No, I want to see this be a good competition and not another farce from the RFU.

I find it interesting that they found a sponsor for this, but not for the Championship, Championship Cup or the National Leagues.

I know there is a glamour to a cup final.

However, there are weasel words in the announcement that it will be held at Twickenham or other prestigious stadium. So prepare for a trip to Darlington. :-)

I will also await with bated breath the scope of the travel bursary.

Twickenham is a prestigious stadium?

Regional 1 scheduled for 29th/30th April. Aren't England Women playing then against France? Curtain Raiser?

Level 6  106 of 144 entered

Level 7  121 of 217 entered

Level 8 86 of 312 entered

Level 9 and below around 60% entry

need to point out that at Level 8 there a lot of Lower XVs who are not eligible to enter

So presumably two level 6 sides go up to level 5 to make 64

So 24 level 7 sides fill in level 6 to make 128

leaving 97 + 86 = 183 = 128 + 57 or three groups of 64 with 7 byes in the first round.

Or am I being too sensible again.

What do 2nd Xvs do for the rest of the season?

Yes, you are! The lowest level competition at Regional 1 (the Bowl) features 'remaining teams, 9th-12 place, max 24 teams'. Despite this, the first round is marked 'Last 32'.

Regional Cups - starting 25th March

Counties Cups - starting 1st April (no joke)

I'm told there is some "Travel Funding" available for long distance trips, not sure what the criteria is and how much the magic RFU money tree will provide.

Think one or two in Regional South East maybe sweating or indeed looking forward to being drawn away at Camborne and vice versa. Likewise some clubs in South Cheshire might be less than please with a North East trip .....  and vice versa in the Counties draw. Wonder if they will "manage" the draw and try to keep distances short in the early rounds. 

The Regional 1 Championship (top tier) final is on 30th April, and all other finals will be on 7th May 

The RFU never mentioned Twickenham - the original document only talks about the competitions "culminating in ‘Community Game Finals’ to celebrate community rugby at prestigious locations."

A remember looking at the numbers in the original Adult Game Review - way back in 2016.

In that plan, there were cups for everyone. The support looked generous, until you factored in travel costs.

The winning team could just about afford to buy the team a beer, and twenty straws.  The runner-up was going to be out of pocket.

And yet, it would cost the RFU millions. Because a small amount of money to lots of sides soon adds up. And as soon as teams start needing overnight stays, the costs mount.

I believe the same was true in the last days of the old cup. I recall Cambridge's treasurer saying at the time that our cup run - including losing away at Old Deer Park - cost us money.

Finals still at Twickenham.

“ As far as possible, all 1st XVs who finish top of their leagues at Regional 1 and 2, Counties 1, 2 and 3 & below will qualify for their Championship, and the potential to play in the final at Twickenham. The final of the Regional 1 Championship will be played on Sunday 30th April and the other Championship Finals on Sunday 7th May.   All other Cup finals will be played on the weekend of 6th/7th May.

As Regional 1 South East ends this Saturday, with a couple of catch ups, 18tn March, then Wednesday (15th?) is after most of the league ends.

Madness sees one match scheduled in Midlands 1, 1st April.

Could anyone make up such a mess?

Will games be held 6th May? Coronation Day, or just 7th May?

Yep, that'll be our (Kenilworth's) rearranged fixture at home to Lichfield. Which could still affect vital league positions.

Ealing.... and I'm not kidding.

And with further postponements likely this weekend there will be other games on 1st April and maybe Kenilworth having a game the following week as well!

You must be joking.......

The Stoop, Welford Road, even the Rec people would love to have taken. But you cannot ever call Trailfinders Sports Ground "prestigious" (and that's not a slight against Ealing)

All the County Championships Finals (Div.2, Div. 3 and U20) apart from the Bill Beaumont Mens Div.1 Final & the Gill Burns Womens Div. 1 finals will be played at the Stadio Della Ealing in June!

The draw is out

https://www.rfulondon.com/forms/PJR1.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.rfulondon.com/forms/PJR1.pdf

Try that.

You have

Brighton (H)

Civil Service (A)

Weston-Super-Mare (H)

What were people expecting, England to suddenly concertina closer together for spring?

It is no wonder some of the more remote clubs pulled out.

I think it is the top seven from Regional 1 South West.

Weston to Brighton is not an easy journey - only 200 miles, but it will take over 4 hours each way.

And there are several others that will take over three hours and involve the M25 past Heathrow on a Saturday, well known for its flowing traffic.

Yes it was bad enough for the 2 South Notts clubs (Paviors and West Bridgford) to have to travel there in the league, DK is a fair bit further (but they will almost certainly be travelling to Redruth next season so good practice!).

I have heard Bournemouth have pulled out not fancying the short hop to Burton. 

We have 56 of the 72 teams,

I assume that the other 16 have chosen not to enter, due mainly to the distances involved.

Originally, 62 were said to have entered, so another six have pulled out.

What I see most teams are playing teams from a neighbouring region. Yes some travel, but clubs have a choice, which I guess is a part of player welfare?

Well regionalisation seems sensible but why don’t the RFU set out the parameters for how the draws are being made? How many clubs have been put off entering because they fear an away draw(s)  which would involve a long round trip and a big bill from the coach company even with a subsidy. 

They split the draw North and South, so Alnwick was not going to be drawn against Camborne.

But the downside of "you are going to play different opponents" is "you are going to trek halfway across the country" or at least outside the region your league covers.

Did they make that information available to the clubs and supporters? I can’t find any mention other than there are pools st the higher level and knock-out games ar level 7 and below 

Yes they did. It was in that draft that they put out at the start of the season.

https://rise.articulate.com/share/26CsHbwNnui6nhtbatR0v03gYNbPO02M#/lessons/S5JBqzATm-TcYOCGH-KSzdB0Oanu236b" rel="nofollow - https://rise.articulate.com/share/26CsHbwNnui6nhtbatR0v03gYNbPO02M#/lessons/S5JBqzATm-TcYOCGH-KSzdB0Oanu236b

I don't think it was explicitly spelt out, but if you looked at the suggested/ indicative draw in the original document it was clear that this was the plan.

I think there may have been and earlier draft that made the explicit. But I could be remembering earlier proposals from the AGR.

As ever, communication by the RFU was its usual standard.

I have not seen - but I am not a treasurer at a club involved - any documentation on travel support, or prize money.

But communication does not hide the fact that in five weeks of competition, you are only guaranteed one home match, and - should you reach the final - could be away for the other four weeks.

Or you could be at home three of the five weeks.

https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john 's-community-cup

My interest in this subject started when I was looking for Billingham’s draw.

Despite them walking their Regional One league it looks like they haven’t entered,  so presumably financial support not enough for them. 

So Dudley will get £796 for their trip to Alnwick, including the accommodation supplement.

That would just about pay for ten rooms in the Premier Inn in Alnwick on the Friday night, assuming the lads are prepared to double up. But not include breakfast or dinner.

And, of course, there is the coach on top of that.

The lower end of the competition has something like 70-odd 1st Round Byes which means if your Leagues finished last weekend or this weekend you don't play your first cup game until April 15th.

Oh and the finals venues are StoneX for the South (not Ealing) and Darlington MP in the North

https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/playing/papa-john 's-community-cup

You have to cut and paste the link the ' is a link killer

Ironically, they get it right in the text.

The apostrophe is only in the URL.

RFU and due diligence? Brilliant 

Blimey Gent's you really do need to get out a bit more, but if you can't  I've added some apostrophes in this sentence  for you to find 😂

Perhaps it should have read Papa Johns' as it's their Trophy, or maybe even Papa Johns's (doubtful) 

Possibly correct. But there's no doubt that it is "Papa Johns' brand name".

Can’t argue with that. 

Apparently Lincoln, Wthycombe and Aireborough have pulled out, giving Beverley, St Ives (SW), and Old Bedians Away Walkovers - to add to the byes.

Let me guess, they signed up knowing they might have to do long trips. They don't like the distances for the oppo so now they are pulling out?

AWO? So all three Home Clubs cried off?

From the little I know of the reasons for the pull-outs, I find the attitude of many clubs to be, frankly, quite appalling. Too far to travel? Horsepawpaw. We can't win against them? Cowardly horsepawpaw.

Anyone old enough to remember Thurrock beating Harlequins in the old JPS cup (I think it was)?  If you don't even turn up you should be ashamed.

Rant over- feel better for that.  

I suppose it makes me understand why we don’t have a knockout cups like Leagues Challenge Cup, or Footballs Cup, Trophy and Vase.

Let’s face it the early rounds are regional affairs. We don’t even have a national final (do we?)

I'm not quite as old as you but I share that sentiment. You entered that competition, you knew you might have to do a long away trip (the RFU didn't hide it, they made it very clear it would have at least 1 from SE/SC/SW and North equivalent), then honour your commitments and get a bit of money from the home game you have. If don't fancy it based on distance/oppo league position/no. of home games etc, then don't enter in the first place! What did these clubs think they were signing up for? 

The problem is that the RFU can't just do what they do in the leagues and dock points nor can they just ban them from entering next year lest it gets turned into more of a farce. Maybe next year, if its a super long distance then offer a little bit for some hotels and let them make it more of a tour than a long haul away game. Plus have all finals at Twickers like the Intermediate Cup/Senior Vase/Junior Vase at Level 6 were.

But I frankly ask those clubs, what are you here for? To play and promote the game plus get a bit of extra cash or just kowtow to a new boys club who say "I don't like it, too far, I want to watch Ant and Dec with the bird in the evening"?

Keighley HWO v Liverpool St Helens

Don’t think there has ever been a mention of prize money - don’t think anybody expects any.

No doubt Papa Johns will have provided a sum of money for community sponsorship and well done to them for doing so. 

The RFU will have estimated how much got travel etc would cost but presumably the reduction in entries, and the number of walkovers growing this week,  they may end up “quids in.” At least for this season

I’d like to be a fly in the wall when they meet in the summer to discuss the Community Cup.

But the club's didn't have to enter. They should have discussed player availability but Once they decided they should participate to the end. 

Would the draws be seeded (I.e.top 2 in league get home draw), would the early rounds be regional, where would the finals be played, how much financial support would there be for travel (turns out a third of the cost of a coach from what I can see), why is level 7 and below knockout (one away game costing you hundreds for a coach and you lose and that’s it - or worse still two away draws and you lose the second one)??

To be fair the weather hasn’t helped, so clubs drawn away at lower levels had only ten days to organise travel and alert players plus the finals are now on Coronation weekend - nightmare awaits for finalists trying to arrange travel etc.

Finally, it’s not players who decide these things it’s coaches and committees and I agree that if you entered the competition you should get on with it then shout loudly about how it should be organised next season -if held. 

BTW walkovers are now at 41 including Dudley Kingswinford who won Midlands 1  

Really? How do we know? Any players out there able to confirm they advocated this?

RFU determined to cut size of leagues simple as that. Fait accompli. 

BTW where can I find where these cry-offs are listed. Is it on the England rugby website ? 

https://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/search-results?competition=2106&season=2022-2023#results" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/search-results?competition=2106&season=2022-2023#results

The RFU used player quotes to justify reorganising the league.

The aim was to reduce travel, but a third of clubs ended up being promoted to fill spaces, so probably ended up with longer travel.

There were quotes supporting a cup, but not a cup held at the end of the season - including over Easter.

Fitting the shorter league season into fewer weeks meant fewer weeks off during the season, not more. The weather has not helped - but there was always going to be bad weather in at least some seasons.

Had the cup been interleaved, the cup weeks could be used by teams who have been knocked out as catch up weeks, or rest weeks.

Having cups organised as they are, has meant long journeys at the end of a season. Support was promised, but was never going to pay the full amount. And the extra matches and travel outweigh the reduction in leagues.

And I wrote to the RFU making those points at the time, and did not even get an acknowledgement.

Poor communication, both by the RFU, and possibly by clubs, has led to many players assuming the season ended at the end of the league.

So all in all a Right Foul Up.

There was none for the Intermediate Cup back in the day. But I do have to concur that communication was a big failure here.