I would love Donny to get the place but also see the case for Pirates but heart over mind for me

Always remember, lies, damned lies and statistics!

Region Population in '000's Population % Teams 2019/20 % Teams 2020/21 %

SE 18,142 32% 3 25% 2 17%

West 5,625 10% 4 33% 4 33%

Midlands 17,006 30% 4 33% 4 33%

North 15,514 28% 1 8% 2 17%

Region Population in '000's Population % Teams 2019/20 % Teams 2020/21 %

SE 18,142 32% 3 25% 2 17%

West 5,625 10% 4 33% 4 33%

Midlands 17,006 30% 4 33% 4 33%

North 15,514 28% 1 8% 2 17%

We all know that the RFU love Yorkshire (well, Leeds in particular) but Anglia deserves an equitable slice of the national cake in order to bring on its own youngsters.

If you take the RFU Divisional structure Anglia is part of the Midlands.

If you split each Divisional area into two, Anglia remains part of the East Midlands area, in the same way Yorkshire would fall into the North East area with Durham and Northumberland. 

Its only when you divide into 16ths that you can consider Anglia to be separate. 

In the past Northampton have claimed they are a East of England side, to differentiate them from the obviously based East Midlands side in Leicester. 

Pappashanga

Eastern Counties includes Cambridgeshire which is not in East Anglia being West of the Devil's Dyke. 

Next season, if it happens, is arguably not the time that the decision should be made, but if all sides are given sufficient notice that 21/22 will be “normal” then perhaps the end of that season will be.

Who will pass the ground criteria restrictions though?

On a slightly different slant - doesn’t Saracens still need to evidence their books at the end of next season to show they have financially operated for two years within the PRL defined rules for entry into the Prem? As such will they achieve promotion next season (based on the predictions being made on here)? Sorry for the slight change in topic, and if I missed it being stated elsewhere 

I thought that one had been clarified as either no longer the case, or duff information (i.e. was never the case to start with and just an internet rumour)?

The number of supporters, ground capacity, most financially stable and free of debt, the club who gives back the most to community rugby !, the team with the best set up to promote rugby and education giving young players a life after the short window of pro rugby.

Other considerations are geography / location, allowing an even spread throughout the country and considering the RFU six centres of excellence . The new arrangement for RFU / Premiership academies.

CVC are not subsidising the Premiership - they own a percentage of the TV rights  and they will take their money every season and will get their money back in a few years - and still own shares.

The Premiership sides are gambling that reduced debt payments plus CVC selling extra TV rights will make up for the money going to CVC.

I cannot argue with your logic - yes 2nd should get the prize but perhaps a play off of the 2nd to 5th team would add excitement to the end of season the £20 million finale (based on possible monies over the following 5 years that team would get) - all fantasy of course because the RFU / PRL will get what they want.

It is not a subsidy but the business required propping up and CVC recognised the opportunity. They may change the entire sport of Rugby Union, we will have to wait and see.

I wonder how many of the Premier clubs have already used up their CVC money? Worcester,Irish,Newcastle?

As mentioned above PE are absolutely ruthless and have only one objective,maximising their return. Anyone who thinks that they will say,never mind or pay when you can or just try your best,are living in cloud cuckoo land.

With the next tv deal almost certainly going to be lower,clubs may shortly have to live on 70% of a smaller pot.

I think this is a good point, if CVC are the main influencers then the club with the greatest revenue potential will be looked upon more favourably. With that in mind then, out of  Ealing, Doncaster and Pirates who has the greatest potential fan base? Maybe Donny should think about rebranding to appeal to a wider catchment area...

Pirates have the advantage that there is no other pro rugby in Cornwall and the only pro football is Truro City, who are now under the Pirates umbrella and are a long way off league status at the moment. Cornwall is a traditional rugby heartland and the potential to attract more support when we move to a new , more central, location, in Truro is definitely there.

I wonder if it will be like formula one where you buy your way in and bring sponsors to the table. 

It's a gamble for the clubs. They hope that CVC can get higher figures for the above and therefore the Premiership club share is financially larger on a smaller percentage of the cut. 

If the figures are not increased, and in a post covid world, it's looking less likely, then clubs will get less of the deals signed. With potentially a smaller amount coming from the RFU in the future the club s will be squeezed at both ends. 

Thanks Raider,

to be fair,I dont mind using the money to improve the facilities,its using it to pay off loans,increased salaries etc that I'm against. Once it's gone,it's gone !

Commercial rights !. Will that include revenue from beer sales / bar takings , food and gate money ? possibly a share of sponsors contributions ?. I am not sure that is correct and however would it be policed and I am not saying that clubs cheat , steal and con anyone.......god forbid.

It can only be TV rights and sponsors from TV  I believe.

With Bris being awash with their owner's cash, the CVC bounty was just fruit on the top.

Wasps, however, could only use it to chip away at a little of their massive year-on-year losses.

I'd think that's more the norm across the league.

Commercial rights don't include the individual club revenue but those held jointly by all clubs - which are the TV rights and the sponsorship rights to League, Cup etc. However, it could impact on individual clubs if they are currently sponsored by a rival product. 

For example if Club A is sponsored by Motorcar company A, but Motorcar Company B is the new league sponsor, there may be a ban on competing companies as part of the contract and Club A would have to lose their sponsor. 

What I can see happening is far more 'minor' sponsorship - Man of the Match sponsor league wide;  officail travel by X;  Y is the official beer of the league etc. The RFU do this very well and it will be interesting to see how any potential clashes are dealt with and who ultimately has the last word. 

Didn't Wasps make a rights issue about five years ago which suddenly made them the richest club in Europe, and was going to enable them to compete with the top French clubs for world-class signings?

CVC was a gamble by the Premiership that increased revenues from broadcast rights and league sponsorship would more than cover the diluted shareholding.  It was always a gamble and one that C-19 has made far riskier.  The pious hope that the upfront cash would be used for infrastructure was just that, a hope.  Bristol may have used it for the fantastic training centre (and it is genuinely impressive - just so long as they look after the woodwork) but that project was already set to go, so the money was already going to be spent.   As for awash with money, Steve Lansdown didn't get to be a billionaire by running a free unicorn sanctuary.

So, CVC are already the 14th club and does the Premiership need yet another club to further dilute income?  It would really have to bring something to the table.  Ealing?  A poorly supported club in an already crowded part of the world?  Pirates?  I understand the romanticism attached to them but, as regular readers will know, I have always been dubious about the underlying realities.

Perhaps the Championship needs a club to do something like Wasps and move from its home to exploit a new marketplace in order for it to progress.  If that's what you mean by progress of course.  Sadly I think that the absence of a top club in the south is an area for exploitation, an area with a large well-off population and good transport.  Brighton maybe. Southampton or Bournemouth?  Alternatively, what could (Birmingham) Moseley achieve with the right financial backing if it could commercially exploit its catchment area.

Economically the Premiership should reduce the number of teams not increase them.

If it could find three or five owners willing to give up the unequal fight and walk away it would end up with aeight or ten team league and up to 50% extra TV reventue.

Except the TV audience might get fed up of seeing Leicester play Newcastle (two pick two at random) four times a season.

the logic for a 14th club is purely that economically they cannot afford to have the thirteenth club outside the Premiership - especially if the Championship drops in standard - and logistically 13 teams is a nightmare.

24 games over 26 weeks for a 13 team league probably means dropping the Mickey Mouse Cup.

26 games in 26 weeks brings an extra home game - so probably a net extra £100k in gate, wet sales etc.

But the extra gate is more than lost in lost TV revenue.

If you look at the 2012/3 national 2 South Season which was played with 15 teams:

Worthing who had byes in the first and last wek of the scheduled season - though had a rearranged game to play - had their last home game on April 13th.A minor inconvenience. 

Canterbury had a bye on December 15th which meant they did not have a home game in December.

Bournemouth did not have a home game between the 9th Math and 20th April as they were away the two weeks before their home bye.

Clifton had a home game on 2nd February, with the weeks off during the 6 nations and a bye, their next home game was 23rd March.

If it were to stay at 13 there would be inevitable rows about which clubs were benefiting from rest weekends during international windows.

Wouldn’t it be good to just be able to watch a match??

Ha ha, yeah. Still chuckling about that one.

Those £100 bonds are now worth 40 nicker.

It'll be interesting when they mature in a year or so.

Camquin wrote: Am I correct to believe that these bonds are due to pay £6.50 a year in interest and then in 2 years the club is due to repay the full £100, but the market price is £40.   So the market is essentially saying it thinks Wasps is as likely as to  default as to pay up.

At £40 the market is saying that they will not be paying their bond back at par and a restructuring (a partial default) is probably inevitable.

There have been quite a few trades, and the value has been well below 40 quid before now.

There is regular speculation that Sisu (owners of CCFC) have been buying.

That could be fun, especially if their plans for a new stadium at the University of Warwick proves to be just a ruse.

The bye weeks are the week you would play the missing team. 

However, every side has to have two home and two away games in succession,as otherwise you cannot played the sides who were in phase with you on the first week.  So some clubs will hit the bye before or after their two away games.

I am not quite sure why we play the games in the order we do. There is no need for the order in the second half to match that in the first. They could be shuffled. But someone will have a bye in week one and in the final week. 

I should also point out that the examples I gave the bye weeks were of course caused by Rugby pulling out late. had the organisers known in advance that there would be bye weeks, they could have shuffled the order to ensure that the team with the bye in between the two weeks off (Clifton)  were having an away match and were therefore at home one of the weeks either side.

But the fundamentals do not change.

Agreed, but could be interesting if they make a concerted effort.

Best bet would be to knock the thing down and extend the shopping centre all the way up to the Beduth border. Proper competition for Fosse Park 

Were you lying on the ground? It really is quite small apart from one of the biggest Tescos around. You could probably fit about six in Fosse Park.

Apart from the Tesco it's a pretty poor excuse of a retail park...

Quite. But enough of crappy shops now 😉

The Ealing  Trailfinders home  crowd is steadily growing it is the visiting crowd that are visibly smaller........I wonder why!