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Premiership II plans announced |
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JZSmith 
British and Irish Lion 
Joined: 27 Aug 2024 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 242 |
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 Posted: 06 Apr 2025 at 12:50 |
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I'll stick with my original post.
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Se7en
World Cup Winner 
Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Not given Status: Offline Points: 655 |
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Posted: 06 Apr 2025 at 16:04 |
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No 7
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Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Location: LONDON Status: Offline Points: 1941 |
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Posted: 06 Apr 2025 at 16:42 |
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I can recall that the previous ' owners ' acquired assets at the stadium and surrounding area. One asset was the car parking. The whole thing stinks.
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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.
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TeflonTed
Academy player 
Joined: 13 Apr 2025 Location: Worcs Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 15:22 |
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Good afternoon all from Worcester.
New poster here, but not new to being battered around by a lifetime of supporting Wales, and by the last 40 years of living very close to Sixways, and having held season tickets there from the first season they were available. Now, like it or not, we're back. We know full well not everyone agrees with what's gone on, and all opinions are heard and respected. All we can ask as supporters is that you will welcome us when we visit, you, as we will certainly welcome you at Sixways. If you are one of those who thinks we should start at the bottom, then please try and acknowledge the key facts. Our club was broken having been acquired by a pair of cowboys who were creative with the truth when it came to their resources...which basically they didn't have. As supporters we were carried along with the flow, and it's been a rough ride. starting at the bottom was an option. Our new owners opted instead to agree to pay ALL the rugby creditors debts left by our previous disasterous owners, and much of the DCMS loan has already been paid, (by the sale of our Premiership P shares) and Gloucester Rugby will be paid the £0.5m due to them for a last minute unjustified match cancellation. Our owners didn't have to do any of that. Other clubs who did start at the bottom were not in a position to take this option, so comparisons are not really valid. All history now, and we look forward to visiting some places we've been before, and some we obviously haven't. During the last 2 seasons we've kept our hand in by various away trips organised by our Wuss Warriors Supporters Trust, including 2 to Cov, which were excellent days out. We look forward to a few pints in due course.
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TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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High Heidjin
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 965 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 16:42 |
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Other notable clubs have gone bust in the day and had to work their way back up the RFU pyramid, notably London Scottish, London Welsh and Richmond. Worcester should be no exception (or Wasps or London Irish for that matter).
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The Inner Game Will Win Every Time
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Se7en
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Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Not given Status: Offline Points: 655 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 16:52 |
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Welcome Teflon Ted - is that a reference to former Warriors captain and (in my opinion) future England back-row regular Ted Hill? I am personally looking forward to having Worcester Warriors back. I have followed rugby from Level 1 down to Level 7 for many years, and I believe that having a club such as Worcester, and their not inconsiderate fan base and professional setup, back in a full time capacity, will be a good thing for The Championship as it finally tries to (hopefully) shift towards a professional product in all aspects. I outlined what positives Warriors could bring to Level 2 in a post a few weeks ago *(see below) Realistically, this is still some way off, if indeed ever attainable as you will find when visiting some of the semi-pro clubs next season with their temporary scaffolding gantries, picnic bench mud banks and quaint woodland walk quagmires. Likewise, the difference in quality between the clubs on the field is ever present, and often stark with regular hammerings of some clubs propping up the bottom of the league. Time will tell, but either way, at least your club will be playing competetive rugby again, in a fit for purpose rugby ground. I believe that you will likely receive a mixed reception on this forum, for some of the reasons outlined in your original post. However, not from me as I personally agree with what you say when highlighting that the players, coaches and supporters at Worcester Warriors were not responsible for the clubs failings, and should not be shunned or looked down on now that you are back. Good luck to you. P.S. - Have you got any more news on player signings for next season? * Post from 03/04 I'm sure this will not be popular on the forum, but is it fair to say that there are actually some positives about Warriors returning?
- A further fully professional side to join Ealing, Cov, Pirates and Donny and drive standards up on the field and off, which can't be a bad thing. - Full time employment for circa 40 players once up and running, and at least half that again with coaching and back room staff. - Return of generations of loyal Warriors fans to Sixways, and the revenue this generates for the associated businesses and area as a whole, to say nothing of the enjoyment from watching their side play again. - A new experience and opportunity for development for hundreds of Championship players who would otherwise not get to play against and test themselves against another fully professional side which, by the looks of it, will have a lot of ex-Premiership players in it. - Increased attraction of media, TV, broadcasting, sponsorship to a well known ex-Premiership side like Worcester, and the potential for other Champ clubs to benefit from this greater exposure. - Another 'midlands derby' for Cov and to a lesser extent Bedford, Cambridge, Ampthill and Chinnor with more of those clubs supporters able/willing to travel for the away game. There is no doubt that many questions remain, especially over the morality of it if you are a London Welsh or Richmond supporter. However, I think it's worth looking at the whole picture and the 'potential' benefits above (not an exhaustive list of course), if only for the sake of balance and recognition of the fact that this is what is happening come next season and people will have to get use to it. All just my opinion of course. Edited by Se7en - 13 Apr 2025 at 17:10 |
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cheshire exile
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Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2594 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 17:20 |
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By “regular hammerings of some clubs” did you have in mind
Bristol 85 Newcastle Falcons 14, Or Gloucester 54 Falcons 14, Or maybe Northampton 61 Falcons nil? There are clubs at the bottom of every league who have suffered some heavy defeats but you appear to have a particular animus towards a couple of Championship clubs. |
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Se7en
World Cup Winner
Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Not given Status: Offline Points: 655 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 17:29 |
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Funnily enough no I didn't because you see this is a forum to discuss English rugby union's tiers 2 - 5 (as indicated in the forum title sub-heading). There are forums aplenty to discuss tier 1 (Premiership) matters if you would like direction to any of them?
Edited by Se7en - 13 Apr 2025 at 17:31 |
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TeflonTed
Academy player
Joined: 13 Apr 2025 Location: Worcs Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 17:31 |
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Se7en, thanks for the words of support. From the post immediately before your’s it obvious that the bare facts simply will be ignored by some. Hey Ho.
As to the nickname, nothing to do with SuperTed I’m afraid. A junior colleague at work many years ago thought I had a knack of not being nailed for my many mistakes. I took it as a compliment. As for Ted, I fear that he’s been very unlucky to have such effective competition for the England 6 shirt, which is where he’s best suited. He might well go on the summer tour since others may be with the Lions, but after that I’d be surprised if he gets any more caps. In our wildest dreams we’d like to see him back in a couple of years, he’s a local lad, who knows! Edit …ps.. sorry forget to comment re. players/coaches etc. Chris Holland has made it very clear that there’s no problem with fielding a competitive side, a few returnees, and some decent local youngsters. We’re waiting for a big announcement soon-ish, probably linked to the new ST package launch, we need bums on seats soonest
Edited by TeflonTed - 13 Apr 2025 at 17:37 |
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TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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cheshire exile
World Cup Winner
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2594 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 17:54 |
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You haven’t addressed my point.
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Se7en
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Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Not given Status: Offline Points: 655 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 18:04 |
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Apologies I thought I was being quite clear, but alas maybe still obtuse. The answer is 'no' I did not have in mind the beatings that Falcons have had this season (because as per my point above, this forum is to discuss tiers 2 - 5). If we began discussing tier 1, we might as well go on and discuss tiers 6, 7 and 8 while we're at it for all the relevance that they have to the purpose of the forum itself and its title.
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Se7en
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Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Not given Status: Offline Points: 655 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 18:09 |
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I saw an article about Matt Kvesic potentially returning. He could have a fair few good years left in him at this level if he can stay fit. Perhaps a dual player/coach role for him. I'm interested to see what blend of youth and experience Warriors look to bring together. I imagine the mood among Warriors fans is very upbeat, do you think you'll retain the large fan base of old and fill a good chunck of Sixways from the off?
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gerg_861
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Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Location: Ealing Status: Offline Points: 2912 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 18:09 |
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Welcome TT. I would hope no one here would have any issue with Worcester fans, as you have no control over your Cowboy owners. I hope that many fans come to Vallis Way next year. Unfortunately, I expect that now that you are not a P-share holder, you too will get used to the Disdain from Moneybags Bill and the PRL.
Edited by gerg_861 - 13 Apr 2025 at 18:09 |
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TeflonTed
Academy player
Joined: 13 Apr 2025 Location: Worcs Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 18:33 |
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Thanks gerg. I think you can take a visit as read!
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TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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cheshire exile
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Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2594 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 20:55 |
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TeflonTed
Academy player
Joined: 13 Apr 2025 Location: Worcs Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 13 Apr 2025 at 22:29 |
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Se7en asked “ I imagine the mood among Warriors fans is very upbeat, do you think you'll retain the large fan base of old and fill a good chunck of Sixways from the off?”
It’s a good question. The Supporters Trust created shortly after administration has approaching 300 paid subscribing members. An open evening hosted by Chris Holland at Sixways in January attracted a similar number of locals. Not necessarily the same people. The chat around the locality is that a lot of people might be back, but there’s uncertainty until pricing is announced. Our ST take-up numbers were never officially confirmed, but were certainly over 2,000, and possibly nearer 3,000 or more. Estimates of how many folk we’ve lost vary enormously, some optimistic locals seriously expect we’ll get 6,000 for our first home game. Personally if I was a betting man I’d be going for 3,500 ish. It will depend greatly on who the schedulers choose to face us for the first home game.Schedulers always like to promote what they see as local derbies. Hartpury is nearest, with Cov a close second. Or will they choose to put us in our place by sending us to Donny for Rd1. Who knows. We should start a book.
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TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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Breakdown
First XV regular 
Joined: 11 Apr 2023 Location: SW London Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Posted: 14 Apr 2025 at 06:48 |
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As a supporter of one of the clubs condemned to an undignified plummet to the bottom of the league system 25 years ago, I sympathise with the supporters of any club betrayed by the whim of dodgy owners.
But the point is, as mentioned above, a moral one. Specifically, the concept of moral hazard, which we all first started to hear about at the time of the global financial crisis in 2007-08. If a system allows organisations to remain unpunished for taking reckless business decisions in pursuit of unrealistic goals that benefit only themselves, it installs a fatal weakness. A precedent is set. The same behaviour could easily become the norm. Business decisions can be made knowing a cheap alternative to utter destruction could be the result. It encourages the ultimate version of the cynical foul on the pitch. It is precisely because of the precedent set and established in the cases of London Scottish, Richmond and London Welsh that so few club owners have done what was done to Worcester. Such potential punishment threatened to bring about not just a business setback of epic proportions, but the humiliation of a club and a community. That is a real moral dilemma to all but the most Lovely business people. It's a tragedy for Worcester supporters to have been caught in this. But it is more of a tragedy for the English game that, in the pursuit of creating a stronger Tier 1, Bill Sweeney and his Board of Betrayal have trashed the concept of moral hazard and created a precedent that every rugby supporter may well live to regret.
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Broken down. Beyond repair.
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TeflonTed
Academy player
Joined: 13 Apr 2025 Location: Worcs Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 14 Apr 2025 at 08:01 |
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Reasonable points reasonably put Breakdown.
I think the moral issue of a business going bust, by incompetence or self interest of crooked owners, and starting again with effectively the same owners, leaving creditors unsatisfied is clearly immoral. But in the circumstances of Worcester, this hasn’t happened. This isn’t the same business, it isn’t the same owners. Chris Holland owns the ip of Worcester Warriors by accident really. He was initially after the stadium, initially for Wasps short-term, and ended up with the ip of WW when Jim O’Toole (known locally as Jim O’Fool) defaulted on a short term loan. Now, if Holland, holding the stadium complex and land (worth real money) and the ip of Worcester Warriors (worth nothing) had decided to start a rugby club called Fernhill Heath RFC, pay nothing to any creditors of the old business, and start at the bottom nobody would have a clue what was going on, or care less. He had that choice. But with enough local support (just) to fund a T2 side, and satisfy the “rugby creditors” (invented term) as defined by the RFU, he was free to apply to join the new T2, as were all comers. He has chosen to do this, involving serious money, to honour debts incurred by previous owners, debts he had absolutely no need to honour, in return for the opportunity of using what little goodwill remains attached to the WW brand by entering T2 knowing that a good few businesses and individuals who would otherwise have lost out, are now being paid. Yes it’s a trade off, and yes it’s a regret that he can’t satisfy all debts of the previous regime. If we had started at the bottom, with effectively a T2 side walloping level 10 clubs in an empty 12,000 seat premiership standard stadium with all rugby creditors unpaid, should that have been better? I’ll bet Nick Easter doesn’t think so anyway. It’s a matter of public record that he was owed £8k which he will now get back. Anyway, good to chat, but I now have to go and spend a day off-line helming a Canal & River Trust workboat while a team of volunteers clean a few locks on the Worcester & B’ham Canal. Rugby and Canals, there’s worse interests.
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TeflonTed, 2 miles from Sixways
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Camquin
World Cup Winner
Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11965 |
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Posted: 14 Apr 2025 at 08:39 |
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Stop trying to claim the history of Worcester RFC and the Warriors. Pick a new name, put 2025 on your shirt and be proud of being a new club. |
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Robb
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Joined: 24 Jan 2017 Location: South East Status: Offline Points: 1668 |
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Posted: 14 Apr 2025 at 09:50 |
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Hear hear.
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Se7en wrote: