to join the jamboree. Expression of interest by their preferred bidders of the moment - Hokulani Ltd.

The stitch up gathers momentum.

The RFU think it a good idea that clubs that have survived the last few years have to submit three years worth of accounts yet waive that requirement rather than adding further proofs and steps for the 3 clubs that can’t provide those accounts.
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Those interested should check out the most recent episode of the Champ Clubs Podcast, in which Bedford COO Gareth Alred gives his take on some of the issues about expansion. Interesting that he appears to indicate no team is likely to be relegated from the Champ this season, so if all the existing clubs pass the minimum standards, which again seems to most likely outcome, and the Nat 1 winners come up, my maths suggests there would only be one vacancy left in order to get to the increased quota of 14 clubs.



Edited by islander - 09 Oct 2024 at 14:29
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Nothing thrives in stagnate water
Same with stagnate rugby leagues 
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https://www.championshiprugby.co.uk/follow/news-media/minimum-standards-criteria

Total screw job. Need to have planning permission and funding before eligible for promotion.
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Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Those interested should check out the most recent episode of the Champ Clubs Podcast, in which Bedford COO Gareth Alred gives his take on some of the issues about expansion. Interesting that he appears to indicate no team is likely to be relegated from the Champ this season, so if all the existing clubs pass the minimum standards, which again seems to most likely outcome, and the Nat 1 winners come up, my maths suggests there would only be one vacancy left in order to get to the increased quota of 14 clubs.


That's not quite accurate. Alred says around the 23.50 mins mark that there is the possibility that some (unnamed) current Champ clubs that may not meet the MOS criteria. He goes on to say, quite rightly, that they have had enough time to get their houses in order to ensue that they do, which is a fair point if Level 2 does want to run more professionally. A decent, balanced overview from a man in the know who recognises that change is coming, and is needed.


Edited by Se7en - 09 Oct 2024 at 21:12
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Enough time? Remind us when the “minimum criteria” were published.
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Points: 520 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2024 at 07:24
The Champ clubs and their representatives have been having regular meetings with the RFU for months, I believe at least quarterly but I'm not 100% on that.

I'm not privy to the exact date the MOS were formalised and published, but I'd suggest Alred and his counterparts at the other clubs are. Perhaps someone close to the leadership team at Bedford Blues or one of the other clubs knows?

In essence, none of what the clubs are being asked to evidence now should come as a suprise this far down the line, especially if they'd decided to be proactive in finding out. Whether the clubs agree or can comply with them is a different matter obviously. 

The tone of those (very knowledgeable and experienced) contributors on the podcast is actually one of recognition and understanding that changes need to be put in place, and should be a good thing for bringing up the Champ to align more to a professional league and setup. The idea being that this will inevitably increase its marketability to investers and media parties, which would in turn create noteworthy revenue and ensure the survival and development of Tier 2 into the future.


Edited by Se7en - 10 Oct 2024 at 08:01
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