Papa John's Trophy
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Forum Name: Regional 1
Forum Description: Discuss the 72 clubs in the fifth level of the English game.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=19668
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Topic: Papa John's Trophy
Posted By: Robb
Subject: Papa John's Trophy
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2023 at 18:57
Just thought i'd start a thread in anticipation of the Pizza Trophy. Draw after the 11th of March fixtures and only the Cup competition ends at Twickenham (at least according to what's released). But looking forward to seeing how this works out (also will the club specific codes for cheap pizza be valid everywhere?).
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Replies:
Posted By: Lord_Kitchener
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 11:27
Robb just wants his discounted Pizza
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 11:48
Lord_Kitchener wrote:
Robb just wants his discounted Pizza ![Handshake Handshake](smileys/smiley42.gif) |
No, I want to see this be a good competition and not another farce from the RFU.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 11:58
I find it interesting that they found a sponsor for this, but not for the Championship, Championship Cup or the National Leagues.
I know there is a glamour to a cup final.
However, there are weasel words in the announcement that it will be held at Twickenham or other prestigious stadium. So prepare for a trip to Darlington. :-)
I will also await with bated breath the scope of the travel bursary.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 12:08
Camquin wrote:
I find it interesting that they found a sponsor for this, but not for the Championship, Championship Cup or the National Leagues.
I know there is a glamour to a cup final.
However, there are weasel words in the announcement that it will be held at Twickenham or other prestigious stadium. So prepare for a trip to Darlington. :-)
I will also await with bated breath the scope of the travel bursary.
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Twickenham is a prestigious stadium?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 12:12
I know several players who enjoy playing thee, though as it was the Army v navy game they were talking about, perhaps it was the after game celebrations.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Lord_Kitchener
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 12:15
Camquin wrote:
I find it interesting that they found a sponsor for this, but not for the Championship, Championship Cup or the National Leagues.
I know there is a glamour to a cup final.
However, there are weasel words in the announcement that it will be held at Twickenham or other prestigious stadium. So prepare for a trip to Darlington. :-)
I will also await with bated breath the scope of the travel bursary.
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Regional 1 scheduled for 29th/30th April. Aren't England Women playing then against France? Curtain Raiser?
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Posted By: WESTCOMBE RANGER
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 12:31
That would make sense. Does anyone know which clubs that have declared their intentions to enter ?
------------- The older I get, the better I was.
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Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 15:00
Most will won't they? What else are we going to do in April - having the last league game of the season on 11 March is just barnmy - all our biggest bar takes are for league games in September/October and March/April as most spectators don't want to freeze there butt's off in the winter!
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 15:17
Well for 50% of entrants from Level 7 down their season will end if they lose in Round 1 as its straight knockout. The Regional 1 & 2 Cups are pool based I think.
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 15:23
I understand that 62% of clubs have entered, but no idea of splits by level or region/ county.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 16:07
Level 5 62 of 72 entered Level 6 106 of 144 entered Level 7 121 of 217 entered Level 8 86 of 312 entered Level 9 and below around 60% entry
need to point out that at Level 8 there a lot of Lower XVs who are not eligible to enter
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 17:06
So presumably two level 6 sides go up to level 5 to make 64
So 24 level 7 sides fill in level 6 to make 128
leaving 97 + 86 = 183 = 128 + 57 or three groups of 64 with 7 byes in the first round.
Or am I being too sensible again.
What do 2nd Xvs do for the rest of the season?
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 20:43
Camquin wrote:
Or am I being too sensible again.
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Yes, you are! The lowest level competition at Regional 1 (the Bowl) features 'remaining teams, 9th-12 place, max 24 teams'. Despite this, the first round is marked 'Last 32'.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2023 at 11:32
Given the draw is going to be next week, any ideas as to when?
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2023 at 13:18
Wednesday
Regional Cups - starting 25th March
Counties Cups - starting 1st April (no joke)
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 08:46
I assume until the leagues conclude we won’t know the fixtures?
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 12:28
Nope as above, draw on Wednesday, fixtures out then I would think especially if you need to book a Bus or organise a sponsor which clearly RFU Competitions think you can do in five minutes.
I'm told there is some "Travel Funding" available for long distance trips, not sure what the criteria is and how much the magic RFU money tree will provide.
Think one or two in Regional South East maybe sweating or indeed looking forward to being drawn away at Camborne and vice versa. Likewise some clubs in South Cheshire might be less than please with a North East trip ..... and vice versa in the Counties draw. Wonder if they will "manage" the draw and try to keep distances short in the early rounds.
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 13:00
Is it right that the final day at twickers is on the Coronation weekend? That would a transport and accommodation nightmare 🤔
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 13:25
Neasham wrote:
Is it right that the final day at twickers is on the Coronation weekend? That would a transport and accommodation nightmare 🤔 |
The Regional 1 Championship (top tier) final is on 30th April, and all other finals will be on 7th May ![Ermm Ermm](smileys/smiley24.gif) The RFU never mentioned Twickenham - the original document only talks about the competitions "culminating in ‘Community Game Finals’ to celebrate community rugby at prestigious locations."
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 13:29
A remember looking at the numbers in the original Adult Game Review - way back in 2016.
In that plan, there were cups for everyone. The support looked generous, until you factored in travel costs.
The winning team could just about afford to buy the team a beer, and twenty straws. The runner-up was going to be out of pocket.
And yet, it would cost the RFU millions. Because a small amount of money to lots of sides soon adds up. And as soon as teams start needing overnight stays, the costs mount.
I believe the same was true in the last days of the old cup. I recall Cambridge's treasurer saying at the time that our cup run - including losing away at Old Deer Park - cost us money.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 13:37
I’ve been sent this which is apparently the latest update from RFU. Finals still at Twickenham.
“ As far as possible, all 1st XVs who finish top of their leagues at Regional 1 and 2, Counties 1, 2 and 3 & below will qualify for their Championship, and the potential to play in the final at Twickenham. The final of the Regional 1 Championship will be played on Sunday 30th April and the other Championship Finals on Sunday 7th May. All other Cup finals will be played on the weekend of 6th/7th May. In the case of the matches scheduled for the weekend of 6th/7th May it is accepted that the overlap with the County Championship programme is unavoidable given the impact of postponed matches on the club league programme. National League fixtures will be managed as normal, with the intention of finishing the league season by the scheduled date. Please refer to your league secretary for further guidance.”
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 14:58
PiffPaff wrote:
Nope as above, draw on Wednesday, fixtures out then I would think especially if you need to book a Bus or organise a sponsor which clearly RFU Competitions think you can do in five minutes.
I'm told there is some "Travel Funding" available for long distance trips, not sure what the criteria is and how much the magic RFU money tree will provide.
Think one or two in Regional South East maybe sweating or indeed looking forward to being drawn away at Camborne and vice versa. Likewise some clubs in South Cheshire might be less than please with a North East trip ..... and vice versa in the Counties draw. Wonder if they will "manage" the draw and try to keep distances short in the early rounds.
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As Regional 1 South East ends this Saturday, with a couple of catch ups, 18tn March, then Wednesday (15th?) is after most of the league ends.
Madness sees one match scheduled in Midlands 1, 1st April.
Could anyone make up such a mess?
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 15:07
Neasham wrote:
I’ve been sent this which is apparently the latest update from RFU.Finals still at Twickenham.
“ As far as possible, all 1st XVs who finish top of their leagues at Regional 1 and 2, Counties 1, 2 and 3 & below will qualify for their Championship, and the potential to play in the final at Twickenham. The final of the Regional 1 Championship will be played on Sunday 30th April and the other Championship Finals on Sunday 7th May. All other Cup finals will be played on the weekend of 6th/7th May. In the case of the matches scheduled for the weekend of 6th/7th May it is accepted that the overlap with the County Championship programme is unavoidable given the impact of postponed matches on the club league programme. National League fixtures will be managed as normal, with the intention of finishing the league season by the scheduled date. Please refer to your league secretary for further guidance.” |
Will games be held 6th May? Coronation Day, or just 7th May?
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: Glasshouse
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 19:54
kempstonblue wrote:
PiffPaff wrote:
Nope as above, draw on Wednesday, fixtures out then I would think especially if you need to book a Bus or organise a sponsor which clearly RFU Competitions think you can do in five minutes.
I'm told there is some "Travel Funding" available for long distance trips, not sure what the criteria is and how much the magic RFU money tree will provide.
Think one or two in Regional South East maybe sweating or indeed looking forward to being drawn away at Camborne and vice versa. Likewise some clubs in South Cheshire might be less than please with a North East trip ..... and vice versa in the Counties draw. Wonder if they will "manage" the draw and try to keep distances short in the early rounds.
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As Regional 1 South East ends this Saturday, with a couple of catch ups, 18tn March, then Wednesday (15th?) is after most of the league ends.
Madness sees one match scheduled in Midlands 1, 1st April.
Could anyone make up such a mess?
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Yep, that'll be our (Kenilworth's) rearranged fixture at home to Lichfield. Which could still affect vital league positions.
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Posted By: Glasshouse
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2023 at 19:55
kempstonblue wrote:
[QUOTE=PiffPaff]Nope as above, draw on Wednesday, fixtures out then I would think especially if you need to book a Bus or organise a sponsor which clearly RFU Competitions think you can do in five minutes.
I'm told there is some "Travel Funding" available for long distance trips, not sure what the criteria is and how much the magic RFU money tree will provide.
Think one or two in Regional South East maybe sweating or indeed looking forward to being drawn away at Camborne and vice versa. Likewise some clubs in South Cheshire might be less than please with a North East trip ..... and vice versa in the Counties draw. Wonder if they will "manage" the draw and try to keep distances short in the early rounds.
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Posted By: WESTCOMBE RANGER
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 08:09
This should have been a Pizza Cake but is turning into an Eton Mess.
------------- The older I get, the better I was.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 11:39
Just been told the prestigious venue is......
Ealing.... and I'm not kidding.
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 13:23
Given that there are four competitions (Championship, Plate, Shield & Bowl) at L5, and three each at L6-9, I make that 16 finals to take place. In which case there will have to be a number of 'prestigious' venues, hopefully spread around the country.
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 14:00
Posted By: cobbler
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 21:01
kempstonblue wrote:
PiffPaff wrote:
Nope as above, draw on Wednesday, fixtures out then I would think especially if you need to book a Bus or organise a sponsor which clearly RFU Competitions think you can do in five minutes.
I'm told there is some "Travel Funding" available for long distance trips, not sure what the criteria is and how much the magic RFU money tree will provide.
Think one or two in Regional South East maybe sweating or indeed looking forward to being drawn away at Camborne and vice versa. Likewise some clubs in South Cheshire might be less than please with a North East trip ..... and vice versa in the Counties draw. Wonder if they will "manage" the draw and try to keep distances short in the early rounds.
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As Regional 1 South East ends this Saturday, with a couple of catch ups, 18tn March, then Wednesday (15th?) is after most of the league ends.
Madness sees one match scheduled in Midlands 1, 1st April.
Could anyone make up such a mess?
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And with further postponements likely this weekend there will be other games on 1st April and maybe Kenilworth having a game the following week as well!
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 22:00
PiffPaff wrote:
Just been told the prestigious venue is......
Ealing.... and I'm not kidding. |
You must be joking.......
The Stoop, Welford Road, even the Rec people would love to have taken. But you cannot ever call Trailfinders Sports Ground "prestigious" (and that's not a slight against Ealing)
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2023 at 09:43
It's the irony of the governing body calling it 'prestigious' while Premier Rugby basically claim It's not fit for purpose.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2023 at 11:28
It gets worse.....
All the County Championships Finals (Div.2, Div. 3 and U20) apart from the Bill Beaumont Mens Div.1 Final & the Gill Burns Womens Div. 1 finals will be played at the Stadio Della Ealing in June!
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2023 at 17:05
https://www.rfulondon.com/node/82%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.rfulondon.com/node/82
The draw is out
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2023 at 17:54
Quite a few pull outs i've noticed. Even the teams at the bottom in the bowl have gone straight to knockout!
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Posted By: carlos fandango
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2023 at 21:36
The link seems broken, or is that the joke?
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2023 at 22:56
carlos fandango wrote:
The link seems broken, or is that the joke? |
https://www.rfulondon.com/forms/PJR1.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.rfulondon.com/forms/PJR1.pdf
Try that.
You have Brighton (H) Civil Service (A) Weston-Super-Mare (H)
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Posted By: carlos fandango
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 07:03
Cheers. WSM would have been a good road trip. Shame we're home. Though I'm sure our treasurer will disagree.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 07:36
Some chunky journeys there - Dudley KW to Alnwick stands out = not much change out of 500 miles!
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 09:05
What were people expecting, England to suddenly concertina closer together for spring? It is no wonder some of the more remote clubs pulled out. I think it is the top seven from Regional 1 South West.
Weston to Brighton is not an easy journey - only 200 miles, but it will take over 4 hours each way. And there are several others that will take over three hours and involve the M25 past Heathrow on a Saturday, well known for its flowing traffic.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 09:50
This draw only includes the top 10 Clubs in Regional 1 North West. Is there a further link with more fixtures ?
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Posted By: cobbler
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 11:12
islander wrote:
Some chunky journeys there - Dudley KW to Alnwick stands out = not much change out of 500 miles! |
Yes it was bad enough for the 2 South Notts clubs (Paviors and West Bridgford) to have to travel there in the league, DK is a fair bit further (but they will almost certainly be travelling to Redruth next season so good practice!).
I have heard Bournemouth have pulled out not fancying the short hop to Burton.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 11:24
We have 56 of the 72 teams,
I assume that the other 16 have chosen not to enter, due mainly to the distances involved.
Originally, 62 were said to have entered, so another six have pulled out.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 11:31
Apparently the other Draws are now being made on Monday
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 13:26
Camquin wrote:
We have 56 of the 72 teams,
I assume that the other 16 have chosen not to enter, due mainly to the distances involved.
Originally, 62 were said to have entered, so another six have pulled out.
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What I see most teams are playing teams from a neighbouring region. Yes some travel, but clubs have a choice, which I guess is a part of player welfare?
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 13:35
kempstonblue wrote:
Camquin wrote:
We have 56 of the 72 teams,
I assume that the other 16 have chosen not to enter, due mainly to the distances involved.
Originally, 62 were said to have entered, so another six have pulled out.
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What I see most teams are playing teams from a neighbouring region. Yes some travel, but clubs have a choice, which I guess is a part of player welfare? |
Well regionalisation seems sensible but why don’t the RFU set out the parameters for how the draws are being made? How many clubs have been put off entering because they fear an away draw(s) which would involve a long round trip and a big bill from the coach company even with a subsidy.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 13:41
They split the draw North and South, so Alnwick was not going to be drawn against Camborne.
But the downside of "you are going to play different opponents" is "you are going to trek halfway across the country" or at least outside the region your league covers.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 13:53
Camquin wrote:
They split the draw North and South, so Alnwick was not going to be drawn against Camborne.
But the downside of "you are going to play different opponents" is "you are going to trek halfway across the country" or at least outside the region your league covers.
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Did they make that information available to the clubs and supporters? I can’t find any mention other than there are pools st the higher level and knock-out games ar level 7 and below
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 14:17
Neasham wrote:
Camquin wrote:
They split the draw North and South, so Alnwick was not going to be drawn against Camborne.
But the downside of "you are going to play different opponents" is "you are going to trek halfway across the country" or at least outside the region your league covers.
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Did they make that information available to the clubs and supporters? I can’t find any mention other than there are pools st the higher level and knock-out games ar level 7 and below |
Yes they did. It was in that draft that they put out at the start of the season. https://rise.articulate.com/share/26CsHbwNnui6nhtbatR0v03gYNbPO02M#/lessons/S5JBqzATm-TcYOCGH-KSzdB0Oanu236b" rel="nofollow - https://rise.articulate.com/share/26CsHbwNnui6nhtbatR0v03gYNbPO02M#/lessons/S5JBqzATm-TcYOCGH-KSzdB0Oanu236b
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 14:17
Neasham wrote:
Did they make that information available to the clubs and supporters? I can’t find any mention other than there are pools st the higher level and knock-out games ar level 7 and below
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I don't think it was explicitly spelt out, but if you looked at the suggested/ indicative draw in the original document it was clear that this was the plan.
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 14:46
Much appreciated - as you say not that clear but helpful.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 15:57
I think there may have been and earlier draft that made the explicit. But I could be remembering earlier proposals from the AGR.
As ever, communication by the RFU was its usual standard.
I have not seen - but I am not a treasurer at a club involved - any documentation on travel support, or prize money.
But
communication does not hide the fact that in five weeks of competition,
you are only guaranteed one home match, and - should you reach the final -
could be away for the other four weeks.
Or you could be at home three of
the five weeks.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: BruceElliott
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 16:47
Camquin wrote:
As ever, communication by the RFU was its usual standard.
I have not seen - but I am not a treasurer at a club involved - any documentation on travel support, or prize money. |
Don't know if it's current, but from the RFU website - travel support - https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john 's-community-cup
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Posted By: BruceElliott
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 16:47
Looks like you'll have to cut and paste it because of the apostrophe!
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 17:17
Well some support so good for Papa John. My interest in this subject started when I was looking for Billingham’s draw. Despite them walking their Regional One league it looks like they haven’t entered, so presumably financial support not enough for them.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 17:26
So Dudley will get £796 for their trip to Alnwick, including the accommodation supplement.
That would just about pay for ten rooms in the Premier Inn in Alnwick on the Friday night, assuming the lads are prepared to double up. But not include breakfast or dinner.
And, of course, there is the coach on top of that.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: secondrow
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2023 at 22:35
I see that Weston Super Mare, have dropped out, they obviously did not fancy travelling to Brighton and Hertford, and who can blame them
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 05:52
Hmmmmmm.... how to create chaos - the draws for all the PJCs
The lower end of the competition has something like 70-odd 1st Round Byes which means if your Leagues finished last weekend or this weekend you don't play your first cup game until April 15th.
Oh and the finals venues are StoneX for the South (not Ealing) and Darlington MP in the North
https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john 's-community-cup
You have to cut and paste the link the ' is a link killer
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 08:43
Papa Johns brand name doesn’t have an apostrophe. The RFU should show more diligence towards its sponsors.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 10:01
Ironically, they get it right in the text.
The apostrophe is only in the URL.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 12:43
Neasham wrote:
Papa Johns brand name doesn’t have an apostrophe. The RFU should show more diligence towards its sponsors. |
RFU and due diligence? Brilliant ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif)
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Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 21:12
APOSTROPHES ' ' !! Blimey Gent's you really do need to get out a bit more, but if you can't I've added some apostrophes in this sentence for you to find 😂
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 21:46
HAVANT TONY wrote:
APOSTROPHES ' ' !!Blimey Gent's you really do need to get out a bit more, but if you can't I've added some apostrophes in this sentence for you to find 😂 |
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Posted By: WESTCOMBE RANGER
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 21:50
Neasham wrote:
Papa Johns brand name doesn’t have an apostrophe. The RFU should show more diligence towards its sponsors. |
Perhaps it should have read Papa Johns' as it's their Trophy, or maybe even Papa Johns's (doubtful) ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif)
------------- The older I get, the better I was.
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2023 at 22:04
Or even The Papa Johns Community Cup
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Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 06:42
Papa Johns Community Walkover?
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Posted By: Bunkermentality
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 11:41
Possibly correct. But there's no doubt that it is "Papa Johns' brand name".
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2023 at 12:47
Bunkermentality wrote:
Possibly correct. But there's no doubt that it is "Papa Johns' brand name". |
Can’t argue with that.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 17:32
Anyone tried their club's pizza code?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2023 at 18:51
Apparently Lincoln, Wthycombe and Aireborough have pulled out, giving Beverley, St Ives (SW), and Old Bedians Away Walkovers - to add to the byes.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 08:38
Camquin wrote:
Apparently Lincoln, Wthycombe and Aireborough have pulled out, giving Beverley, St Ives (SW), and Old Bedians Away Walkovers - to add to the byes.
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Let me guess, they signed up knowing they might have to do long trips. They don't like the distances for the oppo so now they are pulling out?
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 08:43
Think its the tip of the iceberg, several more Walkovers this week expected.
AWO? So all three Home Clubs cried off?
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 09:14
That was what surprised me.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: carlos fandango
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 11:52
There seems to be lots of negativity about this competition. Papa John's must be wondering why they bothered and what an ungrateful bunch rugby clubs are.
From the little I know of the reasons for the pull-outs, I find the attitude of many clubs to be, frankly, quite appalling. Too far to travel? Horsepawpaw. We can't win against them? Cowardly horsepawpaw.
Anyone old enough to remember Thurrock beating Harlequins in the old JPS cup (I think it was)? If you don't even turn up you should be ashamed.
Rant over- feel better for that. ![Tongue Tongue](smileys/smiley17.gif)
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Posted By: WESTCOMBE RANGER
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 12:59
Certainly do remember that, alongwith Old Reigations dumping Saracens out in 1987
------------- The older I get, the better I was.
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 13:05
All these clubs dropping out.
I suppose it makes me understand why we don’t have a knockout cups like Leagues Challenge Cup, or Footballs Cup, Trophy and Vase.
Let’s face it the early rounds are regional affairs. We don’t even have a national final (do we?)
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 13:18
I am another who fails to understand the withdrawing clubs attitudes. They didn't have to enter but once they did - and knowing in advance that travelling may be necessary - they should have honoured the tie. I feel sorry for the RFU who have managed to get a new sponsor into the game and for the sponsors themselves who would be bringing revenue to the clubs.
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 13:58
Agree - it's bordering on disrepute. Arguably clubs should have to lodge some form of deposit to enter, which is refunded on completion of their first game...
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 16:28
carlos fandango wrote:
There seems to be lots of negativity about this competition. Papa John's must be wondering why they bothered and what an ungrateful bunch rugby clubs are.
From the little I know of the reasons for the pull-outs, I find the attitude of many clubs to be, frankly, quite appalling. Too far to travel? Horsepawpaw. We can't win against them? Cowardly horsepawpaw.
Anyone old enough to remember Thurrock beating Harlequins in the old JPS cup (I think it was)? If you don't even turn up you should be ashamed.
Rant over- feel better for that. ![Tongue Tongue](smileys/smiley17.gif) |
I'm not quite as old as you but I share that sentiment. You entered that competition, you knew you might have to do a long away trip (the RFU didn't hide it, they made it very clear it would have at least 1 from SE/SC/SW and North equivalent), then honour your commitments and get a bit of money from the home game you have. If don't fancy it based on distance/oppo league position/no. of home games etc, then don't enter in the first place! What did these clubs think they were signing up for?
The problem is that the RFU can't just do what they do in the leagues and dock points nor can they just ban them from entering next year lest it gets turned into more of a farce. Maybe next year, if its a super long distance then offer a little bit for some hotels and let them make it more of a tour than a long haul away game. Plus have all finals at Twickers like the Intermediate Cup/Senior Vase/Junior Vase at Level 6 were.
But I frankly ask those clubs, what are you here for? To play and promote the game plus get a bit of extra cash or just kowtow to a new boys club who say "I don't like it, too far, I want to watch Ant and Dec with the bird in the evening"?
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 17:42
Another one
Keighley HWO v Liverpool St Helens
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 17:43
I disagree with those that slate the naysayers. The RFU based their introducing of a cup competition on basis of feedback they say they had from players. On this very site a few seasons back I highlighted how what players say about cups and what they actually do are disconnected. I made the point in person to Bill Sweeney last season too suggesting that the investment would have been better directed to the leagues and extending the season so that we had more break weeks. Instead, we have had some Level 6 clubs playing 9 straight games and players are knackered - it is no surprise some clubs have withdrawn and the RFU were warned this would happen. For our part, we entered but could not be sure that players would make themselves available as they only really look a week or two ahead at the amateur level (L6 in our case). We are fronting up but I have every sympathy with those that don't as they could not possibly predict how their player base would behave when they entered. Now at least we know and it will be interesting to see how long this experiment lasts as the evidence from the previous national Cup competitions at all levels was not compelling....
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Posted By: Fly Half
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 08:01
Hartlepool Rovers have conceeded to Leodiensians.
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Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 08:59
I can't find anything about prize money on RFU site, apart from contribution to travelling and accommodation.
------------- Cauliflower ear.
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 09:45
kingsheathlad wrote:
I can't find anything about prize money on RFU site, apart from contribution to travelling and accommodation. |
Don’t think there has ever been a mention of prize money - don’t think anybody expects any. No doubt Papa Johns will have provided a sum of money for community sponsorship and well done to them for doing so. The RFU will have estimated how much got travel etc would cost but presumably the reduction in entries, and the number of walkovers growing this week, they may end up “quids in.” At least for this season I’d like to be a fly in the wall when they meet in the summer to discuss the Community Cup.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 09:55
I understand Blackburn have pulled of the Regional 1 Comp
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 12:32
DICKON wrote:
I disagree with those that slate the naysayers. The RFU based their introducing of a cup competition on basis of feedback they say they had from players. On this very site a few seasons back I highlighted how what players say about cups and what they actually do are disconnected. I made the point in person to Bill Sweeney last season too suggesting that the investment would have been better directed to the leagues and extending the season so that we had more break weeks. Instead, we have had some Level 6 clubs playing 9 straight games and players are knackered - it is no surprise some clubs have withdrawn and the RFU were warned this would happen. For our part, we entered but could not be sure that players would make themselves available as they only really look a week or two ahead at the amateur level (L6 in our case). We are fronting up but I have every sympathy with those that don't as they could not possibly predict how their player base would behave when they entered. Now at least we know and it will be interesting to see how long this experiment lasts as the evidence from the previous national Cup competitions at all levels was not compelling....
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But the club's didn't have to enter. They should have discussed player availability but Once they decided they should participate to the end.
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 12:44
The challenge is that players don't look that far ahead Richard - I truly wish they did but most of our lads only commit 1 week ahead so that would have been hopeless for the Cup entry. We finished the league season well and felt that we might get additional availability as a result so we entered - this has proved to be a good decision for the 1st Round but if we win it the 2nd Round is on the 15th when we also have a 2s Cup Final, which adds extra pressure to the availability conundrum.
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Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 14:10
With the county championship rounds in May, will this have an impact on player availabity for later rounds of trophy.
------------- Cauliflower ear.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 14:51
So far 33 Walkovers - so either the players who were surveyed lied or clubs just don't think it was worth the hassle.
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 15:08
I don't think players lied PiffPaff, I think some didn't realise how the structured season would impact their bodies by the seasons end and others have ended up with 1st Round draws that mean they will be away most of the day. Imho clubs will have entered with the best intentions to compete but when they have chased up players for their availability this week, it simply hasn't been there.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 15:27
D, maybe "lied" was the wrong wording, naive?. Not many Clubs thought the "Cup Window" was a good idea yet the RFU still went ahead full-steam. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of games cried off tops 100 by the time the 15th April comes round. A return to cup dates in the season would be a much better spread with say the Semis and Final at the end of April. Clubs who cry-off in the early rounds at least still have league rugby to contend with, basically a lot of clubs at Level 5 down effectively ended their rugby season in March. Some clubs still the PJ Cup will have not played for 3 or 4 weeks by the time the 2nd Round comes around that can't be good for players.
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 17:29
I think the lack of interest started with the RFU - the Cups were announced with too many questions not answered or announced. Would the draws be seeded (I.e.top 2 in league get home draw), would the early rounds be regional, where would the finals be played, how much financial support would there be for travel (turns out a third of the cost of a coach from what I can see), why is level 7 and below knockout (one away game costing you hundreds for a coach and you lose and that’s it - or worse still two away draws and you lose the second one)?? To be fair the weather hasn’t helped, so clubs drawn away at lower levels had only ten days to organise travel and alert players plus the finals are now on Coronation weekend - nightmare awaits for finalists trying to arrange travel etc. Finally, it’s not players who decide these things it’s coaches and committees and I agree that if you entered the competition you should get on with it then shout loudly about how it should be organised next season -if held.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 18:21
Neasham, the RFU FCS specified it was players who wanted an end of season cup comp.
BTW walkovers are now at 41 including Dudley Kingswinford who won Midlands 1
------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
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Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 18:47
Agreed Piffpaff on both your last 2 posts.
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 18:52
PiffPaff wrote:
Neasham, the RFU FCS specified it was players who wanted an end of season cup comp.
BTW walkovers are now at 41 including Dudley Kingswinford who won Midlands 1 |
Really? How do we know? Any players out there able to confirm they advocated this? RFU determined to cut size of leagues simple as that. Fait accompli. BTW where can I find where these cry-offs are listed. Is it on the England rugby website ?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 19:39
https://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/search-results?competition=2106&season=2022-2023#results" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/search-results?competition=2106&season=2022-2023#results
The RFU used player quotes to justify reorganising the league.
The aim was to reduce travel, but a third of clubs ended up being promoted to fill spaces, so probably ended up with longer travel.
There were quotes supporting a cup, but not a cup held at the end of the season - including over Easter.
Fitting the shorter league season into fewer weeks meant fewer weeks off during the season, not more. The weather has not helped - but there was always going to be bad weather in at least some seasons.
Had the cup been interleaved, the cup weeks could be used by teams who have been knocked out as catch up weeks, or rest weeks.
Having cups organised as they are, has meant long journeys at the end of a season. Support was promised, but was never going to pay the full amount. And the extra matches and travel outweigh the reduction in leagues.
And I wrote to the RFU making those points at the time, and did not even get an acknowledgement.
Poor communication, both by the RFU, and possibly by clubs, has led to many players assuming the season ended at the end of the league.
So all in all a Right Foul Up.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 20:50
Thanks for the link. Sad state of affairs.
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Posted By: Karlos F
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 20:54
CS Stags vs. Brighton on 22 April, now shows it as a home game for Brighton as W-S-M have dropped out of the pool
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2023 at 21:35
Neasham wrote:
kingsheathlad wrote:
I can't find anything about prize money on RFU site, apart from contribution to travelling and accommodation. |
Don’t think there has ever been a mention of prize money - don’t think anybody expects any. No doubt Papa Johns will have provided a sum of money for community sponsorship and well done to them for doing so. The RFU will have estimated how much got travel etc would cost but presumably the reduction in entries, and the number of walkovers growing this week, they may end up “quids in.” At least for this season I’d like to be a fly in the wall when they meet in the summer to discuss the Community Cup.
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There was none for the Intermediate Cup back in the day. But I do have to concur that communication was a big failure here.
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