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London Scottish - what is the point?

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Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=19325
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Topic: London Scottish - what is the point?
Posted By: WEvans
Subject: London Scottish - what is the point?
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 12:34
Just seen the London Scottish team to play Bedford tomorrow. As far as I can see the starting XV has ten loan players (7 Quins, 2 Ealing & 1 Wasps). Forgetting for the moment whether this is fair or not to the other teams in the league I wonder what actually is the point of being a LS supporter at the moment?

Are LS supporters happy watching a team of guests just to be able to play in the Championship - or would they prefer to be watching a team of their own players playing at a lower level?

To me it seems they are throwing away their heritage and their identity just to be playing in the Championship.



Replies:
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 12:53
I could not agree more, the current rules allow 10 Dual reg and 3 loan players which is quite ridiculous. Hartpury used the full amount during their relegation game with Richmond a few years ago. 

What does this say to Clubs like Caldy and Richmond and others that are prepared to develop their own talent and run successful 2nd and 3rd XVs.

I think it devalues the league. It also allows Prem clubs to stockpile talent!


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Run with it


Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 13:00
Absolutely spot on guys.

Tomorrow's 23 man Caldy squad against Richmond has 0 loan or dual reg players........I personally do not object to clubs giving a couple of young loan/dual reg players game time or their use in an injury crisis .........but wholesale use just erodes and diminishes everything club rugby is meant to be about


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''The future isn't what it used to be''


Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 13:09
Agree completely Big Eddie. We've had some good lads from Exeter over the years and they've bought in to being at the club and showed great commitment. It works the other way, too - when Cornish boys are given the chance to join Exeter and have the chance to play at the top level. This will remain the case, unfortunately until the (very) long awaited stadium is started. 
Three or four dual reg or loanees is about right. The situation at LS is ridiculous and makes a mockery of league.


Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 18:33
How many clubs only have a first XV?
Bedford seem to only have a senior XV and a joint Colts team with Bedford Ath.


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The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 19:12
Agree with the above. Totally pointless.
One droning bagpiper on the touchline does not a London Scottish team make of this bunch of mercenaries.
I shall not be attending the RAG this season to watch them.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 20:17
OMG !  No Oldnick in attendance......

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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 20:28
I think the following are one team clubs

Bedford
Coventry
Leeds Tykes
Nottingham
Pirates
Plymouth Albion
Rotherham

I am prepared to stand corrected.
There are plenty of one team clubs in the lower reaches.



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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2022 at 21:15
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I think the following are one team clubs

Bedford
Coventry
Leeds Tykes
Nottingham
Pirates
Plymouth Albion
Rotherham

I am prepared to stand corrected.
There are plenty of one team clubs in the lower reaches.


The history of Cornish Pirates is quite complicated, but as far as I'm aware Cornish Pirates are still the 1st XV of Penzance and Newlyn RFC. The plan to "rebrand" the 1st XV as Cornish Pirates was approved by the membership in 2005. PZ and N has a colts section and a mini/junior section. When the professional era began a lot of players were drafted in (over a few seasons) and many of those who formerly made up the 1st XV now became the 2nd XV. This team was pretty strong and many 2nd XVs wouldn't play them (there were no 2nd team leagues back then). So these guys weren't getting any rugby and drifted off to other clubs. This meant that players produced by the club would have to go to other clubs to continue playing. Not ideal. So, Mounts Bay RFC was formed as a separate entity so they could enter the leagues. They were forced to play two seasons of friendlies before being allowed to take their place in the lowest league. It worked OK for a while, but then a local business man believed he could emulate the success of PZ and N and started to throw a lot of money at Mounts Bay, recruiting a lot of very good players. So most of the guys coming out of the colts still had to move to other clubs for senior rugby.Mounts Bay began a meteoric rise up the league ladder until the backer went bust and it all disappeared almost overnight. After a monumental effort by a few former players Pirates Amateurs was born and they have now consolidated and, playing at The Mennaye, are a natural place for local boys to play their rugby. Cornwall RFU, at the time, would not allow second teams to enter the league, so The Ams had to be formed as a separate club with its own officials and constitution. It is written into their constitution that players will not be paid (to avoid a repeat of the Mounts Bay debacle). Last season, with a squad made up almost exclusively of graduates of the PZ and N RFC Junior section, they won the Cornwall Devon league and have started this season in Western Counties West.
Nowadays there is a very good relationship between the Ams and the Cornish Pirates - our club captain, John Stevens, helps out with the coaching on a regular basis. 


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 09:48
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I think the following are one team clubs

Bedford
Coventry
Leeds Tykes
Nottingham
Pirates
Plymouth Albion
Rotherham

I am prepared to stand corrected.
There are plenty of one team clubs in the lower reaches.

Plenty in the Prem too, where the money is directed.
Cov did run a second team for a while, but cry-offs made it unviable. Now they have to content themselves with occasional 'Nighthawk' games against invitation sides, RAF, Army, and so on. Not ideal, but that's about the best they can do with so little in the way of suitable opposition locally.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 10:05
Wasps have no second team, one of the reasons why there's no "A" league any more.


Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 10:49
There have previously been several LS supporters active on RM and offering their thoughts. I don't know their individual situations, but one wonders whether there's a connection between them not being so active recently and the circumstances outlined on this thread...


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 11:00
The Cov academy does however play rather more matches than the second team managed to.


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 11:05
The club is skint

The board change their decision every season

I'd prefer the current arrangements to the club no longer being here - i view this current situation as the club treading water, until a proper plan of action can be put in place.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 11:17
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Wasps have no second team, one of the reasons why there's no "A" league any more.
That was my point. The 'monied' clubs don't do it, so why should the have-nots?


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 11:20
Originally posted by OldNick OldNick wrote:

The Cov academy does however play rather more matches than the second team managed to.
True, but that's a joint venture with the college, so not sure it counts. Maybe I do them a disservice - unintentionally.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 12:35
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

The club is skint

The board change their decision every season

I'd prefer the current arrangements to the club no longer being here - i view this current situation as the club treading water, until a proper plan of action can be put in place.

But is signing an agreement with Harlequins to basically allow themselves to be used to give Quins fringe players match practice a short-term plan whilst a proper plan is put in place? And can a proper plan be put in place anyway by a board who seem to change direction every season as you say?

I'd argue that it isn't just a choice of doing what they are doing now or failing to exist as many other clubs have proved. Just take a short stroll to Old Deer Park and see London Welsh a fellow exiles club flourishing and remaining true to themselves.

But my real reason for starting this thread was to see what LS supporters think about it but maybe as islander suggested they have taken their support elsewhere. 


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2022 at 19:03

So the partnership is actually paid for by LS...

I've no idea why

For years the board in various ways have thrown money at short/term solutions or various projects.

The amateur side of the club has been hurt because of it. The LS Lions are totally alien to the LS 1st XV. The M&J section is a mess. And i doubt there's a plan for past May 2023 yet.


Posted By: ExtraB
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2022 at 11:07
The LS Lions have absolutely no relationship with the Championship team. Our Lions players, coaches and supporters are keeping the traditions of the club alive. We are in a great league which includes Ealing Am’s, Sarries, Wasps. Ealing don’t seem to have much to do with the Trailfinders and are a good representation of the traditional Ealing club. 

For what it’s worth I don’t think Scottish should continue in the championship, it’s all a bit pointless… but I respect the energy, passion and effort of those who try to make it work


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Car'n the Rams!


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 18:47
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:


Are LS supporters happy watching a team of guests just to be able to play in the Championship - or would they prefer to be watching a team of their own players playing at a lower level?


The way I see it is once they pull on my teams jersey, they are my clubs players and I would shout and cheer them on.




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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 20:56
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:


Are LS supporters happy watching a team of guests just to be able to play in the Championship - or would they prefer to be watching a team of their own players playing at a lower level?


The way I see it is once they pull on my teams jersey, they are my clubs players and I would shout and cheer them on.

Amen to that.




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Speak softly, but carry a big stick.


Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 21:27
Call them what you like, they made Bedford work for that win in the second half.

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The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2022 at 23:29
Originally posted by ExtraB ExtraB wrote:

The LS Lions have absolutely no relationship with the Championship team. Our Lions players, coaches and supporters are keeping the traditions of the club alive. We are in a great league which includes Ealing Am’s, Sarries, Wasps. Ealing don’t seem to have much to do with the Trailfinders and are a good representation of the traditional Ealing club. 

For what it’s worth I don’t think Scottish should continue in the championship, it’s all a bit pointless… but I respect the energy, passion and effort of those who try to make it work

Interestingly Trailfinders sponsors the Amateur side of the club to the tune of £40,000 a year.



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