Wasps into administration
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Topic: Wasps into administration
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Subject: Wasps into administration
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 16:48
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wasps-face-relegation-from-gallagher-premiership-over-unpaid-bonds-kmmrdhnrg" rel="nofollow - Wasps face relegation from Gallagher Premiership over unpaid bonds
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Replies:
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 17:24
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What an complete mess. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 17:31
This won't help Worcester, the Premiership, The RFU or rugby in general. There could be a chain reaction ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 17:47
I agree on the last comment. Various message boards rumours about another club in difficulties. However I dont think we should confuse the poor state of the Premiership with the game as a whole. But this should be the time that the RFU set the direction and terms for the next agreement with the Premiership clubs and those terms should be more advantageous to the game as a whole than the 13 current Premiership clubs. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 17:54
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A fire sale merger of Wasps and Worcester playing at Sixways could be the answer. Worcester Wasps. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 18:06
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Where would they play if merged. ------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 18:21
Those of us who also frequent the RL message boards might well be aware of one that's been bubbling away for months.
------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 18:28
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Meanwhile over on Shedweb someone makes the point that 'rugby can't afford to lose established clubs' like Worcester and Wasps. Memory span of a goldfish. Top flight/list A rugby has 'lost' Moseley, Coventry, London Scottish, Richmond, Orrell, Waterloo, London Welsh, West Hartlepool etc. RU has done nothing but lose 'established clubs.' ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 19:39
In my experience a merger of two failing businesses rarely works.......just promote Doncaster and Ealing and send Wasps and Worcester to level 9 ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: omnes Paviores
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 20:33
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Does this suggest that Caldy replace Newcastle or any of the others nearing finance troubles. Oh what a rise to stardom for Caldy
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Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 20:58
A league or union club?
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 21:09
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62986407" rel="nofollow - Premiership club to appoint administrators to 'protect club's interests'
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Posted By: Marylebone
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 21:17
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Good point - but all of those clubs have survived and are still playing at various leagues. The make up of the top flight has radically changed. There is a common thread amongst the fallen giants: selling their grounds and not having a feasible replacement and/or the benefactors pulled out. When Dai Duckham’s Coventry and Sam Doble’s Moseley were the best teams in the country, Exeter, Saracens and Worcester were way down the league structure. ------------- “ Adventure and error go together” |
Posted By: Donnyknightfan
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 22:33
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Feel sorry for the staff and players at Wasps as it can’t be a nice situation to be in but I have no sympathy for the owners of Premiership Clubs who have been quite happy to ride the RFU and PRL gravy train whilst showing a complete lack of interest in the good of the game and also in the Championship. Our league has been sidelined and ignored for two decades. Covid threw a giant spanner in the works and laid bare the absolutely diabolical state that the professional game is in. The karma train is well and truly running the RFU and PRL over. ------------- Donny Knights - best team in Yorkshire |
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2022 at 22:52
| I predict that the PRL and RFU will invoke the relevant 'pandemic' clauses to justify not relegating Wasps, which blows me away as there is no real reason to protect them. Even from a geographic standpoint, there is a strong, well-supported Coventry team in place. |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 07:20
| I agree - PRL and RFU have been pretty spineless when dealing with Worcester's issues, and I can't see them letting another club go under if Worcester go to the wall. |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 07:41
I don't believe the Pandemic could be used as an excuse in either case. Worcester and presumably Wasps took the Covid money on offer from the Government which was intended to prevent issues like this. Wasps' mess is from the financial bond, not anything else. It always came with a risk and that risk was independent of Covid. I have totally sympathy with the supporters and players of both clubs but if the RFU want to stop the dominos toppling they have been really firm now, or else others will take advantage of that 'generosity' and we will be seeing more clubs fail without any real repercussions to them - only their creditors, whilst better run clubs are kept out of the elite and would be treated differently by the RFU. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 07:51
Ps. What the heck happened to the CVC money? ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 08:16
I was under the impression that the pandemic clause, was a recent addition and was to protect clubs from future pandemics, not the previous pandemic. And as Richard pointed out this goes way back to 2014. And yes what happened to the CVC money? For WASPS sake I hope they can resolve the problems they are experiencing, but if they are unable to do so then they should face the same penalties as other clubs prior to them. ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 08:30
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I have had an initial look at the accounts of a couple of the Premiership clubs and although it isn't clear to me I would suggest the CVC money may have been utilised by the shareholders by way of loans to them or one of their companies or by dividends if there were sufficient retained profits to do so. There is nothing financially or legally improper if they did that and they have all been supporting the financial haemorrhaging for many years and the CVC deal would have been a godsend to them. However, as events have subsequently unfolded it may have been more prudent to retain such funds within the company........perhaps some of the clubs did so. If I have some time this weekend I will do some proper analysis. In one set of accounts the balance sheet is only solvent because of the upwards revaluation of the P shares held by that particular company. With at least two clubs insolvent or close to insolvency it brings starkly into focus the value of the P shares..........this maybe another shoe waiting to drop
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 08:43
Union. ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 08:52
I get that, but the line of argument would perhaps have been better expressed as 'we don't want to lose these top table clubs from the top table.' The idea of working back up nine levels as some of the above have done isn't something seen as a realistic option. Wasps have already moved to the West Midlands just to 'guarantee' top level rugby, when the right thing to do would have been to find their level like every other club in the country. It's the divine right to the top table, or entitlement, that stinks. ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 09:16
On the last point exactly. The top players will generally play for the top division clubs. It doesn't matter if its Harlequins or Harrogate, Wasps or Wheatley Hills in the top flight because they would sign up the top players and whilst England will only select from Premiership clubs it matters even less. I suspect that if the worst happened to Wasps, we would see a 'merger' with the old Wasps FC and a 'restart' from that clubs league position rather than a start from the bottom again. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 09:39
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62992223" rel="nofollow - Bristol owner calls on Premiership Rugby to generate more revenue
Or try living within your means.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 09:50
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They cannot live within their means and compete with the top French clubs - who have twice the income. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: oldman
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 09:56
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Why do they need to compete with the French clubs? Drop the European cup, increase the size of the premiership and just play English clubs. One salary cap a level playing field. Or is this to simple? ------------- oldman |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 10:52
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because without Europe wide action, the French will just hoover up the English talent? ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 11:25
That is the $64,000 question. They want to compete with the French and win the European Challenge Cup as it seen asthe pinnacle of the club game in Europe, and with it I expect it is meant to bring financial rewards. I suspect in reality it doesn't bring in all that much in context. Being champions may help them recruit a player or two but then again you are back in the circle of hell in that you are probably having to pay over the rates to get those players. It would be interesting to know if attendences for the European games are higher than the Premiership. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 11:29
No. The French sensible have JIFF (I think thats the acroymn) that means they have to field so many French qualified players, which in effect relegates their need for English players - South Africans and Pacific Islanders are cheaper to meet their cap and All Blacks are a better 'publicity tool'. The Premiership clubs already have the rule that stops England from picking players from outside of the top flight to negate the impact of players moving abroad, so it is a non issue really. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 12:04
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Premiership attendance table for last season and this season is very revealing ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 12:08
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This is a very sorry saga and I feel for the staff, players, suppliers and supporters. Rugby finances are a mess at the top of the game. Rugby just does not have enough television pull to attract the level of sponsorship it requires. If businesses continue to make losses year after year then unless they have a ridiculously generous benefactor they deserve to go out of business . . its simple. Premiership rugby for most is simply unsustainable . . rugby has to find a level that it can afford. I greatest worry is that CVC are waiting in the wings ready to pounce and get control of the Premiership and six nations . . . then god only knows what they will do to the game!!! Ultimately live within your means and if you cannot find a level that you can. ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 12:17
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Runitback, that is the very essence of the issue. Rugby Union is a minority sport in the UK and other than the jingoism of the international game its television audience is very small. Can the audience and the revenues be grown as Stephen Lansdown is calling for? Personally I doubt it, the concussion issue and the complexity of the sport very much mitigates against it. The future isn't bright or orange ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 12:24
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Professional Rugby has been living in a fantasy world since professionalism kicked in. The fact that seemingly intelligent people are repeating the same mistakes over and over again is a more than worrying. As much as it pains me to say it. Football in England is King and rugby is just a lesser known royal who is only recognised by people who are interested. Very few clubs are sustainable without a big spender or two who like their club more than their money. The problem goes all the way through the leagues with South Leicester and Old Elthamians just more recent examples of the lack of sustainability. Clubs who own their own grounds (without mortgaging themselves to the hilt), have off field revenue and aren't in a rush to get to the top by spending heavily are more likely to be sustainable, but, only more likely, not guaranteed. What I would say, is that any one individual or group of individuals who purchase a professional sports team better have lots of spare cash to lose, because most of those teams only function with a big spender somewhere throwing cash at them. |
Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 12:28
I was thinking about that very thing yesterday, then I happened to watch a college (American) football game with 60,000 people in attendance. American Football is one of the most complex of sports and has a huge following with big names etc well outside the NFL. I think a bigger issue is, we've got too many sports on a weekend trying to grab everyone's attention and cash. And the vast majority of rugby supporters are probably at their own grassroots club or playing for their local team which all KO at 2/3pm on a Saturday.... Just take Sale Sharks, how many grass roots teams are kicking off at exactly the same time as them with a few hundred people watching/playing at every club in the North West
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Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 13:03
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I completely agree Jimbo Lad ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 15:11
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Good point, Jimbo! Go back 30 years and there were more teams playing every Saturday but the top Clubs had smaller gates. Professionalism required bigger incomes hence bigger gates. Gates grew up to the Pandemic while at the same time adult player participation fell. To me that suggests a finite level of interest in rugby that can be satisfied either by playing or by watching. I did go to Quins matches for a few seasons when I didn't want to travel to away matches and it was interesting to see how many of the crowd were of playing age, probably 25% in those days. Growing rugby overall as a sport is what is needed but that is a very difficult task. Playing participation up to the age of 16 seems to be healthy and is seen as beneficial but big Mini numbers don't translate to big adult playing numbers, or even spectator numbers. IMHO Wasps made a mistake in leaving West London and I have never been convinced by their business model. Just on another note, I am delighted that my Club does own its own ground and so may have a stronger Balance Sheet than other Clubs but revenue is still hard to come by and 1st XV success still depends on individuals signing up for sponsorship which, given the returns they get, is largely a corporate donation. The biggest return is, of course, tickets to England matches and striking a balance between tickets for sponsors and tickets for members is a major discussion issue.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 16:00
| Was reading about Roger Federer's retirement after this weekend's Laver Cup, a sort of Ryder Cup for tennis. Federer has been heavily involved in founding and promoting the event, which is sanctioned by the ATP. The regulations required players to play both singles and doubles in order to take part, but as Federer is carrying an injury he suggested that he could play doubles and then retire, with a sub coming in for him in the singles over w/e. Because it's him, the change was agreed. Expect a similar moving of the goalposts in our sport regarding the regulation that a club must be relegated from the Prem if it enters administration... |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 16:13
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Islander, You may well be right. In the good old days when even football clubs like Manchester United were still small businesses they were supported by local benefactors gate income and sometimes a bank would provide loan capital. Even then banks were wary of lending to football clubs because it was extremely difficult to call in their loans.........they were fearful that the local community would all move their bank accounts to a rival.......and the football stadium had little alternative use value other than flattening and then building housing. For political reasons the DCMS will be somewhat concerned at a backlash from voters and they are very unlikely to get anything out of an Administration ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 17:55
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There are around 75,000 people watching premiership rugby over a weekend - more if Saracens or Quins are playing in one of the large grounds. I doubt there are 10,000 watching the Championship I would be surprised if 6,000 watch the national leagues. There may to 2,000 other matches, but again, I doubt if they get more than 40,000 spectators, though it is 80,000 players. For m any second team games, the only spectator was walking his dog. There are probably more mums and dads in clubhouses on Sunday than fans watching on a Saturday. Though many of those would have been playing. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 18:04
totally agree with much of that, although I wonder if you're not a bit off for the national leagues - Mose had 1100 the other week which would mean we had slightly more than 1 in every six people watching at levels 3 and 4, which feels wrong instinctively. ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Marylebone
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 20:15
The Union club owned by the same person who owns the RL club, the RL club which has recently gone back to part time? ------------- “ Adventure and error go together” |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 20:21
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Looking at last year's attendance stats. in the championship the average gate was 1294 only 3 teams averaged over 1500, Coventry, Bedford and Cornish Pirates with Ealing and Doncaster just over 1000. London Scottish the lowest with 716. Any team going into the Premiership will find it difficult to fill 5000 seats and would rely on away teams bringing a big crowd. With things going crazy in the Premiership what happens at the end if Wasps and Worcester go into Administration which will mean both will be relegated, and the league down to 11, tough choices ahead go to 12 with the winner of Nat 1 promoted leaving Nat 1 at 13 plus 1 promoted from Nat 1 and no relegation making a league of 14, including Wasps and Worcester. 23-24 would be interesting. What then for Wasps and Worcester if only one could be promoted back leaving the other to stay for another year.
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Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 20:56
| With two or more clubs potentially going to the wall there is no way PRL or RFU will sanction automatic relegation, they will change the rules or invoke that it has already been agreed no relegation this year. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2022 at 21:29
| Trailfinder - I'd be a bit more worried about what Marleyborne has just posted if I were you?!?!? |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 07:33
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It's rumours, and I'm not repeating them. Not trying to be cryptic and part of me wishes I hadn't started this. It's really *not* Ealing though! ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Marylebone
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 09:13
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Also owns The only club apart from London outside the RL M62 heartland in their second tier this year? ------------- “ Adventure and error go together” |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 09:15
Could be any number of clubs.........the edifice is crumbling ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 09:34
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Well if we're being cryptic then its looks like Thunder outside! ------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet! |
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 09:58
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I think the club in question, "Marylebone", is well supported by its owners huge wealth but he is constantly challenging the management team to make the club break even and as such they have one of the lowest rugby budgets in the Premiership, which will probably correlate to their league position and led to the last DoR leaving. ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2022 at 20:56
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Coventry rugby comment... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0iqn5SFmG66uGsLbBaDpCkbPpxEwemRG7Q1ZAzcEuvSrWJwvG8JkHYVonZqFqMRqMl&id=100047124620081" rel="nofollow - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0iqn5SFmG66uGsLbBaDpCkbPpxEwemRG7Q1ZAzcEuvSrWJwvG8JkHYVoNZqFqMRqMl&id=100047124620081
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2022 at 19:18
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63135751" rel="nofollow - Financially-troubled Premiership club in talks with potential investors
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2022 at 13:26
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63155795" rel="nofollow - Coventry City Council 'may have right to force stadium ownership' forfeit
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2022 at 22:50
Blah. And indeed, blah. Dead men walking. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2022 at 10:08
| Worcester Stingers........................................................?? |
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 16:56
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63232043" rel="nofollow - Premiership club 'likely' to enter administration 'within days'
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Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 17:13
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So here we go again.!!!! Possibly two clubs get relligated to the championship ,then spend a shed load of cash to get promoted. As I have said previously why would any well run club want to join the Premiership? |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 18:42
So this means that two clubs need to be relegated from the Championship - unless, of course, they decide to go to 14 teams. And if the winners of the Championship were refused promotion for some reason - would that mean a third team relegated, with a massive knock-on effect all the way down the pyramid? I think the Championship needs to decide on its future structure and make a definitive announcement sooner rather than later, so that everyone knows what is happening at the bottom of the league (and at the top of National One). |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 18:53
That's another Sixfields groundshare for a Coventry tenant then! Though in reality, what can Wasps do if they get kicked out of the Ricoh? Back to High Wycombe?
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 19:08
There's an empty ground in Worcester  ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 19:23
| Wasps now suspended by the RFU according to reports. |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 21:12
I saw that on Twitter from @rugbyinsideline - but don’t find it to be an entirely reliable source - have you seen it elsewhere S@M?
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Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2022 at 22:00
It was announced at the end of the local BBC Evening News - following on from an earlier report on the club's move that day. BBC website has now updated their earlier article to cover the RFU's decision. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63232043" rel="nofollow - Wasps suspended from Premiership and set to enter administration 'within days' |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 10:22
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It is interesting to see some Wasps fans are now starting to work out the Premiership is based upon quick sand rather than solid foundations. Would they have had this epiphany had the financial woes not struck them? ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 14:21
Er, no. Certainly not a good many of them at least. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2022 at 17:37
It's the curse of Coventry, it kills rugby clubs.... ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 06:14
| Brutal article in the Daily Mail... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-11313121/amp/IAN-HERBERT-no-sympathy-parasite-Premiership-rugby-club-Wasps-adopted-city.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-11313121/amp/IAN-HERBERT-no-sympathy-parasite-Premiership-rugby-club-Wasps-adopted-city.html |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 16:04
Coventry RFC seemed fine when I went there for their beer fest earlier in the year
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 16:08
But it's true. Wasps became a franchise, trying to muscle into an area that already had an established rugby club. Anywhere in the Home Counties when they left Wycombe would have been OK and manageable but when you do an MK Dons and try to build your own fanbase there, it rarely works.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 17:49
Tee hee. Wakefield... ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 17:52
Good grief, I need a shower now. I clicked on a Daily Heil link. He's absolutely correct though, all said and done. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 20:45
| It seems they have been dead men walking for around a decade |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2022 at 13:50
| But defended to the hilt by some deluded folks running their SN forum! |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 12:21
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Today's Rugby Paper is suggesting a Wasps/London Irish merger playing out of Afc Wimbledon 's new ground. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 12:40
I go on there daily, just for a giggle. Shugs (or the Black Knight) is a superstar. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 12:41
Fisslerisms. Not saying it won't happen, but... ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 13:04
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I do not see the upside for London Irish. They have already absorbed Richmond and London Scottish, and of curse we see their colours prominently on the Irish shirt. I also do not see the upside for Wasps, their fans want a side in the Hampstead colours. They are more likely to go to Twyford Avenue than to support a merged side. Had you suggested merging with Quins, I would know it was a joke. Some rivalries run deep. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 13:28
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Irish had the Scottish and Richmond badges on the shirt until about 2013/14 but I do not believe they have appeared since. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 15:48
Last week Wasps and Wuss were merging, who else has got a ground in London................watch out Ealing....................
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 16:08
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Sweeney has finally noticed Professional Rugby is "broken". https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63276725" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63276725 Frankly, given he has been in post for four years, surely he should have spotted this earlier. In his own words, it has been this way since before Covid, that is throughout his tenure. So, surely he should be handing in his resignation. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: BE57 REF
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 20:02
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Couldn't agree more, Camquin. The BBC report is an astonishing admission that RFU have been asleep with him at the wheel. It beggars belief that RFU took no action on his watch other than to throw cash at PRL - and he can then come out all surprised and with a plan...... ------------- Just call me "Sir". |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 20:49
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If he implements the finance controls the whole Premiership will collapse Sweeney said he favours establishing a structure similar to the one that operates in France. (Extract from the BBC article below) There the game's financial health is policed by the DNACG - a body, independent of the French Rugby Federation (FFL) and the French National Rugby League (LNR), that safeguards the finances of the 30 professional clubs in the Top14 and Pro D2. "They define themselves as there to grow and protect the interests in the French game," Sweeney said, before highlighting the criteria each of the 30 clubs must meet in order to get a "licence to compete" - the right to start the season. "They have to have a complete review of their financial projections and business plan, their assumptions around ticketing and hospitality - if they look out of whack to previous years they are scaled back," he said. "They look at their projected finish in the league - which carries a bonus payment - and if they've finished no higher than ninth for the last 10 years and then say they're going to finish third that gets challenged." French clubs also have to keep 15% of their yearly cost projections in cash in the bank and any benefactor wanting to cover losses must supply a bank guarantee. Sweeney said the English game "needed something like that" in place. ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 21:18
I think members of this forum have been suggesting this for at least 5 years ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 22:33
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I think you will find Bill Sweeney has been working towards this but out of the public eye. The PRL funding was agreed in a deal well before he joined and it was written without get-out clauses. I have certainly heard him say at NCA AGMs in recent years that Clubs at every level must live within their means and I’ve also heard other members of his team suggest that the PRL model doesn’t work. What he said today isn't new, he has been saying it for some time. The problem is PRL and the people years ago who ceded control to them. We need 2 Professional Leagues of Clubs who own their grounds and can generate income to support their team.
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 07:07
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Central contracts being considered. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/16/bill-sweeney-10-team-premiership-rugby-union-central-contracts" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/16/bill-sweeney-10-team-premiership-rugby-union-central-contracts ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 07:43
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Avoid clashes with Internationals. But what will replace those nine weeks? Clubs still need income. ------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused. |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 08:05
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Telegraph article https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2022/10/16/central-contracts-part-nuclear-options-reshape-rugby/" rel="nofollow - 12ft | Central contracts part of 'nuclear' options to reshape rugby ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 08:44
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Bill Sweeney attended the NCA AGM spoke for ages about England & the Premiership with clear approval of them. Wouldn’t take open questions, they were filtered and changed through the chair. Said he was a great supporter of the NCA then a few weeks later withdrew all funding!! He said sod all about this at the meeting. Clueless or spineless you decide?
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 08:59
Could always just play midweek/Friday nights?
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Posted By: Fly Half
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 09:03
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As usual, Clubs are really only interested in their own good, not that of the game. As far as they are concerned, what is good for them, is good for everybody else, whether that Wasps remaining in the Premiership, clubs somehow wanting to retain ther shares (assets) even when in Administration, or going for a 10 team Premiership, as long as they are one of the 10. Pure selfishness. There is sufficient money in the game it just needs a dose of realism - reduce salaries and squad sizes.
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Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 13:19
| If the shares are worth anything shouldn’t they be made to sell them the pay some of their debt? |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 13:40
As I understand it they are forfeited if a club becomes insolvent under the terms of the share issue, so the value is not maintained by the insolvent club but with the holding company of whom shares they are. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 13:58
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When they formally enter administration, which they hadn't when I last looked, they will be forced to sell the shares back to the league. They are not tradeable. PRL is owned by two companies, one currently owned by a CVC subsidiary, and one owned by the clubs. Wasps will presumably get the same sum as Worcester, about £9m. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 14:12
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Meetings for Wasps Holdings employees have just commenced at the CBSA and the Henley training ground. The outcome could be very interesting. Both Arena companies have also just lodged their second seven-day Notice of Intent to enter Administration. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 14:20
Are you our reporter on the ground? ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 14:22
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Could be... Wasps Holdings Limited (the “Company”) was placed into Administration on 17 October 2022 and immediately ceased to trade. Further information is available https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wasps.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fandrew-sheridan-and-rajnesh-mittal-of-frp-were-appointed-as-administrators-of-wasps-holdings-limited-wasps-17-october-2022%2F&data=05%7C01%7Clucy.nottage%40wasps.co.uk%7C551d0031a0f44633bef008dab03d92f1%7Cb784fd431b354ea3bab91deb2a665e9c%7C1%7C0%7C638016075766673455%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zcy8bjraPRxix%2BilWqr0HncGs09fwuYtv66owaeBj6Q%3D&reserved=0" rel="nofollow - here . The affairs, business and property of the Company are being managed by Andrew Martin Sheridan and Rajnesh Mittal of FRP who were appointed Joint Administrators. The Joint Administrators act as agents of the Company and without personal liability. Please note that Arena Coventry Limited and IEC Experience Limited, which operate the businesses at arena in Coventry, are not in Administration and continue to trade as normal. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: oldman
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 14:52
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BBC reporting Wasps have gone into administration. ------------- oldman |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 15:17
Welcome to the party. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 15:32
| So, assuming the winners of the Championship get promoted, we're now looking at a 12 team Premiership and a 13 team Championship for next year. Unless Worcester get kicked to the bottom of the pyramid, which is the usual penalty for any club which fails to complete a season (and Wasps could yet be put in the same boat). So how many teams will be relegated from the Championship? Is this the time to expand to 14 teams, in-line with the national leagues, or should we be looking to mirror the number of clubs in the Premiership? And how many will that be? Ten? Twelve? The knock-on effect of this could impact relegations all down the pyramid. |
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 15:44
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63244504" rel="nofollow - Wasps: Premiership club follow Worcester Warriors into administration
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2022 at 16:41
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CCFC shouldn't really be affected whether or not the ACL business folds. They have the balance of a ten year agreement to play at the Arena, and even if ACL go bang in the next few days the City Council still own the freehold of the stadium and would likely have to step in as 'managers' again until a more certain future can be mapped out. Whether that is under Sisu or Mike Ashley, or somebody else, who knows? CCC will wish to keep the stadium business afloat to avoid the embarrassment to the city of losing so many pre-booked events, if for no other reason. On the upside, the Wasps club shop is still open so you can still get your first team replica top for ninety nicker... ------------- Our Club |