Promotion and Relegation - It's hotting up
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Topic: Promotion and Relegation - It's hotting up
Posted By: Park Ranger
Subject: Promotion and Relegation - It's hotting up
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 06:10
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Promotion Park's game in hand over Caldy (Plymouth Albion at home) will take place on the final game of the season and Caldy will need to watch that result. Caldy are obviously the form team and it is difficult to predict who could beat them - maybe only Park and Rams for their away fixtures. Meanwhile Park have 4 huge banana skins - Cinderford and Blackheath away and Cambridge and Caldy at home. Then we have Caldy v Sale where someone is going to drop points. My prediction is Caldy Champions and Park runners up for the second promotion spot with Sale in third place. Relegation Blackheath are the key. They will be fighting for their survival now which makes their home game against Park very tasty indeed. What is for certain is that everything will go down to the wire. ------------- If you're not on the pitch you can't win the game |
Replies:
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 07:28
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Caldy can never be favourites for anything...........wooden hut, a pot noodle for lunch and an open field to play on with a couple of benches for the odd spectator...(and most of Caldy's spectators are distinctly odd) ........at best puts Caldy in the role of 'Pretender' Sale are the clear and obvious favourites.........they have a stand FFS and a much better nickname. Difficult for the 'Ravers' to ever be viewed as favourites when up against 'The Dogs of War' The 'Dogs' have 7 games remaining .....5 of which are at home The 'Ravers' have 7 games remaining ....4 are at home Park have 8 games remaining ...4 at home Amongst others the Ravers have to play Park, the Dogs and the Rams as well as Albion and Leeds who will be very much scrapping for points.......Taunton and Bishop Stortford are very capable of causing an upset. This week it is Plymouth Albion at home and the Ravers will have to up their intensity enormously because I understand that the giant father and son combo of Colin and Chris Bentley will be travelling to the Wirral to support Plymouth Albion. That gives the Albion an advantage before play even begins The Dogs have Rams and Cinderford both at home and a visit to Paton Field for a bit of pot noodle fun....the Dogs only other away game is against misfiring Moseley Park have Cambridge and the Ravers at home Predicted order 1. The Dogs of War 2. Park 3. Possibly the Ravers but the Rams/Cambridge and Cinderford are still in the mix
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 08:10
Big Eddie, you tease, don't be so coy! Who'd have thought that Ampthill's ground would pass muster - you have nothing to fear on that front - I'm sure you can dig deep for some extra champagne storage - or is it Cava? Predicting the end game might end up with you as champions - but we're too far out for that. Come back in four weeks time! Your ever loving, Foghorn ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Big Eddie wrote:Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 08:34
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Dear FHLH, I absolutely agree predicting the end game is foolish with a quarter of the season to go.....but I just had to challenge Park Ranger who was positioning Caldy as favourites and that just cannot be right...........the Caldy coaching team don't even realise there will be an end to the season because their focus is only ever the next game........ Anyway I don't think we have ever paired our pot noodles with Cava it just underwhelms. Our tipple of choice on coach journeys on the way to every game is South African Graham Beck Brut NV a first class methode champenoise sparkling wine that is terrific value ..... and a good Malbec on the way back......as ever the Ravers will stay true to their motto WOLWAOTB ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 08:37
I believe clubs that come up to the Championship have a predefined number of years in which to make improvements. I think Ampthill may be getting near to that deadline but I am not 100% on this - and last time I was down there someone in the clubhouse was mentioning that some improvement works may be in the pipeline. A flat surface to stand on whilst leaning against the rails would be welcome  ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 08:41
At least Ampthill have rails.............a bit of rope and road spikes have worked well for Caldy ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 09:44
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Ampthill were talking about a new site about 2 miles up the road. I assume it went quiet due to Covid. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 11:02
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A nice bit Park Ranger and great subject and Big Eddie always the underdog? Rewind a couple of seasons my friend and the battle at the top of Nat 2 north. Sale had to come to Caldy to win the league, about this time of the year if I recall,, history sir history, it does repeat itself! So, as I see it, Its Caldy's to lose .. I did say back at the start of the season, after seeing the pre season reports I fancied Caldy. I think a couple of things have come to light and we will know more after this coming week. If Cindy beat Park, I think Park do not finish in the top two. I think the loss of Howard in the back division is a major problem, reasons stated before, not sure if and when he is back, but he is a major key to Parks back division unlocking defences. I also think the fall out from Cokanasiga and Eshergate might affect Park. Will he be back in a Park shirt at 12 next week, or will he be at Esher. If as I suspect he is back at Park, then I think it totally devalues the loan system, turning out like he did last week and I think there might be some more fall out from it and the people that send him out on loan may make him stay at Esher for the honesty of the competition What Park cannot afford, is to lose both him and Howard. Rams are coming up hard on the rails, but I can see a Caldy/Sale 1-2 at the top At the bottom, well TJ's have already gone. The Blackheath v Leeds game this week is massive for both clubs, even though Leeds have games in hand. If Leeds win this then I think Blackheath finish 2nd to bottom and run the risk of going down. What I do think is mad, Blackheath offering the team £500 a man win bonus from last week, for each game won and then losing the last play of the game, but Blackheath obviously are very very desperate to stay in National 1 and are throwing that kind of money at it, to do it. The question is once they are safe, if they are, do they take that away again? Full views will be posted with this week previews as always Stay safe you all .. |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 11:15
It was a big day in late Spring 2017 when Caldy snatched the game from Sale after the Dogs of War had raced into what seemed to be an unassailable lead. The Dogs of War will still be smarting from that and their never say day attitude which has been on display in their last two games will be to the fore I am sure in the fixture on 23rd of April. If the game on 23rd April is half as good as it was back then I for one will be happy regardless of the result.........if the Dogs win I will buy Jimbo Lad a pint of 'Trappers Hat' an iconic Wirral beer.....with a very unusual and iconic name which I will relate to Jimbo Lad when we meet. Caldy are always underdogs in every game at this level........at least that is how I see it. Anyway we have to beat Albion/Leeds/Taunton/Park/Bishop Stortford and Rams before the Sale game comes around. We could lose any or all of those........ WOLWAOTB
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 11:29
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I get the impression there is no love lost between the Dogs and the Ravers. I was at Edgley Rd for Cambridge's great escape. We were reliant on one of Moseley or Caldy scoring in the dying minutes, but such was the maths, we did not mind who. There was a huge roar when Moseley scored to condemn Caldy to Nat2 - from the Sale fans. Technically, Cambridge still needed the fourth try at that point, but it was clear it was coming. The Sale boys were mentally already on their summer break. Anyhow, best of luck. But ideally lose to one of the banana skins and beat Rams - that way you might open the door for us. Though if we stay as we are, I will see you next year. I have still to make it up to the little wooden shack. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 11:32
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......and some Pot Noodle Camquin. I was at Moseley and of course was not aware of how the joyous Sale supporters celebrated as Caldy succumbed to Moseley in the final minutes to be sent tumbling back to National 2 North. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 11:41
Tragically, I no longer drink beer, but, if you have a decent whisky I'm more than happy with that. However as you say, there's lots of rugby to play and the top of the table might not look anything like it does now. Might be Rams as champions, with Cinderford and Cambridge in 2nd and 3rd. This league has been fantastic so far with teams causing upsets left right and centre! Early season, Sale were absolutely spanked by TJ's and Caldy were nilled by Birmingham Moseley and more recently Bishop's beat Rosslyn Park. No one is guaranteed a win in this league
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Posted By: hills17
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 13:04
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Looking forward to visiting Caldy again Saturday. Nice memories of visiting previously. Isn't it great it's so open at the top of the league, remember the Hartpury and Coventry walk overs. Will Rosslyn think finally if they finish in a promotion spot? As for the bottom, with Albion down there I don't want to comment too much but it seems Leeds won't go away which made our win important Saturday in a month of games where three homes games, two had to be targeted and Cinderford a point I would have taken prior to the game, Moseley was postponed in another that may have been close. Now into March and it changes to three away and one at home so see I will see where we are in April now as taking it one game at a time still. Pick up as many points as possible would be my aim. With the nature of all the leagues this season it seems, it wouldn't surprise me if still as close for everyone come a month time. It really would be a final run in then with fixtures against Leeds and Darlington away on successive weekends.
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Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 13:28
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Hot off the twitter : Bottom 3 will be going only one up All that money and Ealing still cannot buy their way in!!
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 13:36
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scrumtime - only the bottom 2 will be relegated from N1 as OEs are already out. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 13:43
Bottom 3. OEs will be placed at the bottom so including OEs 3 sides go down
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 13:43
Yes, I agree - just clarifying ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 14:35
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However, I do not believe OEs will enter a side into National 2 next season. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 14:44
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The Leeds match at Club this week takes on more interest now there are definitely two clubs going down. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 14:56
They can't do that. If they want to get back in the leagues, let them start again in Kent 2 and work their way back up like Richmond and London Welsh are.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 15:50
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I think they start from whichever merit league the amateur side - which used to be called the Bulls - is playing in, which was Kent Metropolitan 3. However, I have only seen details of their mini and youth this season. I do not know if they have any adult sides. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 16:01
I think that only works if the amateur side is still playing in the league (as Haywards Heath did this season) at the end of the season (it's how London Welsh got to restart in Herts/Middlesex 1 rather than 2). However, OEs do not appear in either Kent 3 Met or Rural (which isn't technically part of the RFU pyramid as Kent don't have 2nd teams in 1 or 2 unlike Sussex)
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 19:52
I don't think anyone is suggesting they will - at least I hope not, they withdrew and should start at the bottom. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 20:13
I think that the RFU should intervene and give OEs say £1m a year for the next 8 years to help the club out.............I mean every year they give nearly 3 times as much to a small number of other clubs.. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 07:43
I am still confused after reading the RFU statement again as it says only teams finishing 14th and 15th will be relegated along with OE'S, so not the bottom three as the league currently stands or am I missing something. Answers on a postcard pl ease  ------------- Cauliflower ear. |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 09:01
| It's the bottom two (14th and 15th) plus OEs. Scrumtime is being pedantic by saying OEs will be placed in 16th. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 09:33
| Whichever 2 clubs it turns out to be will be pretty miffed given that they will be the only relegations across the whole pyramid! As always decisions made when clubs have only a few games left to try and decide their fate - shambles! |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 10:14
...and if we wonder why such decisions are made so late in the day the answer is obvious....The RFU have absolutely zero interest in the game below the international level and the Premiership and it is completely clear they cannot devote any meaningful management resources to it....... ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 10:43
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The NCA table already excludes Old Elthamians. So that leaves two teams from the NCA table - those in 14 and 15th. The team that finishes top will be promoted. The teams that finish in 2nd to 13th will be joined by two promoted teams to make a league of 14. While Tonbridge could mathematically haul themselves out of the relegation zone, it would be a Lazarus like revival. But everyone from Leeds to Chinnor must have at least one eye on the trap door. Caldy lead, but there are five teams on their tale, and a lot of tough games to come. However, bar legal redress, the Championship is over. In National 2, there are really only five teams in contention in the North and four in the South. Everyone else playing for pride. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 13:32
Can't disagree with your assessment - with 2 months of the season to go this is an indication of how pointless league rugby is without relegation. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 18:04
| I would not be surprised if the RFU cancelled all promotion and relegation this season. At present they do not seem to know theirs hazelnuts from their elbows!!! |
Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 11:20
My thoughts exactly. Although with the constant changing of goalposts, I still expect either 1. Championship is suddenly 14 teams in line with National 1 and 2 2. No relegation from National 1 3. National 1 reamains at 16 clubs to keep top clubs at National 2 happy. If due to CoVid recovery teams cannot be relegated from Premiership, why should two clubs in National 1 be the only relegated teams? Don’t they deserve’CoVid recovery’? ------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 11:46
A fence with proper posts and rails around the pitch is one of the very very few requirements for promotion to the Champ. Compare and contrast with the cabal, sorry, Premiership. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 12:23
I suspect that point 2 would lead to legal challenges from the two N2 champions. If the Championship had been expanded to 14 as everyone seems to want there would have been no relegation required ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 12:31
I think it highly unlikely that Caldy will now quickly move to put in place post and rail fencing on the off chance that they could find themselves heading for the Championship next season.........I am sure they will take the same sensible option that Ealing and Doncaster did and wait to see if they actually win the league before going to such an inordinate expense.........likely to be a good few hundred quid ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 20:30
Hear hear
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Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2022 at 10:29
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We are now coming to the end of a season where promotion and relegation is still not decided. Yes the RFU have refused entry to the Premiership for Doncaster and Ealing which has resulted in only one up and two down, or is it. Both Clubs are appealing and are providing alternative grounds until their ground is brought up to spec. What happens if either or both win their appeal. I have read the legal comments else where which, based on the London Welsh appeal has a chance of succeeding . Will this change Promotion and relegation in Nat 1 or will the Championship play next season with 11 teams again. Leaving them with just 10 home games. I see that many of the championship clubs only have two more games left in the season. I cannot see how it will drag on into the summer as this will leave lower leagues with big fixture problems until the court cases are finalised. This should have been done at the start of the season and sorted by Xmas but this is the RFU we are talking about.
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Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2022 at 11:00
When the major problems and obstacles in any sport are caused by the lack of action/inequitable decision making by the sport's own governing body the inevitable conclusion is that the sport is well and truly in serious trouble. This is where rugby is at. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Park Ranger
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 07:38
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Predictably the top 3 all took maximum points on Saturday. At the bottom we saw another crushing defeat for Blackheath and now Leeds and Plymouth are sniffing a lifeline. At the top Sale don't play on 26th so it is highly likely that Park and Caldy will cash in. This brings us nicely to 2 April when Park play Caldy in the crunch fixture - Sale will know that someone is going to drop points. The following week Rams host Caldy. Its getting interesting. At the bottom Blackheath will definitely not fancy Park at home on 26th - lets see if Leeds and Plymouth can get any points from next weekend before we speculate further. ------------- If you're not on the pitch you can't win the game |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 08:09
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Rosslyn Park and Sale both have significantly easier final fixtures than Caldy. Rosslyn Park have Blackheath (a) /Caldy (h) /Chinnor (a)/Cambridge (h) /Juddians (a) and Plymouth (h) Sale have Cinderford (h) /Moseley (a) /Blackheath (h) /Caldy (a) and Chinnor (h) Caldy have Taunton (h)/Rosslyn Park (a)/Bishop Stortford (h)/Rams (a) and Sale (h) For Rosslyn Park only Caldy (h) and Cambridge (h) look to be potentially tough fixtures but Park have home advantage in both For Sale Cinderford and Caldy will be viewed as tricky but home advantage against Cinderford and a 'derby' against Caldy is a leveller for Sale Rosslyn Park has the edge for sure with Sale's playing resources and 3/2 home split of easier fixtures putting them as clear second favourites Caldy have it all to do WOLWAOTB ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: All the Way
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 08:42
| Silly question, do Rosslyn Park, Sale and Caldy all fancy going up to the Championship, or are they quite happy with Nat 1? |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 09:07
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I do not believe Cambridge, Cinderford or Rams have given up hope just yet. Remember Foinavon. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 09:28
I am sure they haven't Camquin and I hope they give it a real go to make this the most exciting league in English rugby this season. For the next 6 weeks The Rugby Paper should concentrate all its coverage on the proper competitive rugby in National 1 where promotion and relegation holds sway and everything is to play for Personally I think Cinderford and Rams are probably a couple of points or so too far behind where they need to be to overtake the favourites Sale or Rosslyn Park but they are both very good sides and they could do it and they will give it everything I am sure. I think Cambridge are the only one of the chasing group you have highlighted still realistically in the mix to win the league but all three teams will fight right to the very end to be as high as they can....and as you say anything can happen. If Cambridge win all their remaining games they are still relying on the top three to slip up elsewhere. I reckon the team that eventually wins National 1 will need to have a perfect 6 out of 6 bonus point wins in all their remaining fixtures. That is a very big ask ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 09:31
I am sure promotion is absolutely the focus for Rosslyn Park and Sale.........Caldy play to the beat of a different drum .......WOLWAOTB ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 09:50
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Until the loss in the rain up at the little wooden shack, we only needed to win all our games. But that's sport. We already have our fourth best points score at level 3. The rugby paper does need to cover the Ealing / Doncaster / Pirates battle, even if it will go to extra time in the courts, and there is plenty of rugby at the sharp end of National 2 and the Premier leagues. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 09:57
That was a proper game of rugby. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 10:50
Never give up but the 3 x defeats to Taunton, Leeds and Sale all with last kick of the game penalties has made the task exceedingly hard ... those extra 9 league points would have put us right in the running but that is sport for you ... If Caldy can beat Rosslyn Park and RAMS away and Sale at home, they DEFINITELY deserve to be in The Championship next season and good luck to them .... |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 13:36
Caldy will also need to beat Taunton and Bishop Stortford, probably with bonus points if this unlikely set of circumstances is to have any relevance for the league title..............all the longest of long shots. I wonder what odds I could get on that particular accumulator? ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 15:52
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Probably similar to Leicester in the premier league football a few years ago ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 17:22
I suspect you won't get great odds if Nick Royle is playing each of those games.... Man's a try scoring machine. I'm also quite impressed Big Eddie in how you've maintained that Caldy are the underdogs in all of this despite losing only three games this season and 12 wins on the bounce. Personally, I see Caldy topping the table, with 2nd place being decided between RP, Cinderford, Cambridge and Sale FC. The real contest will occur in the summer when Ealing/Doncaster have commenced their legal proceedings (assuming one of them wins the Championship) |
Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 17:24
Question is more likely to be based more on, do we want a Weekend in Jersey or Redruth.......
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Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 17:26
One of the few bright spots of a dismal season is that (assuming we can stay up and they come up) I've always enjoyed Redruth. ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 17:48
That is a reasonable observation Jimbo Lad but as Disraeli observed there are lies, damned lies and statistics . Caldy have been punching way above their weight all season long and as we come to the business end of the season it is likely to take its toll. At the start of the season I doubt anyone tipped Caldy to be in the mix towards the top of the table and if they had visited Paton Field on Saturday 18th September 2021 and saw the absolute shellacking Caldy were given by Moseley they would have happily placed Caldy at the other end of the table. The run in for Caldy is exceptionally tough and includes a visit from the 'Dogs' on April 23rd. If both Caldy and Sale are still in the mix then what a game it will be. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 18:09
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Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2022 at 18:27
I think if we were both mid-table it would still be a great game especially as I believe it is your past players day? I've only ever had frostbite or sunstroke at Caldy, so I'm looking forward to a lovely spring day.
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Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 07:20
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Jimbo Lad, I will have some sunscreen and a spare hat with me to ensure you are not too discomforted in your day out at Paton Field. There is likely to be a half decent crowd which I am sure Caldy will be able to accommodate on its extended bank. Whether Caldy will still be in the mix by then is highly uncertain.......four very tough games to play before Caldy's final game against Sale. It could be that Sale will already be Champions by the time the game comes around and we can have a bit of a party for you.........but even if this game is by then somehow still relevant for the league title Caldy will be playing in front of a gaggle of past players dining on the very best Pot Noodle available. If the game at the start of the season against Moseley (which was also in front of the Past Players) is a guide then this Caldy team will be so discombobulated that Sale could send their colts side and still win at a canter. I will bring some bubbly for you to celebrate your success
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 11:13
Not a silly question.If Ealing / Doncaster are successful in their anti competition cases then the 2nd place team in Nat 1 will need to put together a Championship squad in short order. I'm not sure what the minimum ground requirements are but again a short time to update facilities. Finally, if the 2nd place promoted team come bottom they must hope that Prem/Champ restructuring saves them from relegation in some way - the RFU have a habit of last minute volte face (but never usually in Nat 1 favour - think £75k funding cut, promotion down to one club) ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 12:33
Ground criteria are not onerous (unlike the ridiculous Prem!). Just a fence all around the playing area, and some access/medical stuff from memory. Oh, and a ban on Pot Noodles. Just worry about strengthening the squad appropriately. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 13:24
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Almost all Nat 1 clubs have played at Ampthill and while I love the Ampthill ground, partly because we tended to win there and lose to them at home, it is not luxurious. It did point up the requirement for access for an ambulance. As pot noodles are banned, would the second place side have to be promoted in place of any club that offered them :-) ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 13:53
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Absolutely matey. Go for it! Haven't been to Cambridge for a while...
------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2022 at 13:55
In the unlikely scenario that Caldy found itself in the absolutely bonkers position of winning this league I think the only strengthening likely to happen would be to get the current 5 or 6 long term injured players back to fitness and perhaps hope for a few other likely lads from other local Wirral clubs to want to have a go at a higher level. That is the only realistic scenario........other than perhaps upgrading the Pot Noodle to a bowl of Scouse ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 03:11
I am told that classic Wirral food is Watercress and Asparagus, when next in Heswall on ship restoration duty I hope to taste such fare...pot noodles with asparagus - marvellous ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 09:05
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FHLH, The Wirral is a great place to live but it isn't particularly known for its exciting and adventurous cuisine. I have rarely known either watercress or asparagus being a dish of choice.....it tends to be a little more rustic than that. Whilst there are few Michellin stars available on the Wirral more rudimentary fodder does seem to breed some very large and effective rugby players. One of the peninsula's largest and most fearsome players ever was the legendary tighthead prop Steve Clarke also known affectionately as the 'Beast of Birkenhead' This behemoth never got the prominence his ability deserved and he played most of his rugby at level 5 or below but he was one of the very best tightheads I have ever seen .......at any level. He terrorised Caldy for many years playing for his club Oldershaw but his startling ability really came to my attention when I went to Heywood Road to watch Cheshire preparing for the County Championship in a warm up fixture against the Sale Jets. Sale Jets were a talented side packed full of budding Premiership and England players like Ben Foden. Sale's dazzling warm up routine and confident demeanour previewed a tough night for the Cheshire lads. However this illusion was shattered when Sale encountered the reality of the power and ferocity of the Beast of Birkenhead. With Clarkey laying waste to all who opposed him, another magical player from the Wirral, New Brighton's Ian Kennedy ghosted past the Sale stars as if they were statues. In the end it wasn't close, from memory Cheshire racked up 50 points or more against the Sale Jets.........they couldn't play without the ball and the Beast ensured that. For many years the Beast of Birkenhead played at Birkenhead Park and we were never able to get him to Caldy...........but happily his son Tom Clarke is now one of Caldy's up and coming players and has featured in a number of National 1 games this season. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree and with the benefit of Caldy's Pot Noodles Clarkey.2 will be terrorising opponents for years to come. ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2022 at 09:42
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One of the most amusing 'forum' remarks I have ever read was indirectly down to the legendary personna of the Beast Of Birkenhead. When Yorkshire side Beverley RFC rose to level 5 one of their first home matches was against Birkenhead Park RFC. A few days before their game they created a banner across their website with the following words: "Will all Beverley supporters attending the home fixture against Birkenhead Park and intending to park in the Beaver street car park please ensure all hub caps are removed and locked in their car boots until the Birkenhead Park coach has left." I drew prominent attention to this advice on a rugby forum with the cautioning words that Steve Clarke ...the Beast of Birkenhead....wouldn't be happy. After the game (which Beverley won) I enquired on the same forum if anyone from Beverley had engaged with the Beast of Birkenhead on the matter. The witty and erudite response from a poster called 'Beverley Beaver' was unforgettable: "Big Eddie, I sat next to the Beast of Birkenhead during the post match meal and I was going to enquire if he was upset by our 'bit of fun' on the website. However, as I watched the Beast devour his pie beans and chips as though they had somehow done him some wrong, I decided it wasn't an appropriate topic of conversation" Priceless!
------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: pen 15
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 09:22
------------- is it stours year yet |
Posted By: Red over White
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 10:57
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Might be worth watching http://www.englandrugby.com/video/AvVvnluo%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/video/AvVvnluo |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 12:14
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But where do we fnd "the attached document" with the maps that he mentions. I know you can pause the video. It looks like they are draw up the leagues at these three levels, ad hoc. So while there is no formal "level transfer" there effectively is - as each league will be redrawn each year. And therefore, Chester will probably be in the South West. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 12:57
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It was sent out on Tuesday to secretary's at all clubs level 3,4 and 5 by the new RFU Competitions- Development Dept ( thats another £250k+ a year at least of wasted money, that they could give clubs or the Champ) I am sure if you ask Hailiford he will be able to post as the doc is pretty common knowledge
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Posted By: Clive Norling
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 19:39
Chester will be in the SOUTH WEST!!! That surely cannot be correct, please tell me that's an April Fools joke early? |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 19:41
| As it stands yes they will but all depends on the final 42 clubs in the mix which changes virtually every weekend after the results come in |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 22:38
| I do have the latest suggested structure, however, as has been pointed out, the actual make-up of next year’s Leagues at Level 4 will depend on who finishes where at the end of the season and whether Doncaster and Ealing win their Appeals. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2022 at 23:34
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We have known for over a year that if we do nothing, Chester are likely to travel to Redruth, or at worst Barnstaple. But what we get fas a video that talk about more local derbies. So what is the average and maximum travel per club at level 4 at the moment. What will it be after the reorg - based on current league positions. And the same for level 5 - where you need to add in the potential of cop games taking Bedford Athletic to Cambourne - and not the one in Cambridgeshire. I assume the numbers are not favourable - even in the best case - because, if they were, the RFU would be trumpeting them. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 08:04
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I suppose being cynical you could say that by reducing the number of clubs in each league you ARE reducing the travel by having less away games so maybe over a season the result might well be less miles travelled??? (Someone will do the maths I'm sure!!)
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 08:43
It’s Camborne. Spelling it correctly avoids any possible confusion with Cambourne in Cambridgeshire.
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Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 09:50
This probably needs some sort of rudimentary explanation for those that are wondering what this seemingly bizarre post is all about. Caldy's away coach trips are lively affairs. There are three distinct groups. Group one - the players Group two - the coaches and 'medical' staff Group three - the travelling 'Committee' Group one - are sober and responsible on the way to the match- but are generally Huckleberryly Pear, naked and irresponsible on the way home . Group two - are always sober and responsible (and never naked) in both directions Group three - are rarely sober in either direction but thankfully avoid nakedness at all costs Group three are well served by a 'coach menu' established by the iconic Derek Salisbury who always arrived with sumptuous cakes, splutteringly good Irish Coffee and copious amounts of gin and tonics for the enjoyment and delectation of the senior travelling party on the way to the game. One of the regular members of Group three was particularly partial to the 'home made Eccles Cakes baked by Derek's mother. The fact that this individual was diabetic was no barrier to the number of Eccles Cakes he could consume. Such was his gluttony for these current cakes he once proclaimed that they were better than sex. Derek Salisbury was so proud of the accolade that he posted it on social media...........and attracted a comment from the diabetic glutton's wife.....that such a claim was almost certainly correct in regard to sex she had with him .......but added the rider that it was completely incorrect in relation to sex she had with any others Sadly Derek Salisbury hasn't featured this season as his son Degsy Salisbury is now player coach at Anselmians RFC. However Derek's absence has helped a certain member of Group three to retain most of his limbs and appendages (and attempt some form of rapprochement with his wife) ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 09:53
Yes, however you have to factor in 2 less home games - attendances, lunches, beer sales etc. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 17:24
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Unfortunately, the Google distance matrix API which is what you need to generate detailed data, costs actual money, not a lot, but I am not sure if I want to spend my beer money on doing the RFU's job. Clubs at level 5 and the top 20 clubs at level 6 do not have fewer games, they trade four league matches for four "cup" matches. I am not sure that the lower league clubs have fewer games, they were in 10- or 12-team leagues and that does not change. And they do have at least two rounds of cup matches, and possibly more, at the end of the season. So Bedford Athletic play 26 league matches in Midlands One East this season, plus two Bedfordshire Cup matches, semi-final and final - in green,  Next season they will have twenty-two league matches plus two home and two away matches in the pool rounds of the cup. I got it wrong, They actually host Camborne and Dorking (yellow) and visit Brighton and Bracknell (green). They also play Bracknell in the league.  As ever everything can change and the cup pools are yet to be drawn, so will change. And it is one club picked more or less at random. But that is not fewer matches and more weekends off. And to my eye, it does not look like "more local derbies".And I know it is difficult, the country is "a funny shape", and there is a lot of opposition to radical change.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2022 at 18:11
Inconvenient truths. Get on message please!  ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2022 at 10:17
| I think that there will be a shock for all clubs travelling next season when the get the quote from their coach company with the price of diesel rocketing and need for companies to pay their drivers more I can see journeys costing up to 50% more, which will impact on the clubs playing budgets. With the loss of any travel subsidy from the RFU for level 3 and below clubs have already been looking at the travel impact. The travel in the leagues is not less , and if you add any cup games it could be worse. In the North West level 6 and 7 (if it exists) will actually be more if you include Cumbria and the IOM into the mix |
Posted By: Redredwine
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2022 at 10:42
| Coach prices from sunny Cumbria to the Wirral gone from £530 to £680 this week |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 17:19
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With the top of the table now resting on 16 April RP / Cambridge & 23 April Caldy / Sale (Ravers final game), attention needs to go to the Relegation zone. After today's results, 16 April brings DMP / Cinderford , Sale / Blackheath & Tykes / PA. 23 April brings Leeds/ DMP & Taunton / PA 30 April has DMP / Mose, Blackheath / Cinderford , Rosslyn Park / PA and Leeds/Taunton There's a tantalising last fixture on 7 May when Tykes play Cinderford . The South West in the guise of Taunton & Cinderford will decide the Relegation (and, of course, Plymouth) Assuming, not too unkindly I hope, that TJ are relegated, my forecast for end of season is 15 TJ 14 Leeds (45 pets) 13 Blackheath (52 pets) 12 PA (54 pets) 11 DMP (61 pets) 10 B/Stortford (65 pets) (and no, I can't find Ctrl-H on my Android phone)
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 18:20
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Everything hinges on Ealing's lawyers. If they succeed, it may just be TJ relegated. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 19:01
I think you will find if Ealing lawyers win It will be two 2 up TJs are relegated after todays results |
Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 20:51
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Yes, but the question is whether two or one will go down. On the face of it, it could mean mercy for (as it stands) Leeds Tykes. ------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group" |
Posted By: stonehousealbion
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 10:21
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"People make mistakes" - Boo in Fleabag. Whereas the RFU engineers them... Good luck to Ealing. If they succeed, they will earn the transient respect of everyone below them in English rugby. But they will also earn the undying contempt of the Prem cabal who will proceed to beat them like a ginger stepchild at every possible opportunity and cast them back whence they came. If, indeed, TJs are relegated - bravo and adieu. They gave us a game yesterday and fulfilled a contract their Kent neighbours were unable to. ------------- Come cheer up, my lads - 'tis to glory we steer! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 11:27
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Why is it people are permitted to pick on redheads. We seem to be the only group not given any protection. O well. I am hoping that the judge will not only rule in Ealing's favour, but also rule that the P-Shares are a restraint of trade and demand that PRL is with abolish or replaced by a company limited by guarantee with a nominal share capital and ensure Ealing are able to buy a full 1/14th share. But that will never happen. I am expecting that all attempts to create a sensible Championship Cup will fail - and RFU will decide to increase the size of the league to 16 - while further cutting funding - causing disruption throughout the pyramid as extra teams need to be promoted. The RFU will not start a review of the structure of the CC until 2025 at the end of the third season, its initial approach will be rejected, and a compromise will eventually be reached, which will not come into force until 2028. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: RedPete
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 11:44
 ------------- Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 12:45
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I think they can still mathematically overtake Leeds but Club or Albion. So as it stands, they are relegated. But, should Ealing win in court - and if Tonbridge were to get three bonus point wins and Leeds no more points, they would be level on points. But they must not lose to Leeds on Saturday. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2022 at 19:04
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Whoever is promoted this season, they will not score more than 4 points a game. Caldy can just scrape 4.00 if they get three bonus point wins from their last three matches. This will be one of the lowest points per game since bonus points were introduced. Only Jersey - 3.97 and Richmond 3.88 on both occasions have scored less. Caldy have exactly the same points from 25 games as Richmond scored in the interrupted 2019/2020 season. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 09:12
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Promotion and relegation are so important for the leagues, which is why the current situation with the Premiership and Championship is so farcial and blatantly unfair and if a Championship team ever does manage to get promoted I hope they have a billionaire backer! It looks like Caldy in prime position for promotion, but the challenge of Sale FC is fascinating and I hope there is a huge crowd at Paton Fields to watch the North West Derby. If either club is promoted what is their model going to be? Despite Caldy being " the little house on the Prairie" they have some well heeled members and might well be the natural home for aspiring RGC players, or do they form closer bond with Sale Sharks? Do they change their model or rely on their production line from minis and juniors? As for Sale FC . . would they go fulltime with the backing of Sale Sharks or just take more Academy players, closer to the Bedford model of this season? I wonder if a successful Sale FC team in the Championship might actually start to get better crowds than the Sharks at their new unloved stadium. Either way it is going to be a truly exciting end to the Season . . and I think either side is capable of surviving in the Championship. ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 09:45
If the Team/s coming up can survive the first season they have every chance. For most Teams coming up the first season is a bit of a challenge, especially if they don't recruit in some of the key areas. It will be nice to have some more "Northern" clubs in the Championship - I have yet to visit Caldy so would look forwards to that, been to Sale FC the ground is ok but getting served at the bar might be an issue (panic!)  It is great to see such a tight National 1 this year - hope we get to find out about Ealing soon so that they and the Team/s coming up can plan accordingly. ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 13:40
 stonehousealbion wrote:If, indeed, TJs are relegated - bravo and adieu. They gave us a game yesterday and fulfilled a contract their Kent neighbours were unable to. [/QUOTE]
Be careful what you wish for or who you have a pop at till a) you know the full story and b) you are out of your glass house. The Plymouth squad for this week is down to 17, thats a one side club with 17 players and some off them on loan....Be interesting to see if the 5 front row options are included in that 17 as per league rules!
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Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 14:23
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Yes the Albion situation looks very strange . . . why are they struggling for numbers so badly? ------------- Run with it |
Posted By: Saturnate
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 14:36
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The two subs both look like props, one from Brixham and one possibly back from retirement, but my googling may not be on the money |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 17:58
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They had three front row players on the bench at Cambridge. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Jasper99
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2022 at 18:14
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The Albion situation is farcical. No 2nd team means no development of players and no pathway for local talent to develop. The situation will become even worse next year if Albion try and start a 2nd XV as they'll have no-one to play with all the other clubs entering the league system. It also looks like atrocious future proofing from a rugby perspective in terms of assembling a squad?? Nat 1 is hugely attritional and a squad of 25-30 players is not going to cut the mustard. Not sure what Albion were thinking even 8 wks ago they should have been thinking 'what if' scenarios. Pre-season all Albion talked about was their Championship aspirations. They still insist they are a Championship side in exile. When they start showing Nat 1 some respect and focus on perhaps a mid table finish and limit their aspirations to maybe beating potential local rivals next year in Redruth and Taunton, then they may move forward again. New owners, new general manager, new coaching staff. Take your pick as to where the fault lies??
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Posted By: stonehousealbion
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 20:24
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Having just tried to decode a league table (again) without the habitual uniform number of games played, I was railing (in a general sense) against the farce of a 16 team league with only 14 x H/A fixtures. I will, as a supporter endeavour to respond your two points: "a) till... you know the full story" implies a currently incomplete story. I freely admit that my current knowledge is patchy/rusty. Is there a full story? If Yes, to whom is it known? And when are they going to impart it to the active participants in this league? b) the "sick list" is course, of subject to medical confidentiality. My understanding is that there is in the region of 15-20 injured players, several of whom are awaiting surgical consultations. Additionally, Devon has recently experienced higher than average levels of Covid infection. Our status as a one team club does not appear to have been a problem until this extraordinary season. (We arrived in 2015, and while never really challenging for promotion, we've engaged credibly and reasonably consistently in Nat 1. I am a great fan of the 30 games/no cup format, which seems ideal for L3 semi-pro players.) I think it has it's origins in the Championship era when participation in the Canterbury(?) Cup was skewed by clubs "up the line" hosting home fixtures and then balking at the logistics of fulfilling away fixtures which were equally inconveniently mid-week. I recall we played some "home" fixtures at Newbury. ------------- Come cheer up, my lads - 'tis to glory we steer! |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2022 at 21:23
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How a team which fields only 1 team each week, has declared bankruptcy more tha one owing suppliers a considerable amount of money and has 18 players last week then 17 players this week actually still exists is beyond me! As for it being a farce that there are only 14 home games in a 16 team league - get real OEs pulled out becaypuse they couldn't field a team - at least they were honest. A 1 team club iss not sustainable at the higher level! ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 10:06
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Sorry have to disagree, while having a second team would be beneficial it’s not always achievable. I don’t know about outside London but inside players want to be paid. Players with the ability to compete for a first team place expect more than the price of a couple of pints each week and believe it or not that is readily available especially around London. There are 8 clubs all within an hours travel for most of our players in Nat2 which would pay more than our second team and that number increases by plenty if you go down one more level again earning more. So as it is all about money these days your success also assists in your ability to recruit ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2022 at 10:21
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But you can afford to pay £10k a week extra on win bonus payments to try and stay in the league! |