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Your changes to the laws

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Topic: Your changes to the laws
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Subject: Your changes to the laws
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 16:23
OK let's take a break from the Coronavirus.

What one law change would you make to the game to make it better? 


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Replies:
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 16:38
Stop the clock when scrums have to be reset! 


Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 16:40
An overall weight limit on the match day squad.

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TJOS


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 16:51
Minimum or maximum?? 😂😂


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 16:57
Return to permitting a mark anywhere on the pitch and reintroduce the kick at goal following a mark.
Might cut down on the pointless kicks.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Full Bodied Red
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 16:57
Reduce substitutes and allow them to be used only for injuries. I’m aware this won’t be popular.


Posted By: Deva Delinquent
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 17:43
Originally posted by Full Bodied Red Full Bodied Red wrote:

Reduce substitutes and allow them to be used only for injuries. I’m aware this won’t be popular.

I think this would reduce injuries, but implementing this will mean a lot of teams - most teams in fact - will have to amend their game plans. 

I'm for it, though, if it reduces injuries. 


Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 17:49
Cancel relegation


Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 18:04
All referees at all levels to strictly enforce the laws 

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If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire?


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 18:25
Do something to change the rolling maul. Zzzz_zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Cauliflower ear.


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 18:58
Full bodied Red I totally agree with you and I am seeing more and more pundits also espousing this point.

It would stop the existence of 20 stone props, reduce injuries and increase the number of players actually playing.

And open the game up . .  gets my backing 100%


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Run with it


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 21:04
Bring back the old being able to catch the ball while standing on the line and get the lineout back where it was kicked from.

That law rewarded those who knew the laws.


Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 21:43
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Return to permitting a mark anywhere on the pitch and reintroduce the kick at goal following a mark.
Might cut down on the pointless kicks.
You're aware how rarely a goal was ever kicked from the mark?.  The defending team was allowed to advance up to the point of the mark, meaning that the kick would have to be taken from further away.  And the mark would hardly ever be close to goal anyway.

Funnily enough, this provision still exists in the NFL in the form of the "Fair catch kick" whereby a fair catch from a punt or restart after a score can be followed by an attempt at goal. It doesn't often happen because most fair catches will happen within the receiving team's territory, meaning that the kick will be a minimum of 60 yards. Also, there will usually be a better play available unless time is about to run out.  So almost all attempts occur at the end of a half where the team attempting the kick is no more than 3 points adrift, as that is what a successful kick earns, same as a field goal.  

It's such a rare play that there is usually intense consultation between the coaching teams and the officials on the field as to what formations are possible before the kick is attempted.  Incidentally, the kicker is not allowed a kicking tee, so a holder must be used, but as there is no scrimmage,and no snap, a full run-up to the kick is possible, meaning that greater distance is possible than for a conventional field goal.  Accuracy, however, remains an issue at long distance.  

To put this in perspective, the last successful attempt was in 1976, by Ray Wersching, then playing for the San Diego Chargers vs the Buffalo Bills.  This was from a mere 45 yards, so something clearly went wrong from the Bills' PoV.  There have been 9 subsequent attempts, the most recent in October 2019 in London, when Joey Slye of the Carolina Panthers missed one from 60 yards at the end of the second quarter vs the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.


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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 07:24
Never understood why if you knock a ball on and one of your team mates in front of you instinctively picks the ball up/plays it it is a full penalty against your team? Scrum or at worse a free kick surely?


Posted By: grooveavenue13
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 07:57
Mine, for now, is the scrum...boring I know. This aspect of the game is vitally important to retain. It is unfair however that the ball into the scrum is never straight. Stop me there abd tell me it doesn't have to be, but I think it should. The infringements to create a scrum are minor and the scrum takes place as a small reward for the "victims" to have the advantage of the put in brining into play timing, anticipation and sometimes the "culprits" turning the ball over. I didn't have to tell you any of this, because you all know! I can see the time, RFU forbid, uncontested scrums may be introduced in which case we all also know the errr.... shape, weight and roll of the scrum will disappear. If the scrum is managed well by he of whistle it's a great part of our unique game. BUT the ball has to be fed to the centre. Sorry for the boring input before opening time - crickey- of course there's no opening time   - I mean before Green Goddess Time!!

My other gripe is the increasing questioning of refs decisions, in my opinion quite often employed to delay a restart. Stop or lose 10 IMMEDIATELY, not after the fifth occasion !!

So if anybody wants to revisit much revisited topics please do so. If not things may get boring after 9am on this 23rd day of March 2020. All keep well see you in September...


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 09:02
Can't decide on 1 so

1) put an end to caterpillars at rucks - takes too long to set up

2) enforce the law that scrum halves don't feed the scrum

3) time-off from time a scrum is re-set until ball is back in play

4) no kicks at goal outside the 40 yard line

5) change maul rules so that ball must be at front, otherwise it's obstruction

6) increase points for a try to 6, possibly reduce conversion to 1 so there is an incentive to play open rugby

7) stop the RFU interfering in set-up of levels 4 and above

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RAID ON


Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 10:38
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Can't decide on 1 so

1) put an end to caterpillars at rucks - takes too long to set up

2) enforce the law that scrum halves don't feed the scrum

3) time-off from time a scrum is re-set until ball is back in play

4) no kicks at goal outside the 40 yard line

5) change maul rules so that ball must be at front, otherwise it's obstruction

6) increase points for a try to 6, possibly reduce conversion to 1 so there is an incentive to play open rugby

7) stop the RFU interfering in set-up of levels 4 and above

1 - Agree
2 - Agree
3 - Strongly agree
4 - Disagree - why?
5 - OK, but how do you get the ball out of the maul if it can't be transferred to the rear?
6 - No.  Five points is fine for a try, and conversions are often tricky enough so as to warrant a two-point reward.  The PAT in American Football is always taken from in front of the posts so one point is justified there.
7 - Ha ha, that'll never stop, no matter how much we might like it.


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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 10:49
remove lifting from the line-out




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keep the faith


Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 11:18
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

remove lifting from the line-out


What is the rationale for this?

With lifting, line-outs have:

1). Become an athletic spectacle;
2). Remained competitive;
3). Become much easier to police;
4). Become a great source of varied first phase attacking ball.

What’s not to like?




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Speak softly, but carry a big stick.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 11:24
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

6) increase points for a try to 6, possibly reduce conversion to 1 so there is an incentive to play open rugby

The greater the difference between the value of a try and the value of a penalty, the greater the incentive to prevent the try at all costs, usually by foul rather than fair means.  I realise that you're mitigating this slightly by reducing the value of the conversion, but even at level 7 we have a 70% goalkicker so this isn't going to make that big a difference.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 12:06
Originally posted by oneagainstthehead oneagainstthehead wrote:

Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

remove lifting from the line-out


What is the rationale for this?

With lifting, line-outs have:

1). Become an athletic spectacle;
2). Remained competitive;
3). Become much easier to police;
4). Become a great source of varied first phase attacking ball.

What’s not to like?



Have they?  How many line outs are lost by the throwing in side?

The jiggery pokery of players running around from back to front and back again slows the line out down.

How often is won line out ball shipped directly to the backs, rather than gathered up the forwards?
 


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Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 12:28
1 )Enforce the being ONSIDE from the kick off / restart.
2) 30 seconds for a kick at goal, not the age some take for re positioning the tee, twitching, staring up yo heaven etc.


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Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 12:30
Allow the driving maul to be collapsed by the defending team. The vast majority of driving mauls end up as a heap of bodies on the floor whether deliberately or accidentally with no serious injuries incurred. If this was introduced we would be going back towards a fundamental of the game ie there must be a contest for possession as opposed to the 'legal' obstruction that mauls currently are. This would mean attacking teams would have to get better at mauling/shearing to avoid collapse or even give the ball to the backs more often-win/win!


Posted By: Blutarsky
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 13:20
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Allow the driving maul to be collapsed by the defending team. The vast majority of driving mauls end up as a heap of bodies on the floor whether deliberately or accidentally with no serious injuries incurred. If this was introduced we would be going back towards a fundamental of the game ie there must be a contest for possession as opposed to the 'legal' obstruction that mauls currently are. This would mean attacking teams would have to get better at mauling/shearing to avoid collapse or even give the ball to the backs more often-win/win!

See Bill Beaumont Cup 2007 when this was trialled - it was ugly. 

Devon won it by ignoring the rule and mauling anyway, just with a longer, thinner maul. Every attempted collapse took the head off and allowed an advance.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 14:19
Originally posted by Full Bodied Red Full Bodied Red wrote:

Reduce substitutes and allow them to be used only for injuries. I’m aware this won’t be popular.

Or easy to administer I'm afraid. How would you tell a genuine injury from a tactical one?

I would go with reducing the number of replacements though.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 14:47
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by Full Bodied Red Full Bodied Red wrote:

Reduce substitutes and allow them to be used only for injuries. I’m aware this won’t be popular.


Or easy to administer I'm afraid. How would you tell a genuine injury from a tactical one?

I would go with reducing the number of replacements though.


Advice from an independent doctor appointed as part of the match official long team.

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RAID ON


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 18:47
Have you thought through how many doctors you would require to enforce that rule in all leagues. 
1.I would suggest free kick at a scrum the team cannot ask for a reset but take the penalty. Taken quickly will speed up the game. 
2. Only penalties kicked from your own half can result in The team who took the penalty could throw in . 3. Penalties kicked to touch in opponents half result int he defenders throwing in. 
4. No charging into rucks and hitting stationery players.



Posted By: Dobber
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 20:59
The scrum reset tops my list. When there can be 5 or more minutes of an 80 minute game spent on organised falling over with nothing happening it's not exactly helping us to persuade others that the game's full of excitement. Clock needs to be stopped and a free kick awarded to one side if it gets to three resets without any improvement, regardless of players moaning about the condition of the pitch and their studs not holding. 


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 21:01
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

Have you thought through how many doctors you would require to enforce that rule in all leagues. 
1.I would suggest free kick at a scrum the team cannot ask for a reset but take the penalty. Taken quickly will speed up the game. 
2. Only penalties kicked from your own half can result in The team who took the penalty could throw in . 3. Penalties kicked to touch in opponents half result int he defenders throwing in. 
4. No charging into rucks and hitting stationery players.



Trouble with 2 and 3 is the defending side can frequently offend knowing the attacking side can't kick to the corner and rumble over

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RAID ON


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 22:01
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by Full Bodied Red Full Bodied Red wrote:

Reduce substitutes and allow them to be used only for injuries. I’m aware this won’t be popular.


Or easy to administer I'm afraid. How would you tell a genuine injury from a tactical one?

I would go with reducing the number of replacements though.
 

What about no replacements to be used after 60 minutes. Any player 'injured' and who leaves the field, can be replaced but then automatically misses two games. Should cut down on any 'cheating' of the system. 

Advice from an independent doctor appointed as part of the match official long team.


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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 08:39
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Any player 'injured' and who leaves the field, can be replaced but then automatically misses two games. Should cut down on any 'cheating' of the system.

I've been saying this for a long time, although my immediate counter-argument is that players will play on through the pain because they don't want to be stood down for the next two games - or maybe would be under pressure from their coaches to stay on for the same reason - and would cause themselves greater long-term damage.



Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 15:12
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Any player 'injured' and who leaves the field, can be replaced but then automatically misses two games. Should cut down on any 'cheating' of the system.

I've been saying this for a long time, although my immediate counter-argument is that players will play on through the pain because they don't want to be stood down for the next two games - or maybe would be under pressure from their coaches to stay on for the same reason - and would cause themselves greater long-term damage.


Agree with the problems of players playing on injured. 

Without the need to stand down for subsequent games though all a player would need to do is tell the independent doctor that his neck aches and he needs to come off. The doc couldn't prove otherwise and would he be prepared to risk his professional reputation by telling a player he isn't really injured thus risking potentially serious injury?

Sorry but this idea just isn't sensible or practical. 



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