2024/25 Season thoughts
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Forum Name: National 1
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Topic: 2024/25 Season thoughts
Posted By: tigerburnie
Subject: 2024/25 Season thoughts
Date Posted: 26 May 2024 at 16:14
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With it being a tad quiet whilst we wait for a flurry of news about recruitment and pre season games I thought I'd have a look at the sides as they stand now. No news from Moseley yet, but I do expect them to be competing in the top four this coming season. I note Bishops Stortfords head coach is stepping down from the role, how will that effect the side as they will surely wish to be higher up the league after a close battle at seasons end. Blackheath look to be recruiting strongly already, making a clear statement of intent. Darlington Mowden Park had a solid season last time and will no doubt have eyes aimed higher this term. Dings Crusaders had a nip and tuck tussle in Nat2 West and will no doubt be keen to make the most of the step, however, the step is a very large one, I think they may be one of the sides fighting at the wrong end of the league next year. Esher are another promoted side who may also find life tough in this league, no disrespect to either of the new promoted sides, but I witnessed this at the beginning of last season. Leicester Lions, did really well in some results and I think were a little slow off the mark even with a first game win. I expect another tough season but fancy with that experience, they could just kick on and be higher up the table, retaining players and recruitment will be telling for all these three clubs. Plymouth Albion had another good season and I am sure they will be hoping to be in the upper end battle this season. Rams will surely be hoping for promotion, but there are a lot of very good sides to spoil their plans, again player recruitment and retention will be key.. Richmond possibly under performed to how they might have hoped for, so I expect a big push from them too. Rosslyn Park seem from a distance to be a bit of an enigma, always close, but not quite there, will this be their season? Rotherham had a great campaign in Nat 2 North, are they back on track and looking to press on, or will they find the step up a challenge like the other promoted sides in this most competitive of leagues. Sale Fc had a pretty poor season compared to the close battle at the top the season before, a late surge saving them from the end of season dog fight. Last but not least Sedgley Park had a fair season, but I fancy they will be another club with ambitions higher up the league. To finalise this I would not make any predictions yet, some players may move on/retire/move around and it will again the most competitive of leagues, the fixture list may well give us all the lift in excitement before it all kicks off again. On a personal note, I need to improve dramatically in the prediction league, I was pretty rubbish really. |
Replies:
Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 26 May 2024 at 20:55
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Early days, but if the sides remain more or less the same I would expect Rams to win the league at a canter. I think Rotherham and Esher will avoid the relegation dog-fight, and Sale will return to the top 5. Leicester Lions, Dings and Stortford likely to struggle. But who knows what the transfers in/out will be !
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Posted By: Pilier
Date Posted: 27 May 2024 at 15:11
| Do not underestimate Dings, last year they had considerable help from Bristol Bears and the news on the M4 that it will be even greater next season. |
Posted By: Storty
Date Posted: 27 May 2024 at 19:58
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On paper Rams should have a free run at the title as none of the others have had their consistency over recent seasons. However, we'll have to wait until the transfers are done to see if there is another Chinnor this season. Stortford are in quite an odd situation. Two seasons ago, there were joint head coaches, last season one resigned and the other took over sole charge. This coming season he's resigned as the other has come back! The captain has also retired, which is a big loss, but if that's the only retirement and we get a couple in I think we should be able to have a better season than last.
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Posted By: Breakdown
Date Posted: 29 May 2024 at 14:41
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Prem sides have to slash their squad sizes to 35+12 Academy, which means some are going to drop 20+ players (Bath and Quins both have more than 70 players registered in some fashion). While most will be picked up in the Championship, there will be a trickle-down effect to lower leagues which means any club that sees contracted players on salaries as their way up will have a lot more talent to choose from. ------------- Broken down. Beyond repair. |
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 29 May 2024 at 19:40
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I would put Rams, Plymouth and Rosslyn Park in top three. Difficult to judge teams coming up, sometimes after relegation, they seem stronger on return. Blackheath have made a few signings, but quiet from other cubs on re-signings and signings. Usually by Christmas you get an idea of top and bottom. Any way, enjoy the summer break and roll on next season. ------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 31 May 2024 at 10:50
| Well the fixture list appearing is a starting point for a conversation, Leicester Lions visit last years rival Bishop Stortford for the opener, both will see that as laying down a marker and should prove to be a very interesting fixture. |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2024 at 14:28
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With Cambridge and Chinnor being excluded from the Premiership Cup, I cannot help but feel jealous at the thought of the continuity of fixtures in the National leagues. I once thought that Level 4 to 3 was an unimaginable leap but I now know that Level 3 to 2 is worse. Nick Easter (Chinnor coach) was spot on in his Rugby Paper article - National leagues fixture list certainty is a real bonus. My message to aspiring Level 3 teams is forget the Championship; the RFU, CVC and Premiership clubs have too much control. Note what problems Ealing Trailfinders have had with the Premiership cartel. Even though it's playing into the RFU's hands, stay in National One until the
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2024 at 15:19
| There have been a lot of changes at Leicester Lions so no real idea as to how the coming season will go, the core of the side is still there and there are some exciting looking new signings both on the field and in the coaching staff. I don't think we will be worrying the the Championship sides this season, but am hopeful of a fruitful season ahead. |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2024 at 16:16
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What will affect many of the Nat 1 teams will be the proposed ground and Facilities Criteria going forward into the Championship / Prem 2. There are several clubs who will find it difficult to meet it. However many in this board have commented on the issues between Championship and Premiership, just look at the structure of the fixtures in the championship no league game until 21st September two cup blocks 26th October to 23rd November, 5 weeks and 1st February to 15th March, 7 weeks. totalling 12 weeks which Chinnor and Cambridge have to fill, and the proposed plan for 25/26 is for a 16 team cup, 10 premiership sides and 6 Championship with the other 8 (if the league goes to 14 team) to find alternative fixtures, possibly an 8 team cup or playing a competition with Welsh Sides, but this has been done before with no sponsorship and clubs pulling out at the last minute caused it to fold. The other issue the fixture list has been drawn out to match the premiership fixtures and finishes this season on 31st May, this is to ensure that both leagues finish at the same time with the play off between the Bottom Premier club and the top Championship cup to take place on the first two weeks in June!! Subject to the Championship club meeting the revised Prem Criteria. This would leave the Championship Club, should they win the play off, very little time to prepare a squad for the Premiership season. Whilst the ground criteria has been made more flexible it still means they will need to commit to increasing their ground Capacity to 10,000 in 4 years with no guarantee of staying in the premiership. In my view National 1 is probably the best league to be in for any club unless you have very deep pockets!!!
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 11:08
 ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
workerbee wrote:Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 12:31
While I have no issues with most of this, I can't agree that a 1000 capacity is necessarily a bad thing. A four year build-out (and let's face it, I can't see that 'temporary' facilities would be ruled out as long as the necessary toilets/changing/f&b etc. facilities are provided) should be achievable for any club with any ambition to succeed. All but two current Prem clubs (one on 6k and one on 7k) average over this figure already. Why would the prem want to add a third (assuming Newcastle stay put of course)? ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 12:56
| In my book NL1 clubs would be well advised to make sure their ground capacity is one less than the Championship minimum. That way they can enjoy all the benefits of playing NL rugby without the danger of being promoted to a joke league! |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 13:54
Or just decline promotion? ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 14:39
Possibly but in football you used to be able to do that at the lower levels but the FA didn't like it and decided that clubs who declined promotion would be relegated instead. My suggestion avoids that possibility.
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 15:34
| I do not believe it is possible to "decline promotion" just as it is unacceptable to request to go down 2 leagues if a club is really struggling and getting tonked every week. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 16:28
So you'd like to have a ladder that stops 22/24/26 rungs shy of the very top? Takes all sorts I guess, but I'm willing to bet there are many clubs at level three (and probably lower) that don't agree with you. Probably including your own? ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: semisonic
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 16:48
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People I've spoken to at my club seem to be 50/50 on wanting promotion (I am one of the ones who does want it). The hope would be that a 14 team Championship/Prem 2 would not be a "joke league" but a competitive competition with the same amount of home fixtures as we currently have and hopefully more of a draw due to the bigger name teams. For Moseley I would guess we would get more away fans hosting Coventry than we do the entire National 1 season combined, as only Plymouth tend to bring a coach load (although Rotherham, Dings and Leicester probably will this season as well, Rams and Chinnor both did last year chasing the promotion so potentially more). Really I suppose it will be up to the people funding the club because central funding is not enough to run more than part-time.
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Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 20:42
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If you don’t start the season looking to win all your games and see where you end up what’s the point. The likelihood is that you won’t. Why would you decline the opportunity to try at a higher level. With L2 returning to14 teams there is more of a chance of staying there and getting a chance to establish yourselves at that level. ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 21:28
| Well Roth will certainly be very competitive this season if tonight’s home 40 points to 7 win against Leeds Tykes is anything to go by. Signed some great players in addition to the squad retained from last season. |
Posted By: Sedge Tiger
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 21:32
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Rabbie As you get older you talk more sense😂😂😂For once 😂. I Totally agree with you. Who in their right minds (player/coach/Chairman) would start the season believing they would fail or as a second option, go totally out for it win the title then decide on some bizarre moral grounds and decline promotion. Bonkers!!! The game is struggling already, misplaced martyrdom is not required here. I’m looking forward to another highly competitive National League One. Good luck to one and all. All the best ST
------------- Give him one with handles on |
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 21:41
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Ah ST My wife says the exact opposite, she thinks I get dafter and dafter ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Sedge Tiger
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 21:51
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Rabbie She may have a point!!!😂😂 Come on Club. See you in the season All the best ST ------------- Give him one with handles on |
Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 21:52
Looking forward to returning to Clifton Lane for a spirited contest anyway. ------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group" |
Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 22:39
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Depends how you are measuring them. Comparing with Leeds teams 10-15 years ago for sure, but they were very good last season & see them tearing it up in Nat 2 this season. Only a friendly ( if there is such a thing in Rugby) but, as I say, very encouraging.
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Posted By: semisonic
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2024 at 12:53
A lot of us were pulling for Roth to get promoted instead of Leeds, although we don't tend to get results at Clifton Lane, it's the best away scran in National 1, typified by the unique situation of more people going to get food before going to the bar when we arrive.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2024 at 16:28
Still good then? Always was years ago. Haven't had cause to go to CL for many years now though. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 12:33
Of course I didn't say that. If clubs want to go for promotion then good luck to them. I was giving my opinion of what clubs would be best advised to do.
Yes that's the purpose of message boards. It allows "all sorts" to express their view. And I'm sure there are many who disagree with me and maybe a few that agree with me. That's the good thing about message boards. It would be rather boring if everyone posted the same view don't you think?
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 15:16
Which is why I posted mine... ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 14:07
And no problem with that. Just not quite sure why you needed to suggest I had said something I hadn't and then wanted to have a bet on the obvious that there would be people who disagreed with me. But as you so elegantly put it "Takes all sorts I guess".
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Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2024 at 07:49
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I have to say that I think DMP could make a challenge this season, last couple of years the scrum has been a bit of a weakness with not many props etc and most games at least one prop playing full 80mins. It seems them have rectified the above and last seasons ‘weakness’ could be this seasons strength
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2024 at 09:56
| I was a bit concerned after a raft of changes at Leicester Lions but after watching the game last weekend against a big and useful Luctonians side, I am more confident that they will be competitive in the most challenging of leagues. |
Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2024 at 10:13
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[QUOTE=front5]I have to say that I think DMP could make a challenge this season, last couple of years the scrum has been a bit of a weakness with not many props etc and most games at least one prop playing full 80mins. It seems them have rectified the above and last seasons ‘weakness’ could be this seasons strength [/QUOTEBack in the day. A prop having to play 80 minutes
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Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2024 at 10:19
| What a number of Nat 1 clubs will need to look at will be the criteria for Prem 2 when the details are released, which will require some upgrading for a number of clubs if they want to take the next step. |
Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2024 at 11:10
Knowing the RFU I suspect the criteria for Prem 2 will be released some time in April '25.  ------------- Enjoying life! |
Posted By: JZSmith
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2024 at 12:23
I suspect the capacity requirement for Prem 2 will be one less than Wasps can achieve wherever they pitch up next!
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Posted By: PropDad
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2024 at 03:51
. . . and then ‘updated’ (i.e. completely changed) in August 2025 !!!
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