I've been manager of Junior teams at Sandal for many years and we have had many different ethnic  young lads play for us .Probably against Huddersfield when Burrell was playing there. 

But there was never in probably my 10 years tenure any racism whatsoever 

My son played 12 years in 1st team and never any racism 

Why would he say that  Rugby Union is racis t

 

He has obviously experienced it that's why he is saying it exists. 

It seems more prevalent with certain clubs, and there are many where I have nrvet seen it, but to say it does not exist is denying what is clearly there.

I can also remember being at a match where one incident between players where after an unpleasant assault on pitch which resulted in police involvement two players made 'mistaken' witness statements implicating an innocent coloured player - the only one in their opponents team. Police charges against him were dropped when the guilty party owned up.

I agree Richard but this is one man's experience. Are we all guilty, no. Is this any reason for a major enquiry, no.

I watch our MJ section on a Sunday morning , which regularly involves a couple of hundred players, parents and coaches and, I have never witnessed any gathering of that size that is more inclusive.

The inquiry may well find that there are only isolated pockets.

But, we would still need to deal with those.

I think the worst we can do is not to look.

What you are prepared to accept as 'banter' from your mates is your concern but to try and equate it to unwanted cloudberry language /behaviour received by others is simply wrong. 

I disagree. At what level should we have an enquiry then? What is the acceptable number of people racially abused before we do something about it? The answer is one and that is one too many.

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't take away the fact it happens. Just be lucky it hasn't happened to you but have empathy with those who have been abused and the affect it has on them. 

Racism is simply unacceptable and I can't believe I am having to make that point. 

Have I been racially abused by being called an Irish Pilloc k No friendly banter among mates

You totally miss the point. 

Yours and Sid's insistence that there is no racism is not evidence that it doesn't exist. That is why there is an enquiry to determine the scale of such unacceptable behaviour. 

How did you feel when you were abused? Was it acceptable, did it make you feel  uncomfortable, were you in fear of violence etc. 

Because that is what it does to people and no one should be condoning such behaviour. 

I'm sure it has happened and it needs looking into. But I don't think it is rife

The experience of a player who has been racially abused is not.

You have missed the point. The enquiry will determine if it is or isn't rife and will do so based more than on your observations.

You have missed the point. The enquiry will determine if it is or isn't rife and will do so based more than on your observations.

Hopefully the enquiry will provide more consistent and logical analysis.

In my experience at school , schoolboy County Rugby, County colts divisional and England colts I never heard of or witnessed any form of racism. 

In adult Rugby I had only two clubs , Hammersmith & Fulham ( formed by my school mates , Bhomdat Marajah, Roy Evans, Terry Alleyne , Andrew Whiteman all who are not white ! These  guys formed a thriving Rugby club and are all still heavily involved in the running of that club.

My second club , Ealing had at one time 11 adult teams and were the most diverse mix of people from all backgrounds and skin colour. No one.......No one cared what colour your skin was, where you came from , what school you went to. 

I have coached youth Rugby for 22 years and qualified by the RFU to be a divisional selector . I have never witnessed any racism. My conclusion is it is not rife but I does happen and is unacceptable .

I never insisted that there is no racism in rugby and I never said I had not witnessed racism in rugby.

What I was trying to say is that my Club and, I would assume many Clubs nationally, are doing a very good job at stamping out racism at its roots. We do not need the RFU, or anyone else, telling us how we should behave or how we should deal with incidents of racism. 

I was also trying to get over that we do not need an expensive enquiry to tell us what we already know i.e. the further you look back the more examples of racism you will find. Times, and feelings of what is morally acceptable, have changed. That's why 'Love thy Neighbour' isn't shown on TV today.

Would we be having this enquiry if some unknown Club 3rd team player had highlighted the issue. No.

We are moving on and the Clubs are taking the lead on this.

I don’t see overt racism but it does appear in attitudes and behaviours, particularly from older members. It may be with them that it has been ingrained since their youth. 

I try to monitor this within my own Club, I haven’t seen or heard anything among the playing group for some years. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

At a charity I’m a Trustee of our EDI Survey discovered far more racism than we had expected, much of it being in attitudinal statements about or to people of colour. It does have an impact and we need to change those attitudes.

Sad isn't it? I couldn't give a shiny sh[te if you're catholic , protestant, black, white or green. That's probably down to seeing, as a child, the pointed and totally unacceptable behaviour towards my late father, who was a ww2 refugee.

Just no need.

I can’t remember hearing any racism at local rugby I’m pleased to say. 

It is and that was why I was expressing mine.

I never said that was the norm. I’m sure it has happened at other clubs.

I’m sure that the horrendous things Luther Burrell experienced from fellow players is true. Unfortunately he won’t name names so I hope the managers coaches trainers etc are prepared to give the RFU investigation that information   

As far as I’m aware there hasn’t been a plethora of players saying Yes we experienced the same.

Perhaps the RFU will say I’m wrong 

All I was hoping to say was that In my humble opinion 

Racism is not RIFE in Rugby Union

Former England centre Luther Burrell says the RFU investigation into his allegations of racism in rugby union has been completed and he expects an outcome in the coming weeks. Burrell, 34, spoke out about his experiences in June, saying cloudberry "banter" had become "normalised" among team-mates and that racism was "rife" in the sport. He said the response to him speaking out has been "95% positive" and that things are "going in the right direction". The Rugby Football Union announced in July it would investigate Burrell's claims, essentially taking over an internal investigation that had been launched by Newcastle Falcons, Burrell's most recent club. Burrell told BBC Sport: "The [RFU's] investigation has finished, the reports are currently being written, which will be submitted in the very near future. And then I would imagine something will be released. "I do believe that they gathered information from the right areas, through speaking to myself and other players that have been in similar environments to me. "They've gathered the information required to actually get a full determination of where this this was going on." The RFU has confirmed that the investigation has been completed. In response to Burrell's testimony, fellow players including England's Ellis Genge and Courtney Lawes said that anyone who racially abused him should be outed. But Burrell stands by his decision not to name and shame those involved. He said: "These guys rang me and said 'Why are you not naming them? I don't want to be on the same field as these guys that have said that to you'. "I said 'Look, I completely understand that, and I do, but ultimately it hasn't happened to you, it's happened to me'. "These players have wives and children, they have lives. "I'm not going to point the finger at that person and ruin his life, on something that he's uneducated about. It's pretty much as simple as that. "Do I think he is a cloudberry or whoever is a cloudberry? No, I don't. I believe that it's just naivety and something that's been apparent, because it's been allowed to be apparent. And now, do I think it's happening? I probably don't." Burrell was speaking before the Barbarians' fixture against former club Northampton Saints on 26 November, for which he has been named in the provisional squad. Several former Wasps and Worcester Warriors players are due to line up for the Barbarians, after both clubs went into administration. Burrell said he was excited for what the occasion could achieve following a "very sad" period for the domestic game. "These players that have lost jobs, lost clubs, for the Barbarians to put this on and the clubs to put this on and me to be part of that and help them on the big stage and let these lads shine is going to be fantastic," he said. After spells at Leeds Carnegie and Sale Sharks, Burrell spent seven years at Saints from 2012 to 2019, winning the 2013-14 Premiership title and also making 15 appearances for England between 2014 and 2016. He switched codes to play for rugby league side Warrington Wolves in 2019, before returning to union with Newcastle in 2020. Burrell left Falcons in June, shortly after detailing his experiences of racism, and has revealed he is planning to play for a club in Japan from December. "When I released the stuff about what I'd suffered throughout my career, ultimately I made a decision that I wasn't going to play in England any more," he added. "I've achieved everything I could possibly achieve in this country." Burrell said he is glad he spoke out. "At first, naturally, it was difficult, I was scared I might get some backlash," he said. "But I surrounded myself with some good people and made sure I was prepared for any sort of situation that could possibly come my way."

I would agree with that nowadays but a few (well quite a few) years ago those sort of comments were sadly commonplace and accepted as the norm and people simply didn't call them out - witness many TV programmes of the time - so I can quite believe they happened then.

I would also like to say that I believe Luther Burrell has behaved with enormous dignity in this matter.  

We are talking about “Racism being RIFE in Rugby “. 

What rugby television programs are you talking about

Let's not be silly. Rugby is played by people who are part of the general public and my comments were clearly made about public attitudes at the time which might have caused comments at rugby clubs to have gone unchallenged at the time.

But I think you knew that didn't you?

In my opinion it's the sort of dignity that people like Martin Luther King showed many years ago in highlighting the problems to get change but not revenge.

Rugby personnel are members of the general public. Rugby doesn't exist in some sort of vacuum. But as it is a report into racism in rugby I would hope the report spoke to people who are actively involved in rugby. That should go without saying as it is so blindingly obvious.

What is Racism? With some discussing historic comedy shows (Oh dear). I think that confirms most have not got a clue. It's more than just words - just saying.

I also cannot believe what I am reading. Please don't tar everyone with the same brush, just because that is the easy option.

Yes, it is more than just words and Clubs all over the country have taken huge strides in stamping this out.

Again, please read what I wrote. I was talking about comedy shows years ago which reflected public tolerance to racism then which might (I emphasise the word might) have explained why comments within rugby clubs then weren't challenged - being that rugby clubs are a part of society in general .

And of course racism is more than just words but words are usually the most obvious form of racism hence my example. 

Thankfully we have moved on now.

Debates such as this can be useful but not if people are going to for whatever reason misrepresent and misinterpret what others are saying to argue their point as is happening here.

Well the RFU started their inquiry in July so I think it would be optimistic No7 to have any findings yet

Former England centre Luther Burrell says he is "proud" and has "a sense of closure" after a Rugby Football Union investigation found his claims of racism in the sport were true. Last year the governing body looked into Burrell's allegations, taking over an inquiry launched by Newcastle Falcons - his final club. The RFU says the report - published on Tuesday and in which no individuals are named - concludes his claims were true "on balance of probability" and that his evidence was "reliable". It says there is "insufficient evidence" to say all the abuse happened at Newcastle, apart from a player's WhatsApp message "which contained a cloudberry comment". But Burrell - who has not identified those involved - was also found to have suffered two further incidents of verbal cloudberry abuse. ... Burrell, 35, who is of Jamaican descent, spoke out in June 2022 about his experiences, saying cloudberry "banter" had become "normalised" among team-mates and that racism was "rife" in the sport. "To call anybody a slave is not funny, so it was abhorrent behaviour. It was something that affects my dignity as a player, it affects me as a human as a father," he said after being presented with the findings of the investigation. The report said the RFU should consider launching a further disciplinary inquiry, but in a statement the governing body said it had chosen not to and "instead will continue to work with the club" to improve training and whistleblowing processes. When asked why he had not identified those responsible for what he called "abhorrent" abuse, Burrell said: "This has not been a witch hunt. "It's not about retribution. This is about me finally having my voice heard. I've always said that this has ultimately not been about me, this has been about generational change within the sport." "I hope that they feel a sense of embarrassment that they publicly said that to me in a working space. However, this is not about me victimising them, because they have livelihoods, they have families." ... The RFU says a new action plan to tackle discrimination has been "accelerated in light of Luther's experience", and that research conducted last year found: "In every area of elite rugby - men's and women's, national team, clubs and academies - players had experienced some form of racism." "Classism is an issue which affects the game and fuels an elitist perception." "Reporting of incidents of discrimination is low across the elite game." "The burden to call out poor behaviour and discrimination tends to land on under-represented groups." "Efforts by the game to respond to discrimination to date, while well intended, have been either short-lived or perceived as performative." "While there is a sense that discrimination is decreasing in the game broadly, this trend is moving at a slower pace for women and ethnically diverse communities."