Next Season
Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forum
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: National 2
Forum Description: Discuss the 42 clubs in the fourth level of the English game.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=18325
Printed Date: 28 May 2024 at 07:36
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Topic: Next Season
Posted By: backrowb
Subject: Next Season
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 10:53
What do you reckon?
I am Thinking:Current league positions stand
3 leagues of 14 at Level 4
Hull Ionians and Canterbury relegated from Nat 1
Richmond promoted From Nat 1
Tonbridge and Fylde play off for a spot in Nat 1
Yorkshire Carnegie fold so no relegation |
Replies:
Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 11:04
No disagreement with that.
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pappashanga
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 11:14
They may give the play off to Tonbridge due to better playing record (as it is unlikely that we will find ime to play it).
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 11:39
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Actually I would like to see the RFU use the time to work on the new structure.
And try to get it in place if we get back to rugby in September.
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Loo fighters
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2020 at 11:41
Straight ups n downs for me, no play offs as they'd be getting played in August at this rate.
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Family-Rugger-Beer...
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Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 09:59
 Loo fighters wrote:
Straight ups n downs for me, no play offs as they'd be getting played in August at this rate. |
+1 for this, and I think that's what the RFU will do because they don't want any more games.
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Posted By: pen 15
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 10:48
with Hull and Canterbury down replaced by Caldy and 1 from 2s..Replace Leeds with present leader in Nat 1 Sarries down Falcons up.
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is it stours year yet
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Posted By: Offside194
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 17:19
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N&M S W S E
Fylde Redruth Tonbr
S.Pk. Clift Henley
L.Std. Dings BSE
Hull Barnst Esher
Chester Okeh O As
Tyne Bournv Worth
Wharf Stourb Barn
Luct O.Reds Canterb
Sheff. Tig Bournm Westcl
Harrog W.S.Mare Rochf
Sheff Maidhd Guernsey
Hull Ion Exet. Uni Leic. Lions
Hudd Brixh Hinck
Blay Camborne Sutt Eps. FWIW
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 18:00
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Controversial Offside 194 - As would be any system applied! - It looks as though you have used the average points per game scenario leading to 3rd placed Harrogate in Northern Prem taking precedence over Sandal who sit 2nd. Slight complication - you have listed 43 clubs - only room for 42! Although I've just noticed you have "Lions" in North/Mids & Leicester in South so might be OK?? (Also not sure what Eps & FWIW mean at the bottom of your post - hope it's not 45 clubs??)
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 18:12
Thatbloke wrote:
Controversial Offside 194 - As would be any system applied! - It looks as though you have used the average points per game scenario leading to 3rd placed Harrogate in Northern Prem taking precedence over Sandal who sit 2nd. Slight complication - you have listed 43 clubs - only room for 42! Although I've just noticed you have "Lions" in North/Mids & Leicester in South so might be OK?? (Also not sure what Eps & FWIW mean at the bottom of your post - hope it's not 45 clubs??)
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Sutt Eps is Sutton & Epsom
I imagine FWIW is For what it's worth?
S/W looks very weak compared to the S/E.
However, I'm not sure many want this restructuring.
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RAID ON
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Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 19:38
In this scenario how many in Nat 1 and what promotion are you assuming because if Nat 1 reduces to 14 three down is very harsh if you think that the winners of each division get automatic promotion. I would say 3 winners and most points second team play ff for 2 promotion spots
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So many Christians not enough Lions
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 21:03
Rabbie Burns wrote:
In this scenario how many in Nat 1 and what promotion are you assuming because if Nat 1 reduces to 14 three down is very harsh if you think that the winners of each division get automatic promotion. I would say 3 winners and most points second team play ff for 2 promotion spots |
N1 should not be a special case - if it's 3 down in N2 then should be 3 down from N1 and the 3 winners go up, nothing for coming first losers.
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RAID ON
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Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 22:54
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I seem to recall that the RFU said there will be no alterations made to the Leagues or, the number of Clubs in the Leagues, until season 2021/22.
Also, I cannot understand why some are speculating that the RFU & NCA will ignore or abandon the regulations in place at the begining of season 2019/20? Now that season 2019/20 is ended, some Clubs clearly occupy the promition and relegation positions in the Premiership, Championship, Nat 1 and N2N & N2S. Therefore, the simplest thing to do is to do what was intended at the begining of the season: Saracens down and Newcastle up; York's Carnegie down and Richmond up; Rotherham, Canterbury & Hull Ionians down and Caldy, Taunton & Tonbridge up (no play off needed as after 25 matches Tonbridge have more points and more wins than Fylde). Simple.
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All Knwoing All Seeing
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 10:07
Sid James wrote:
I seem to recall that the RFU said there will be no alterations made to the Leagues or, the number of Clubs in the Leagues, until season 2021/22.
Also, I cannot understand why some are speculating that the RFU & NCA will ignore or abandon the regulations in place at the begining of season 2019/20? Now that season 2019/20 is ended, some Clubs clearly occupy the promition and relegation positions in the Premiership, Championship, Nat 1 and N2N & N2S. Therefore, the simplest thing to do is to do what was intended at the begining of the season: Saracens down and Newcastle up; York's Carnegie down and Richmond up; Rotherham, Canterbury & Hull Ionians down and Caldy, Taunton & Tonbridge up (no play off needed as after 25 matches Tonbridge have more points and more wins than Fylde). Simple. |
Totally agree, only possible exception might be only 2 down from N1 and winners only from N2.
Very difficult to see how the play-off could be determined, although one could argue that TJs are playing in a more competitive league than Fylde (the top 4 in the South all have a better record than Fylde in the North) therefore would be at home and have a huge advantage.
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RAID ON
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Posted By: Pilier
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 15:54
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Agree with Raider, SW looks very weak, from what I have seen this season there is very little there that can compete with Redruth and Clifton, unless Dings Bristol Bears contingent are available on a regular basis.
The good thing it would give Old Reds a chance to regroup after their problems during the second half of the season.
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Posted By: donnyladinsheffield
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 20:24
Raider999 wrote:
Sid James wrote:
I seem to recall that the RFU said there will be no alterations made to the Leagues or, the number of Clubs in the Leagues, until season 2021/22.
Also, I cannot understand why some are speculating that the RFU & NCA will ignore or abandon the regulations in place at the begining of season 2019/20? Now that season 2019/20 is ended, some Clubs clearly occupy the promition and relegation positions in the Premiership, Championship, Nat 1 and N2N & N2S. Therefore, the simplest thing to do is to do what was intended at the begining of the season: Saracens down and Newcastle up; York's Carnegie down and Richmond up; Rotherham, Canterbury & Hull Ionians down and Caldy, Taunton & Tonbridge up (no play off needed as after 25 matches Tonbridge have more points and more wins than Fylde). Simple. |
Totally agree, only possible exception might be only 2 down from N1 and winners only from N2.
Very difficult to see how the play-off could be determined, although one could argue that TJs are playing in a more competitive league than Fylde (the top 4 in the South all have a better record than Fylde in the North) therefore would be at home and have a huge advantage. |
Doesn't that indicate it is less competitive?
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He's alright and he don't care; He's got thermal underwear
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 21:49
donnyladinsheffield wrote:
Raider999 wrote:
Sid James wrote:
I seem to recall that the RFU said there will be no alterations made to the Leagues or, the number of Clubs in the Leagues, until season 2021/22.
Also, I cannot understand why some are speculating that the RFU & NCA will ignore or abandon the regulations in place at the begining of season 2019/20? Now that season 2019/20 is ended, some Clubs clearly occupy the promition and relegation positions in the Premiership, Championship, Nat 1 and N2N & N2S. Therefore, the simplest thing to do is to do what was intended at the begining of the season: Saracens down and Newcastle up; York's Carnegie down and Richmond up; Rotherham, Canterbury & Hull Ionians down and Caldy, Taunton & Tonbridge up (no play off needed as after 25 matches Tonbridge have more points and more wins than Fylde). Simple. |
Totally agree, only possible exception might be only 2 down from N1 and winners only from N2.
Very difficult to see how the play-off could be determined, although one could argue that TJs are playing in a more competitive league than Fylde (the top 4 in the South all have a better record than Fylde in the North) therefore would be at home and have a huge advantage. |
Doesn't that indicate it is less competitive?
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Definitely not, whilst N2N has one outstanding side N2S has 4 sides with better records than the 2nd place side in N2N indicating a more level and competitive league.
I would say that Caldy probably have a better chance of doing well in N1 as they are obviously an outstanding side.
However, history tells us that sides from N2N have yo-yod between N1 and N2N in recent years (e.g. Macclesfield and Hull Ionians) whereas a number of teams recently promoted from N2S are doing fairly well in N1 and above (Rams, Chinnor, Hartpury)
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RAID ON
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Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 06:48
And Bishops Stortford, Cambridge, Old Elthamians, and dare we mention Rosslyn Park, Ealing, London Scottish, Jersey...........
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Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 09:38
Richmond were in London One when I started supporting them.
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pappashanga
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Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 09:40
I recall our promotion playoff to get into National One. Caldy fought us like tigers. We had an 18 year old Kyle Sinckler in the front row.
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pappashanga
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 09:50
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I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them.
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Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 09:56
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
I presume by that you mean Quins. I know Sarries are about to go down, but they've been a London side for much of their existence. And London Irish (the clue is in the name) are soon to move back, aren't they? Wasps are lost to the capital, of course ...
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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 10:26
CJB1 wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
I presume by that you mean Quins. I know Sarries are about to go down, but they've been a London side for much of their existence. And London Irish (the clue is in the name) are soon to move back, aren't they? Wasps are lost to the capital, of course ...
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I didn't include the Not Nots, nor the Sorries nor the Pests as non have been in London for a long while, I know the Irish have moved back, but as itinerant clubs I did exclude them from my thoughts.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 11:38
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
Trouble is there are lots of alternative attractions in the capital, such as football (or there used to be) unlike in the sticks where often the rugby club is at the heart of the community.
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RAID ON
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 14:19
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Leicester city have a very loyal following and have had for decades and to be fair most of the "northern footy clubs are well followed. The elephant in the room is Brum, they never have had a "big" rugby club, Moseley were the only first class side there and the City and the Villa are not really huge footy clubs either(now having opened a can of worms...……….I'm off lol).If(when) Coventry get back into the Premiership, the midlands will be dominating the league again.
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Posted By: cobbler
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 18:49
Raider999 wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
Trouble is there are lots of alternative attractions in the capital, such as football (or there used to be) unlike in the sticks where often the rugby club is at the heart of the community. |
I think your post should have said "alternative attractions in all big cities" (one of which is London). You are right that outside cities the rugby club is often at the heart of the community and hence able to attract much better support and sponsorship than city clubs. One only needs to look at the number of small town clubs (in all 4 regions) that dominate levels 3 to 5 to see that.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 21:47
cobbler wrote:
Raider999 wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
Trouble is there are lots of alternative attractions in the capital, such as football (or there used to be) unlike in the sticks where often the rugby club is at the heart of the community. |
I think your post should have said "alternative attractions in all big cities" (one of which is London). You are right that outside cities the rugby club is often at the heart of the community and hence able to attract much better support and sponsorship than city clubs. One only needs to look at the number of small town clubs (in all 4 regions) that dominate levels 3 to 5 to see that. |
No I meant London, as London was specifically mentioned in TigerBurnies post.
I don't think you can compare the draw of Leicester City to the combined draw of Aresenal, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Tottenham, West Ham not to mention the other Non-premier clubs.
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RAID ON
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 22:28
Raider999 wrote:
cobbler wrote:
Raider999 wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
Trouble is there are lots of alternative attractions in the capital, such as football (or there used to be) unlike in the sticks where often the rugby club is at the heart of the community. |
I think your post should have said "alternative attractions in all big cities" (one of which is London). You are right that outside cities the rugby club is often at the heart of the community and hence able to attract much better support and sponsorship than city clubs. One only needs to look at the number of small town clubs (in all 4 regions) that dominate levels 3 to 5 to see that. |
No I meant London, as London was specifically mentioned in TigerBurnies post.
I don't think you can compare the draw of Leicester City to the combined draw of Aresenal, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Tottenham, West Ham not to mention the other Non-premier clubs. |
I can when talking about a club less than 5 miles from them, but we could say there's a few clubs outside of London that have a few followers.
I shall ask some of the people who have experience of both Nat2 leagues and see what they think about the perceived differences between the two.
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Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 08:51
tigerburnie wrote:
CJB1 wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
I presume by that you mean Quins. I know Sarries are about to go down, but they've been a London side for much of their existence. And London Irish (the clue is in the name) are soon to move back, aren't they? Wasps are lost to the capital, of course ...
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I didn't include the Not Nots, nor the Sorries nor the Pests as non have been in London for a long while, I know the Irish have moved back, but as itinerant clubs I did exclude them from my thoughts. |
I certainly hold no brief for Sarries, but having to regularly drive past their ground, in the *London Borough of Barnet* no less (and well in it too - it's on a parallel distance outside the centre of London as Hendon and Walthamstow) - I'm not sure you can say they "haven't been in London for a long time."
I'd give you they *weren't* - but the Watford days are, er, a while ago.
It would be news to the millions of Londoners that live, in London, further out than Saracens' ground for starters.
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keep the faith
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 09:26
tigerburnie wrote:
Raider999 wrote:
cobbler wrote:
Raider999 wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
I guess it depends on how far you want to go back, looking at Nat 1, around half the clubs were "first class" sides that maybe come from a position of being in a stronger place both on and off the field. The other half have come from the lower ranks and are on the rise despite not having the history and previous resources behind them. Small town/village sides are doing very well in the modern game, some with huge Premiership sides just down the road taking pretty much all the fan base away. Leicester Lions and Hinckley are surrounded by Premiership and Championship sides, you could argue that London with it's millions of population and only one resident Premiership side should have far more sides higher up and better supported as they have the resources behind them. |
Trouble is there are lots of alternative attractions in the capital, such as football (or there used to be) unlike in the sticks where often the rugby club is at the heart of the community. |
I think your post should have said "alternative attractions in all big cities" (one of which is London). You are right that outside cities the rugby club is often at the heart of the community and hence able to attract much better support and sponsorship than city clubs. One only needs to look at the number of small town clubs (in all 4 regions) that dominate levels 3 to 5 to see that. |
No I meant London, as London was specifically mentioned in TigerBurnies post.
I don't think you can compare the draw of Leicester City to the combined draw of Aresenal, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Tottenham, West Ham not to mention the other Non-premier clubs. |
I can when talking about a club less than 5 miles from them, but we could say there's a few clubs outside of London that have a few followers.
I shall ask some of the people who have experience of both Nat2 leagues and see what they think about the perceived differences between the two. |
Whilst in Yorkshire last Autumn we watched Otley v Stourbridge - small but vocal crowd watched an uninspiring game. Our general thoughts were that it was slightly slower and more attritional than the southern division.
I know this was only one game, but Darth's analysis of the play-off game stats suggests the Southern league is a slightly higher standard.
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RAID ON
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Posted By: greeneyed
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 09:46
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A few years ago a former coach of the England national team once told me that in his opinion most of the best rugby players in the country are playing in south Lancashire and West Yorkshire. And they are all playing rugby league.
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Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 09:52
greeneyed wrote:
A few years ago a former coach of the England national team once told me that in his opinion most of the best rugby players in the country are playing in south Lancashire and West Yorkshire. And they are all playing rugby league. |
How many years ago?
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Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 18:23
I suspect that the point being made was that a significant no of skilled players in the N are playing RL and consequently the standard in the North is diluted.
Players move back and to between codes nowadays but I think that the point is a fair one.
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Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 18:24
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Certainly the Hull derby this season was a whole lot better than the Sale v Sarries cup game on the same night.
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Posted By: BeeBumble
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 19:35
Pappashanga wrote:
I recall our promotion playoff to get into National One. Caldy fought us like tigers. We had an 18 year old Kyle Sinckler in the front row.
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Tigers to a man; just not quite enough of 'm 😁
🐅🐅🐅 🐅🐅 🐅 🐅
🐅 🐅 🐅 🐅 🐅 🐅 🐅
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Me? I'm just buzzin' around!
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