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Who makes up the numbers?

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Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=19949
Printed Date: 05 Oct 2024 at 15:34
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Topic: Who makes up the numbers?
Posted By: Runitback
Subject: Who makes up the numbers?
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 16:49
If Jersey are to fall into liquidation The Championship clubs cannot afford to have another blank weekend, CP will have lost lots of money this weekend,  during the league season, so who should fill that space?

1. Wasps - they have a ground and could probably assemble a competitive squad quite easily and the RFU are desperate to have them back?

2. Richmond - they were relegated last year . ..  is their current squad strong enough? Would they want to return to the Championship?

3. Rams - Runners up for the last few years and  looking like the strongest squad in Nat 1?

4. Or a hybrid team of some sorts . . England U20's

Surely only 1 or 4 are potentially workable as then Nat1 is compromised.

Or does a White Knight appear for Jersey?

Or as far left field as you can go . . . do DMP get moved up, sign the entire Jersey squad, attract a huge  sponsor as their ground (25,000) would be meet Prem criteria?



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Run with it



Replies:
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 17:02
If anything, a hybrid side would be best so that it can be dismantled when Prem 1 and Prem 2 is implemented (just need to find a ground). Fairest outcome is Rams or Richmond. As dithering is RFUs usual mantra then nothing. 



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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 17:08
As Caldy and Cambridge know only too well, probably nobody.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Greg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 17:15
What a fanciful notion.


Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 17:54
Wishful thinking I think.

Get booking friendlies to fill those gaps.


Posted By: Pirate Pig
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 17:59
As there is no premiership A league why can't the nearest club send down their A side for a match.


Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 19:51
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

If anything, a hybrid side would be best so that it can be dismantled when Prem 1 and Prem 2 is implemented (just need to find a ground). Fairest outcome is Rams or Richmond. As dithering is RFUs usual mantra then nothing. 


No club in their right mind would want to join this circus.






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Sponges grow in the ocean. That just amazes me. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn't happen.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 19:55
Make a team from all of the Academies.you could select a few from each club left in Premiership. Is that possible ?

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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Se7en
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 20:05
What do Caldy and Cambridge know only too well?

Good idea blending the various academy players, perhaps with a core of England U20s, tough fixtures around the country week in and week out, resulting in the perfect opportunity to bond as a squad. 

Who knows, in four years many of them could find themselves jetting off to RWC 2027 in Oz. It would take some logistical work and funding from the RFU to get off the ground, but where there's a will there's a way.


Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 21:36
Is everyone posting on this thread on something? A manufactured “club” to make up the numbers? Is it just me, or has the essence of the game somehow disappeared into the ether?


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 22:40
We were both in National One when Old Elthamians pulled out.
And so we were left with a short season.
I would start talking to universities.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Bluesman11
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2023 at 23:57
All the clubs that hadn’t had their London Welsh home fixture lost out that year too, it will be the same this year. Bedford managed to organise a friendly against Saints last time as it fortunately happened to fall on a free weekend for them. 

Bedford actually do this bizarre thing where we set a playing budget based on expected revenue and expenses so it’s particularly frustrating now with revenue reduced due to another other club’s financial mismanagement. This cancellation means we’ll have nearly 2 months without a home fixture later in the season, which can’t be great for cash flow. I’m sure the RFU will reimburse everyone though…


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Championship Prediction League Winner 11/12


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 08:51
London Welsh died in 16/17, and everyone in the Championship except Scottish lost a game.
On the bright side, Cambridge were not relegated that season due to London Welsh's demise.

Old Elthamians demise was 21/22, having managed to complete the covid restricted 19/20 season with second string players, and then there was no season in 20/21.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Se7en
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 12:26
OE 1st XV officially folded and withdrew from Nat 1 in the first week of August 2021, a month before the scheduled start of the 21/22' season.

Not dissimilar to Jersey following suit approximately a month before the start of this year's Championship season (albeit having played some Prem Cup fixtures).

To compare the effects of OE withdrawal from Nat 1 and the knock on affect to Cambridge and Caldy at that time, to that of Jersey's demise and what that means for Championship clubs is a tad irrelative. Not least due to the issues surrounding logistics and overall finances - sponsorship commitments, match day takings, ticket revenue etc - relating to the number of fully professional clubs at Level 2, which is markedly different to Level 3 in that respect.


Posted By: *Stalwart
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 12:36
Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

All the clubs that hadn’t had their London Welsh home fixture lost out that year too, it will be the same this year. Bedford managed to organise a friendly against Saints last time as it fortunately happened to fall on a free weekend for them. 

Bedford actually do this bizarre thing where we set a playing budget based on expected revenue and expenses so it’s particularly frustrating now with revenue reduced due to another other club’s financial mismanagement. This cancellation means we’ll have nearly 2 months without a home fixture later in the season, which can’t be great for cash flow. I’m sure the RFU will reimburse everyone though…

Very good point - no doubt most clubs would have set their budgets according to expected revenue (mostly from home games). As you say, the RFU will step in to make up the short fall. Not!


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*Stalwart


Posted By: Se7en
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 12:42
Out of interest, do any Championship clubs have insurance in place for an outcome such as this that will lead to loss of revenue through no fault of their own? Perhaps this will become a necessity if the professional rugby landscape remains so uncertain and especially so if Prem 1 and Prem 2 ever comes to fruition.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 12:56
I assume travel insurance may repay the cost of not going to jersey.
Given the extra cost of going to Jersey, if you can get that money back, it softens the blow considerably.

But, whether in National 1 or the Championship, it is a loss of £15k to £25k of match day revenue
Some clubs have backers who will turn round and fill that, others don't - and the national 1 sides are manly in the latter camp.

I suspect the cost of insuring against that would be too high for most clubs to take on.



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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 13:48
Still here guys. We’ve not quite gone just yet!!

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Tackle Low!!!!!


Posted By: JohnLowe
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 13:49
Are we talking about match day income/revenue or profit which could be quite different but obviously related


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 14:02
Originally posted by Se7en Se7en wrote:


To compare the effects of OE withdrawal from Nat 1 and the knock on affect to Cambridge and Caldy at that time, to that of Jersey's demise and what that means for Championship clubs is a tad irrelative. Not least due to the issues surrounding logistics and overall finances - sponsorship commitments, match day takings, ticket revenue etc - relating to the number of fully professional clubs at Level 2, which is markedly different to Level 3 in that respect.

Out of interest, would you have the same take on level 4 if Guernsey went under (or the Manx clubs lower down)*? 

Meanwhile, the idea that National 1, running a league from Darlington to Plymouth with basically no central funding at all were unaffected because OE weren't Jersey is if nothing else bleakly amusing. Losing a home game where the RFU aren't handing over a cheque to prop up your club's business model every season is just difficult in a different way, I would suggest...


*last time I checked it was a straight RFU grant of £2k to the travelling club to go to Guernsey or the Isle of Man. So while I'm sure that's welcome the logistics and overall finances etc outlined above sit on the shoulders of amateur clubs with no central funding.
 




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keep the faith


Posted By: Se7en
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 15:15
Yes I would. Whilst any club at any level going under will have ramifications for others in that league, i would suggest that this will be amplified depending on the level that club was playing at - ie the losses Prem clubs absorbed when Warriors, Wasps and Irish went under, will dwarf those that Cambridge, Caldy...or to answer your question, those in Nat 2E would suffer in the unfortunate event that Guernsey folded one day. Yes I'd be the first to say that it is of course all relative depending on the league a particular club is playing in. 

To clarify, no one is suggesting that clubs are unaffected by losing a fixture during the season, the point is that the effects of this will differ significantly depending on what level that club is playing at.


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 16:38
I think
The RFU should enter a team, pay for it and manage it and see how much it costs them!!!!!!


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Run with it


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 16:56
Jersey have suffered an insolvency event so they are out for this season and theoretically down to Level 10 assuming they can resolve their administration. Best solution is to back Jersey Amateurs

Contrary to my previous post, any manufactured team would mean that there would be no relegation.....or would the 10/10 plan cause chaos in promotion and relegation?


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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 19:34
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

London Welsh died in 16/17, and everyone in the Championship except Scottish lost a game.
On the bright side, Cambridge were not relegated that season due to London Welsh's demise.

Old Elthamians demise was 21/22, having managed to complete the covid restricted 19/20 season with second string players, and then there was no season in 20/21.

Technically we also had Scottish deciding not to play during Covid.


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2023 at 19:39
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I assume travel insurance may repay the cost of not going to jersey.
Given the extra cost of going to Jersey, if you can get that money back, it softens the blow considerably.

But, whether in National 1 or the Championship, it is a loss of £15k to £25k of match day revenue
Some clubs have backers who will turn round and fill that, others don't - and the national 1 sides are manly in the latter camp.

I suspect the cost of insuring against that would be too high for most clubs to take on.


Although season tickets are still sold, at Blues you’re looking at more like £60k lost revenue from all the hospitality and ticket sales. I imagine they will probably get Cambridge Uni in or somehow fill the void. Even if it is a Saints A team which would attract a lot of Saints supporters too.


Posted By: Woody
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 11:03
Bill Sweeney waffling on about England winning six nations and world cups today. The man is deranged and deluded. Like he is sitting in a bunker moving long dead troops around on an ever shrinking map… meanwhile the game he is custodian of is imploding. What even is Premiership 2? Does anyone know what it will look like? Jersey didn’t and that’s why they couldn’t get investment right? He says the RFU will talk to the Govt in Jersey to support Reds. I thought the govt in jersey just voted not to support the reds?!? What is going on? Why has there not been a vote of no confidence in him?

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Forever Green.


Posted By: Geoff DC
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 12:06
Originally posted by Woody Woody wrote:

Bill Sweeney waffling on about England winning six nations and world cups today. The man is deranged and deluded. Why has there not been a vote of no confidence in him?

There is a Petition on Change.org - Petition For Bill Sweeney to resign as RFU CEO

http://www.change.org/p/bill-sweeney-to-resign-as-rfu-ceo" rel="nofollow - https://www.change.org/p/bill-sweeney-to-resign-as-rfu-ceo




Posted By: Woody
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 14:16
Signed and shared.

Since my post Jersey have announced liquidation which is tragic.

Why then, was Mr Sweeney only yesterday saying the RFU was going to talk to the Govt next? The ship had sailed.
Why did the RFU not know about the financial situation at Jersey if they had recently had talks with them about European rugby? Is there no check to be passed for that like there is for the Perm?
Claiming ignorance and appearing to help after the horse has bolted is not big or clever.
We see you Bill. Do the decent thing...


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Forever Green.


Posted By: Woody
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2023 at 14:34
Signed and shared.

Since my post Jersey have announced liquidation which is tragic.

Why then, was Mr Sweeney only yesterday saying the RFU was going to talk to the Govt next? The ship had sailed.
Why did the RFU not know about the financial situation at Jersey if they had recently had talks with them about European rugby? Is there no check to be passed for that like there is for the Perm?
Claiming ignorance and appearing to help after the horse has bolted is not big or clever.
We see you Bill. Do the decent thing...


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Forever Green.



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