Welcome Saracens?
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Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=17951
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Topic: Welcome Saracens?
Posted By: gerg_861
Subject: Welcome Saracens?
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:01
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35 point deduction for Salary cap fiddling. Will we be seeing another London club on here next year? At current tables we'll have four London teams next year: Ealing, London Scottish, Richmond and Saracens
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Replies:
Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:03
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Ouch! that has got to hurt. That should get numbers up on the terraces next season 
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Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:04
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Will they breach the Championship salary cap?!!? lol ------------- Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!! |
Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:07
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Sadly I think they'll stay up this season. ------------- Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!! |
Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:16
| Could you imagine Saracens and Newcastle in the Championship next season? |
Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:27
| Are they going after the rest of the clubs ignoring the salary cap? Sarries are probably the biggest offenders, but surely they can't be the only ones to be sanctioned? |
Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:29
| Does this also mean that many of their players will have to take pay cuts? |
Posted By: donnyladinsheffield
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:31
By the time they are done investigating we might find London Welsh's bonus point in 14/15 was enough to win the premiership ------------- He's alright and he don't care; He's got thermal underwear |
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:31
I'm sure that they'll appeal, but the "extra pay" was in the form of joint investments. I don't know if they will have to divest those or what will happen. Regardless of whether or not they get relegated, at the very least they will struggle to make the Champions Cup.
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Stalwart wrote:Posted By: knightandday
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:39
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My betting is that the extension to the Premiership will happen at the end of this season. No relegation, Newcastle promoted. Drawbridge up. ------------- Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:41
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Some big earners at Sarries who are also Eng squad members - what happens if they need to go to France to maintain their lifestyles? That could hurt the home nations. It raises the wider issue of the viability of rugby as a spectator sport at top club level.All the Prem teams need large squads of quality professionals. Can these squads be supported via modest ( in some cases) gate receipts, minimal tv revenue and local sponsorship? How do Sale afford to import a large squad of SA players or indeed Bristol a £1m fullback? No doubt this debate will run and run but one thing is for sure if the Prem is going to expand it will have to have a better TV deal. Finally I have no doubt that the decision will be appealed and it may well be that the "special" arrangements found to be legal.
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Posted By: Old Gold
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:45
 ------------- #AClubForLife💛❤️🖤 |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 11:49
| Nah, they even said that last season they'd have stayed up had the deduction been added. They'll survive as long as they keep their overpaid team together. Then they can win the Challenge Cup at a canter next season. |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 12:42
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Yes, 35 points would have still left Leicester and Newcastle below them. I am sure that safety net didn’t come into their calculations! |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 12:53
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I'm pleased that this has finally been dealt with and punished accordingly, but alas I feel we'll see a successful appeal and business as usual... ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 13:00
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Or a decision to increase the size of the premiership meaning no relegation thus saving Saracens and Yorkshire ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Fat Albert
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 13:11
------------- a Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 13:13
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A cynic might say that the Leeds outcome has something to do with the ongoing Sarries investigation then underway. My question is who gets the £5.4m fine? ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 13:17
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I smell ring fencing 😡 ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 13:36
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I'm sure they'll appeal, but I think they are lucky with their punishment considering its repeated breached. They could have had some of their titles wiped from the record. Liklehood is that they will still stay up anyway |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 13:53
Unfortunetly not Fat Albert. Clubs will still spend to achieve success. That can be finishing in the top 4/6/etc to qualify for Europe or finishing 11th rather than 12th, especially if prize money is still shared out on a performance basis (as I understand sponsorship it is now pooled and shared out by merit, rather than a pure winner takes all system). Ringfencing the league, as I have said before and will keep saying, has no rugby benefits, it only has financial benefits for the clubs within the fence; those outside will wither and die. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Cricks at 2
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 14:03
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 14:05
Allianz only seats 8500 this year anyhow. Seems about right for the Championship. Send 'em down.
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Posted By: Kentish Odd balls
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 14:23
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No surprises. All prem clubs are at it. A good friend of mine has his rent payed for by a Prem club. The landlord/owner of the property is his team mate. I'm just shocked it's taken this long for it to start coming out. |
Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 14:35
| A lot of disappointed faces after the World Cup Final. A lot of Saracens players may have been multi millionaires had they won |
Posted By: One For The Ditch
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 15:10
I would suggest that some of them are already!
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 15:42
I don’t. 35 points deduction for them is a rap over the knuckles, but not enough to risk them being relegated. |
Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 16:04
35 pint reduction? Well that's just spoilt a good weekend
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Posted By: Donnyknightsfan
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 16:41
| that is an absolutely brutal punishment!!. mind you if it is totally proven then Saracens should have all of their titles stripped from them. I hope their appeal doesn't succeed either. 35 points deducted is incredible. |
Posted By: Touchjudge
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 17:08
| The whole thing stinks! One is better at level 3 and below, where lads play for not a lot and for the love of the sport! |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 17:15
35 points is a season without top level European competition, that’s all. |
Posted By: stadium
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 17:19
| Premier League cartel could Ring Fence to save Saracens. |
Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 17:39
I'm not sure how many fall into the "multi million" bracket - any evidence to support these statements?
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Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 17:57
There is absolutely no doubt that the Cartel will ensure that a member club does not lose out. Enlarged Premiership will soon be announced and everyone in the Cartel will be happy. The cheats however will eventually be found out, so Saracens should be striped of their titles including the European Champions Cup titles they won under false pretences. ------------- Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!! Seven down one to go |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 18:09
Got it this time. Thanks. |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 18:12
They don’t need to . The RFU has done so by calculating a meaningless level of deduction. 50+ would be needed. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 18:46
Not sure the ECC has a budgetary limit - if it did the French teams would all be booted out - so removal of their European Wins would not happen. It is interesting this has surfaced now, bearing in mind that the finger of suspicion has been pointed at Saracens for a number of years. Bristol can pay 1 player £1m because there is the marquee player system whereby 1 or 2 players salary is not included in the cap. I presume it is the dubious practice of Mr Wray setting up businesses for his star players that has caused them the problems ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 19:13
| England players were allegedly on a bonus of £200k each if they had won the World Cup. |
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 20:43
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I hope the punishment sticks, a year without European money and prestigious games might deter a few stars from signing . . and presumably they would have to cut a few top players. Better for the game . . but it is all a farce as only 2 clubs in the Premiership make any money and live within their means. I wish the RFU had had the same conviction with Leeds. ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 23:23
They can't change the rules in the middle of the season and if that points deduction actually relegates Saracens, then there is no way they will ring fence for at least two seasons because they won't dare shutout Richie Rich of the Old Boys club.
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Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 07:50
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Ring Fencing cannot take place this season, as it has to be agreed before the season has begun. I suspect most clubs in the Prem have one or two dodgy deals tucked away somewhere...... ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: One For The Ditch
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 09:08
Take a ferret around The Companies House site and then check out the
property values of the registered addresses. Good to see that some of
the boys have done well for themselves.
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Posted By: Westcoaster
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 09:09
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Calm down , the points deduction is only suspended, so unlikely to be enforced.... ------------- Come on Jersey........ |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 09:32
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One of the articles I read suggested that, as the review has been carried out by a third party and they have listened to and carefully considered all of the evidence from Saracens before reaching their conclusions, the likelihood of an appeal succeeding is fairly remote. They would need to prove that the process followed and/or conclusions reached were fundamentally flawed.
[Edit] Here you go: "Saracens only have the right to seek a review by a new panel, which can only overturn the punishment if it finds there has been a procedural error or the decision was disproportionate or unfair. Given that the panel was chaired by Lord Dyson, a former Justice of the Supreme Court, a legal expert told Telegraph Sport that their chances of success are small."
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Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 09:39
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Law of the Land v PR rules and regs. PR regs infringe human rights or some such other law, European or otherwise and the law of the land will win every time regardless of what PR say.So Sarries will be found to have not broken any law but be in breach of PR regulations which dont count so Sarries win as points deduction and fine will be unlawful.
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Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 09:40
Plain and simply through a Backer. In both their cases the academies are in great state. In regards to the salary cap, the clubs can avoid hitting the ceiling by using the 2 allocated Excluded player slots or by promoting via their academy where they can write off £30,000 of the players salaries should they join the club before their 18th birthday. The Saracens ruling has been appealed so at this stage they're not on -26 points.
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 10:17
I get your point, but it'll have to go through a lot of stages - and an awful lot more than £5.36m in legal fees - before that conclusion is reached. And if it's that simplistic, why haven't the Championship clubs - or indeed, all of the clubs outside of the top flight - brought a case for restraint of trade against Premiership Rugby? [Edit] Also found this: "Under the Regulations, Saracens Rugby Club has the ability to seek a review of the decision by an arbitration body. The review can only be on the basis that there has been an error of law, the decision is irrational or that there has been some procedural unfairness. In the event that Saracens Rugby Club seeks a review, the sanctions will be suspended pending the outcome of that review." And as Saracens presumably signed-up to the T&Cs as part of their ongoing agreement with Premiership Rugby, they might find it hard to argue that the rules and regulations don't apply to them. Or am I just being woefully optimistic..?
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 12:41
Not so, it was applied yesterday. |
Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 12:54
Saracens are on 9 points with an * https://www.premiershiprugby.com/" rel="nofollow - https://www.premiershiprugby.com/
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 14:20
| That’s an update from yesterday then Rob. Must be since they’ve appealed. |
Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 14:45
From this morning Nick - as you say, pending the outcome of the appeal.
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Posted By: dunc999
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 15:51
| I think a lot of the good Saracens have done has been lost in this episode. I'm no fan, but the way they have brought players through their academy and developed to full internationals is very impressive. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 17:12
No it has been suspended because Saracens are appealing - word has it they are likely to be unsuccessful and it will be re-instated. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 17:13
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Quinns and Exeter seem to be putting the boot in, Murphy at Tigers calling for a league wide review of club accounts. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50314599
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Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 17:24
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I think there should be a salary cap for overseas players Piuatau getting £1 million is crazy. But for players coming through academies they should get paid what they are worth. Unfortunately when you pay Piuatu £1 million, Farrell and Vunipola bros will want likewise. |
Posted By: One For The Ditch
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 18:22
It would be like reading Horror Comics with one, may be two, exceptions
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 19:31
Personally, I would allow teams to spend their salary cap how they want - but I would not allow 'marquee players' who's salary is outside the cap. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 20:37
Not sure how accurate this is but Sonny Williams is allegedly getting 2 and a half million for two seasons with Toronto in rugby league. Makes the Piiatu Deal pale into insignificance as an ex All Black. ------------- Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!! Seven down one to go |
Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 21:13
Toronto definitely splashing the cash ready for the new season. At 34-y-o I wonder if Money Bill Williams is A: going to last, and B: worth all that expenditure? It's being reported that they've also approached Manu Tuilagi. I wonder who else is on their shopping list? 🤔 |
Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 21:30
Not a question whether he or they are worth the expenditure or not, someone has put the the dosh on the table and the player has picked it up. I suspect there will be other players in the twilight zone (too old for the 2023 WC) will be exercising their options over the coming months ahead of the 6 Nations and selection of the squads. Would Farrell or Ford as “Northern boys” also consider going the M62 route? ------------- Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!! Seven down one to go |
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 21:51
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I doubt S B -W is on that sort of money . . salary cap for RL Super League is £2m . . . . well below the Premiership! ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 22:45
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Suggest you speak with the BBC rugby correspondents if you disagree with the figures as these are the ones that they are Indicating. Happy for you to prove me wrong RIB. ------------- Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!! Seven down one to go |
Posted By: Loo fighters
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 07:00
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Think like union they have two outside of salary cap. But the figures reported are just crazy in a sport that's on it ar5e. Surely isn't gonna promote a happy dressing room when he earns more than the whole squad combined. ------------- Family-Rugger-Beer... |
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 08:47
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Okay, so I've done some analysis on this. Over the last 11 seasons, the relegated club has had on average 22 points. If you assume that the 35 point deduction is upheld, then Saracens need to come up with 57 points to be "safe". They are currently on 9 points after 3 rounds, so they have to then generate 48 points out of the remaining 19 rounds. Obviously there are a total of 95 points still in play, so they essentially only have to capture HALF of the remaining possible points to ensure safety. Instead, I see them as needing at least 80 points (to end with 48) to qualify for Europe next year. That is a much more difficult proposition, and the one that MAY put them in a trap situation. If they end up putting all of their focus in the Champions cup to win (and thus qualify via that route), then they might ignore the Premiership too much and fall slightly short of the points needed to survive.
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Posted By: Kentish Odd balls
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 09:27
| Rather ironic Quins going on about cheating...... |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 09:55
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Dimes joining in now, not often I agree with what he has to say https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50325042
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Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 10:59
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I wonder how much Cipriani has earned over the past few seasons- Sale arguably helped to save is career but since then I can only assume he has moved for more money? Sale has de Klerk is he one of the two outside the cap? Like Exeter Sale seem adept at recruiting groups of players which must help. Who will be Liam Williams given that he's out for 3 months? Just three questions associated with a complex issue.
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Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 11:00
| That's PAY Liam W-sorry. |
Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 11:14
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Eliot Daly !!! Lured in on a big salary with "benefits in kind" now finds those benefits are not available. I'm sure his salary will suffice but does he just have to suck it up ? What about this season with those benefits now ruled out of order ? Sarries must be fined for this season as well which currently is not part of the punishment.
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 11:21
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Presumably the reviews are carried out at the end of the season, which is a bit of a problem given that Saracens must be spending at least as much this year as previously (probably more given the Daly signing highlighted by IT above). Off the top of my head I can’t think of any significant departures. I guess one uncertainty is the costs of those who have been involved in the World Cup (8 at Sarries I think). Were they still paid by the clubs even though on international duty for three months? |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 11:27
Pretty sure these guys are on an annual salary, I doubt they'd be hourly paid...……………………...
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 12:03
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Pay per play? ;-) |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 12:27
The lesser code cheat a little by allowing teams to have 2 "marquee players" where only £150,000 of their salary count against the cap. Good job Tuilagi isn't following Money Bill Williams (who can't tackle properly) into the trappings of an inferior game. |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 12:36
You are aware that the Premiership also allows for 'marquee players'? "The current level of the Salary Cap for 2017-18 is £7m, plus two Excluded Players whose salaries sit outside the cap." https://www.premiershiprugby.com/about-premiership-rugby/about-us/salary-cap/" rel="nofollow - https://www.premiershiprugby.com/about-premiership-rugby/about-us/salary-cap/
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Posted By: stadium
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 12:36
| No one has mentioned the players Agents involvement.They negotiate the deals. |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 12:50
Superleague allow for marque players outside of the cap but if I understand rightly Toronto are even outside of the cap full stop. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Jerorky
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 13:55
Meow! Its your opinion Robb but they are two different sports and IMO the RFU & Media obsession with the top level and the ignoring the Laws ( Straight put in at scrum/lineout/, forward passes etc) to enhance the spectacle is driving us in that direction.
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 15:09
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While we're in the mood, lets fine Scotland £70,000 for threatening legal action for postponed match (not worth a new thread) ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 15:37
Not worth including in this thread either.
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 17:45
| Sorry tigerburnie, you’ll have to help me out here....I’m missing your point🤔 |
Posted By: Donnyknightsfan
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 16:05
| Saracens will not appeal the 35 point penalty or fine. still don't think the penalty is harsh enough. they should've had all of their titles taken off them. I bet they pick very weak sides in Europe now. they're now 26 points adrift of Leicester at the bottom. I hope Sarries go down. deliberately cheating the system is disgraceful and cynical. |
Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 16:14
| Has anyone talked about the point that HMRC may now consider action now its been confirmed as income not a business arrangement . In a business arrangement there can be lots of ways of offsetting tax whereas income tax is levied on the straight income. That might really hurt |
Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 16:22
| Would hurt the players not the club. |
Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 17:09
| The club will still be responsible for National Insurance though won't they? |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 17:11
It would also hurt the club as the players will presumably be looking for an increase in salary. I have to say, it has always amazed me how Saracens could afford so many star players and be within the salary cap - obviously they couldn't! As the IR are looking hard at contractors again, I can't believe they wouldn't be all over Saracens and their players like a rash. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 18:07
All directors of company`s are PAYE and liable to tax on earnings and N.I. You are able to receive dividend payments. This is under scrutiny and you have to adhere to clear guidelines. ------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: Alderman
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 19:17
| Am hearing Sarries will retain their England players during the six nations. If true that should guarantee points against weakened competitors.... |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 19:21
are they allowed to do that?
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Posted By: Pirate Pig
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 20:05
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Saracens have now admitted that they were operating above the salary cap by making these additional payments to certain players. Those same players are still under contract so will the RFU now demand clear evidence that changes have been made? Surely Saracens need to confirm that either these contracts have been 'ripped up' or players released to ensure that they are now operating under the cap?
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Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 20:16
If not released by club for 6 Nations could this end their International careers. ------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 20:20
Am I thinking of wendy ball or isn't the rule if they are selected for an official international and refuse they cannot play under IRB rules ?? Not sure
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Posted By: Pirate Pig
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2019 at 21:10
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My understanding of the current agreement between PRL and the RFU is that clubs are paid a certain amount per player as compensation for when they are away on international duty. I doubt Saracens would consider breaching this agreement or doing anything else to cause upset in their current predicament.
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Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 01:26
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A season in the Championship would do them good. I'm sure they'll love a wet, windy winters afternoon in Penzance, for example.
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Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 07:56
Major point = If selected. Behind the scenes agreement not to select Sarries players as 4 years out from a World Cup, so no major problem if England have a mediocre 6 Nations.Eddie Jones will bring in some younger guys on the pretext of building for the next WC. The next six nations after the upcoming one will see the build up and Jones will have seen a few new faces to consider.
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 08:10
| In all honesty, I really, really don't want to see Saracens in the Championship next year. Given Ealing's slightly baffling struggles, I can't see us overhauling Falcons (though much will be determined on the 21st of December, live on Sky Sports). However there is absolutely no way that anyone is overtaking Sarries or being beaten by less than 30 points unless their entire squad departs. I'd rather just have the Premiership hand the Championship the £5m fine from Saracens than see them play here next year! |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 08:49
| At the moment it looks more likely that we'll be seeing Leicester next season. |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 08:55
Maybe not the World Cup, but the Lions Tour is only 2 years away.......
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Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 09:01
Exactly. Although I'm sure it won't happen, Saracens at L2 would just mean a wasted season for everyone. ------------- TJOS |
Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 09:36
| At least, with Leicester and Sarries facing the drop, ring fencing will disappear off the agenda for a while. |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2019 at 09:48
Silver lining and all that!
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