So, 2023/24 fixtures?
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Topic: So, 2023/24 fixtures?
Posted By: Whistle watcher
Subject: So, 2023/24 fixtures?
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 09:54
Any ideas when they're likely to be out. Planning to do, you see.
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Replies:
Posted By: Cherub
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 10:09
Well, as Wasps might be in there somewhere, and of course, London Irish are also now in the running, I am guessing the fixture list will not be released for sometime yet. I often wonder if my team, Ampthill, have ever regretted getting promotion to an under-funded league where the only place they can go is down.
------------- Always trying to stay bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.
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Posted By: Cov kid 42
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 10:11
Planning !!! I refer of course to the RFU, PRL etc.Fixtures, we have no idea of the format for the Championship, so heaven only knows when fixtures might be out ![Unhappy Unhappy](smileys/smiley6.gif)
------------- John Butler
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 12:04
The RFU have at least set a deadline for LI and Wasps to find their elbow with both hands and a map.
What odds on them extending it?
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 12:35
Cov kid 42 wrote:
Planning !!! I refer of course to the RFU, PRL etc.Fixtures, we have no idea of the format for the Championship, so heaven only knows when fixtures might be out ![Unhappy Unhappy](smileys/smiley6.gif) |
Pretty sure the PRL will not have anything to do with the Championships fixture list, I think the Arrrrrgh F U make a mess of that all on their own.
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Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 12:41
I believe the words used regarding London Irish is suspending - does that not mean to temporarily prevent from continuing. As such I do not see mention of "but we will slot you in to the Championship for a season"
------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 13:15
Whistle watcher wrote:
Any ideas when they're likely to be out. Planning to do, you see. |
This is for France d2 of course?
------------- Our City, Our Club
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 14:05
The 'surely the fixtures will be out soon?' question is traditionally asked every year at around this time...
Experience suggests they won't be with us soon. Over the last 10 seasons they've been issued 6 times between 22-25 June. There was one early year (2017 - 9 June) and one late one (2016 - 8 July). The other 2 years were Covid-affected: no summer announcement at all in 2020, and a late one (21 July) the following year.
On top of the trend above, there are quite a few uncertainties at present, as others have mentioned. All we've had so far is dates for the Prem/Champ Cup - 5 weekends starting 2nd w/e of Sept - and an indication the league will start on w/e of 21 Oct.
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 16:00
Cherub wrote:
Well, as Wasps might be in there somewhere, and of course, London Irish are also now in the running, I am guessing the fixture list will not be released for sometime yet. I often wonder if my team, Ampthill, have ever regretted getting promotion to an under-funded league where the only place they can go is down. |
Regrets? When you have played your town cousins Blues in competition?
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: Cherub
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 16:33
kempstonblue wrote:
Cherub wrote:
Well, as Wasps might be in there somewhere, and of course, London Irish are also now in the running, I am guessing the fixture list will not be released for sometime yet. I often wonder if my team, Ampthill, have ever regretted getting promotion to an under-funded league where the only place they can go is down. |
Regrets? When you have played your town cousins Blues in competition? |
True. That is a positive. A packed Goldington Road. Oodles of atmosphere. Yet Sky, or anyone else, cannot sell it. Meanwhile, on their cricket channel, they will happily show every single ball bowled in a five day test match between West Indies and Sri Lanka, where there are more players on the pitch than there are in the crowd. I have heard that NASA want to hire some of these cricket grounds to train their astronauts. Seemingly it is perfect due to their lack of atmosphere……
------------- Always trying to stay bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 16:38
Cherub wrote:
kempstonblue wrote:
Cherub wrote:
Well, as Wasps might be in there somewhere, and of course, London Irish are also now in the running, I am guessing the fixture list will not be released for sometime yet. I often wonder if my team, Ampthill, have ever regretted getting promotion to an under-funded league where the only place they can go is down. |
Regrets? When you have played your town cousins Blues in competition? |
True. That is a positive. A packed Goldington Road. Oodles of atmosphere. Yet Sky, or anyone else, cannot sell it. Meanwhile, on their cricket channel, they will happily show every single ball bowled in a five day test match between West Indies and Sri Lanka, where there are more players on the pitch than there are in the crowd. I have heard that NASA want to hire some of these cricket grounds to train their astronauts. Seemingly it is perfect due to their lack of atmosphere…… |
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Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 16:43
Cherub wrote:
True. That is a positive. A packed Goldington Road. Oodles of atmosphere. Yet Sky, or anyone else, cannot sell it. Meanwhile, on their cricket channel, they will happily show every single ball bowled in a five day test match between West Indies and Sri Lanka, where there are more players on the pitch than there are in the crowd. I have heard that NASA want to hire some of these cricket grounds to train their astronauts. Seemingly it is perfect due to their lack of atmosphere…… |
I think it's more that globally more people want to bet on West Indies v Sri Lanka than do on Bedford v Ampthill. On that basis it's got nothing to do with how many spectators are in the ground - the Sky Cricket channel will make its money from syndicating the broadcast.
------------- keep the faith
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 17 May 2023 at 21:50
billesleyexile wrote:
Cherub wrote:
True. That is a positive. A packed Goldington Road. Oodles of atmosphere. Yet Sky, or anyone else, cannot sell it. Meanwhile, on their cricket channel, they will happily show every single ball bowled in a five day test match between West Indies and Sri Lanka, where there are more players on the pitch than there are in the crowd. I have heard that NASA want to hire some of these cricket grounds to train their astronauts. Seemingly it is perfect due to their lack of atmosphere…… |
I think it's more that globally more people want to bet on West Indies v Sri Lanka than do on Bedford v Ampthill. On that basis it's got nothing to do with how many spectators are in the ground - the Sky Cricket channel will make its money from syndicating the broadcast. |
Think the clue is in the name - CRICKET channel - I would suspect the rights are not very high.
However, considering they have no domestic RU rights I would have thought the Championship ought to be able to sort out a deal. With Sky - any extra income would be good.
Oh sorry, forgot the RFU control the rights and pocket any income.
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: Happy
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 17:17
So wasps to the bottom of the pyramid......that should make things interesting
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Posted By: Ealing Exile
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 17:28
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 17:33
We do not know, though we believe that the Prem cup needs 24 teams.
Which would imply they do.
In which case Esher should stay up - and so on.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 17:47
Shouldn't Rams go up and Richmond go down? ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
------------- Enjoying life!
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Posted By: Whistle watcher
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 17:53
Or they re-vamp the prem cup thing and make it for 20 teams instead which, with London Irish int he precarious position they're in, might come to fruition.
Crikey. 11 in the Champ and 9 in the Prem...
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 18:37
Jester10 wrote:
Shouldn't Rams go up and Richmond go down? ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
or alternately the RFU could give a Championship place to a different club with no ground and no players that is currently a figment in Laurence Dallaglio's imagination.
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Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 18:55
Jester10 wrote:
Shouldn't Rams go up and Richmond go down? ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
Totally - a team that wins 22 league games and losses out on point difference for promotion. RFU must promote a proper rugby club. ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif)
------------- Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!
Seven down one to go
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Posted By: greenpower
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 18:57
yes one that dosnt use loan players to get out of the sh/t![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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Posted By: Exiled_Scots
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 19:07
greenpower wrote:
yes one that dosnt use loan players to get out of the sh/t![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) |
Yes or run one or more teams below the main team or juniors or minis - clearly one which uses loan players cannot be a proper club unlike the other teams in the Championship which are kept afloat solely by wealthy businessmen who fund their club to keep them afloat.
No wonder league rugby in England is in such a state.
------------- Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!
Seven down one to go
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 19:22
Jester10 wrote:
Shouldn't Rams go up and Richmond go down? ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
Makes sense except for National 1 finances
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 20:49
Excellent sources tell me no change to National 1. Championship will run as last season swapping Cambridge for Richmond. Only issue will be the Cup - 23 or 22 teams! Perhaps they will pull in two University teams to make up the numbers.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 18 May 2023 at 20:50
Jester10 wrote:
Shouldn't Rams go up and Richmond go down? ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) |
If you follow Premiership precedent, they usually give the team that would have been relegated a reprieve.
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Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 10:24
BTW - My comment about Rams should be promoted was sponsored by half a bottle of rather decent Malbec ![Tongue Tongue](smileys/smiley17.gif)
------------- Enjoying life!
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 14:36
Exiled_Scots wrote:
greenpower wrote:
yes one that dosnt use loan players to get out of the sh/t![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) |
Yes or run one or more teams below the main team or juniors or minis - clearly one which uses loan players cannot be a proper club unlike the other teams in the Championship which are kept afloat solely by wealthy businessmen who fund their club to keep them afloat.
No wonder league rugby in England is in such a state. |
So you are saying every other Championship club is kept afloat solely by wealthy businessmen are you?
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Posted By: Breakdown
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 15:53
My understanding is that Richmond go down regardless because promotion/relegation at Tier 2/3 was never dependent on the ultimate fate of Wasps, Worcester or anyone else.
But on the point about who "should" or should not be in the Championship, it does seem to me as a biased observer that it says a lot about the state of the game that the club being relegated is the one
* with its own ground * with 4 Men's XVs (+Vets), 2 Women's TVs, Colts, Students, Juniors and Minis (approx 550) * financially self-sustaining after the horror of the Premiership * that has never used more than 3 and normally no more than 2 Loanees/DRs in a 23 * that has a substantial cash balance in the bank * which has no wealthy owners (unless you count the entire membership/ownership corpus as being collectively wealthy, which I am sure it is) * that does not pay unsustainable salaries to players but helps them have careers as well as playing at the highest possible level * that competes with fully professional teams (most of the time, if not quite well enough) on two training sessions a week * that sustains the spirit of rugby in its playing ethos * that has cheap beer * that tries to put up with the conduct of other clubs that behave, shall we say, not always in the most gentlemanly of ways, without too much moaning.
I am not saying nobody else has any of those factors, but nobody else has all of them. So all the other things people moan about (loans, sugar daddies, teams v clubs) do not apply to Richmond, but we are the ones who are dropping out.
Like I say, to me, that says a lot about the way rugby is heading.
------------- Broken down. Beyond repair.
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Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:05
Sentiment aside Breakdown, Richmond finished in the relegation spot irrespective of what other teams did which was totally within the rules. Last season we had the farce where only 2 teams in the country were relegated both from Nat 1 and the teams that replaced them have come straight back down but thems the breaks so we have get on with it. I’m quite sure Richmond will be pushing at the top end of N1 next season and perhaps you will enjoy winning a league game again and resetting similar to what Blackheath have done this year, although it’s a bitter pill in sport sometimes you need to swallow it.
------------- So many Christians not enough Lions
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:08
Breakdown wrote:
My understanding is that Richmond go down regardless because promotion/relegation at Tier 2/3 was never dependent on the ultimate fate of Wasps, Worcester or anyone else.
But on the point about who "should" or should not be in the Championship, it does seem to me as a biased observer that it says a lot about the state of the game that the club being relegated is the one
* with its own ground * with 4 Men's XVs (+Vets), 2 Women's TVs, Colts, Students, Juniors and Minis (approx 550) * financially self-sustaining after the horror of the Premiership * that has never used more than 3 and normally no more than 2 Loanees/DRs in a 23 * that has a substantial cash balance in the bank * which has no wealthy owners (unless you count the entire membership/ownership corpus as being collectively wealthy, which I am sure it is) * that does not pay unsustainable salaries to players but helps them have careers as well as playing at the highest possible level * that competes with fully professional teams (most of the time, if not quite well enough) on two training sessions a week * that sustains the spirit of rugby in its playing ethos * that has cheap beer * that tries to put up with the conduct of other clubs that behave, shall we say, not always in the most gentlemanly of ways, without too much moaning.
I am not saying nobody else has any of those factors, but nobody else has all of them. So all the other things people moan about (loans, sugar daddies, teams v clubs) do not apply to Richmond, but we are the ones who are dropping out.
Like I say, to me, that says a lot about the way rugby is heading. |
There is absolutely no place for well run clubs at the top levels of English rugby.
Embrace being back in the National League where rugby is honest!
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:08
The crucial point in Breakdown’s post is the cheap beer!
Seriously though, it does seem to me that minimum standards are needed at Level 2 and Level 3. I know the Chair of NLR has strong views on this. Clubs should be more than one team, have a community presence and good facilities for both spectators and players.
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:15
So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it?
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Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:16
I have put this before, there used to be a set of minimum standards for all leagues which were sent out each year by the NCA and each club was inspected. This hasn’t happened for a lot of years and I don’t think there is such a document around but in saying that I think from memory most clubs in N1 & N2SE would now meet the standard that was set at that time.
------------- So many Christians not enough Lions
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 16:50
tigerburnie wrote:
So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it? |
Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative!
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 17:43
Halliford wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it? |
Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative! |
No doubt the PRL will say exactly the same thing about their rules.
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 17:43
It seems obvious the way things are going that clubs like Richmond will come into their own as others, who spend their money on transient players instead of their asset, implode.
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 19 May 2023 at 18:04
Neasham wrote:
It seems obvious the way things are going that clubs like Richmond will come into their own as others, who spend their money on transient players instead of their asset, implode. |
To a certain extent Richmond have the benefit of a 10 million + catchment area, many of whom have been to schools where rugby is played. Again, many will be in full time employment and play for pleasure not necessarily personal advancement; hence no need for a large player cost base. There is also a cachet playing for long established London clubs.
Cambridge played a pre-season match in September 1971 and received a hefty trouncing. I seem to remember being run through by Chris Ralston!
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 20 May 2023 at 13:42
tigerburnie wrote:
Halliford wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:
So a lot like the restrictions the PRL impose on Championship sides to maintain the cartel then? Nothing to do with who wins or loses, just if your face fits, rugby really does seem to be rotten to the core doesn't it? |
Absolutely nothing like the restrictions imposed by PRL on the Championship! Just trying to ensure that Clubs at semi-professional level provide the right facilities for players and spectators. Shame you can't see beyond the negative! |
No doubt the PRL will say exactly the same thing about their rules. |
Football applies minimum standards down to the very lowest levels of the pyramid. Do you think that sport is also nothing to do with who wins and loses but just if your face fits and so is rotten to the core?
Or could it just be you have massively overreacted?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 12:34
From what I was told yesterday at the Cambridge SGM.
No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work.
Championship fixtures are due out in mid-June, but we do not have a draft yet.
Everyone assumes we are going to a ten team Championship next season. So we expect two or three teams, to permit promotion, to be relegated. But there is no formal plan.
People are assuming that London Irish are toast, so no relegation from the premiership next season - unless a miracle happens, and they permit one of us to be promoted.
There is no certainty on funding for this year, let alone next.
Cambridge have made some signings, but are not going to start making announcements until our DoR is back from his vacation. Then we will do a phased release of information to build excitement.
Cambridge will run a 2nd XV in a new Herts Merit League, as well as the 3rds in Eastern Counties.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 15:16
How times change! One of my friends has shared an Esher programme from 2003/4 when we were in National 2 (now National 1). On 20th September Esher beat Cambridge 85-0 in the Powergen Cup. That's serious nostalgia!
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 15:21
Ten teams for the Prem 2(read Championship) is not until 24/25 season is it not?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 15:34
Yes, I am already thinking of 22/23 as last season, so 23/24 is this season.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 15:47
Halliford, in 2003/4 Cambridge were a London 2 North - level 6 club.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 16:02
Camquin wrote:
No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work. | As the Premiership Cup fixtures at pool stage are single legs rather than home and away it seems likely that all games between Premiership and Championship clubs will routinely be held at the home ground of the Premiership club which will be compliant with required standards. Premiership clubs may end up with 4 home fixtures and a single away game at another Premiership club whilst the opposite could be the case for Championship clubs.
------------- Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 16:22
Camquin wrote:
Halliford, in 2003/4 Cambridge were a London 2 North - level 6 club.
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I think my son played a few games for them around that time when based at a nearby barracks.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 25 May 2023 at 16:47
corporalcarrot wrote:
Camquin wrote:
No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work. | As the Premiership Cup fixtures at pool stage are single legs rather than home and away it seems likely that all games between Premiership and Championship clubs will routinely be held at the home ground of the Premiership club which will be compliant with required standards. Premiership clubs may end up with 4 home fixtures and a single away game at another Premiership club whilst the opposite could be the case for Championship clubs.
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Don't believe that assumption is correct CC... & wouldn't expect the same minimum criteria to be in place for Prem/Champ Cup as for Prem league fixtures.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 09:36
islander wrote:
corporalcarrot wrote:
Camquin wrote:
No championship club has seen the Premiership Cup fixtures, so we are all working from the same rumours and some basic knowledge of how a round-robin has to work. | As the Premiership Cup fixtures at pool stage are single legs rather than home and away it seems likely that all games between Premiership and Championship clubs will routinely be held at the home ground of the Premiership club which will be compliant with required standards. Premiership clubs may end up with 4 home fixtures and a single away game at another Premiership club whilst the opposite could be the case for Championship clubs.
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Don't believe that assumption is correct CC... & wouldn't expect the same minimum criteria to be in place for Prem/Champ Cup as for Prem league fixtures. |
Premiership sides playing all games against Championship sides at home would be totally unfair:-
1) no or little income for the Championship teams 2) lots of expenses for the Championship teams
In the spirit of fair competition the Premiership sides should play all games against the championship sides - however this causes a conundrum whereby it would be OK for Premiership teams to play at non-compliant Championship grounds in the Cup but not in the league
Sort that out RFU
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 10:50
Raider999 wrote:
Sort that out RFU |
Has there been confirmation that the new Cup will have a mix of both Championship and Premiership clubs in the initial pools?
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:20
Yes that has been confirmed- there is a seeding of sorts that was mentioned- I cannot find the article but will look when more time is available
------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Posted By: Mark Smith
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:46
I'm not aware of any suggestion that all the cup games would all be played at Prem grounds.
My understanding is Champ clubs would also have 'home' games.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 11:48
Mark Smith wrote:
I'm not aware of any suggestion that all the cup games would allbe played at Prem grounds.
My understanding is Champ clubs would also have 'home' games. |
Only a logical assumption as championship grounds do not conform to Premiership standards
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: Mark Smith
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 12:35
"Only a logical assumption as championship grounds do not conform to Premiership standards"
Prem Cup games have been played at out-grounds in previous seasons anyway - I believe Sarries have played a 'home' game at Bedford, for example.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 13:41
Classic off-season RM fayre... one poster lobs in a grenade, without evidence, such as 'no Champ teams will be at home to Prem oppo in Prem/Champ Cup'... & others line up to criticise that state of affairs, even tho' it's only speculation, and may well turn out to be wrong.
Given the various demonstrations of elasticity we have encountered from the game's governing bodies, having 2 sets of regulations/ minimum standards, 1 for the (top-flight) league and 1 for the (tiers 1/2) cup, doesn't seem especially implausible/outrageous...
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Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 26 May 2023 at 13:58
islander wrote:
Classic off-season RM fayre... one poster lobs in a grenade, without evidence, such as 'no Champ teams will be at home to Prem oppo in Prem/Champ Cup'... & others line up to criticise that state of affairs, even tho' it's only speculation, and may well turn out to be wrong.
Given the various demonstrations of elasticity we have encountered from the game's governing bodies, having 2 sets of regulations/ minimum standards, 1 for the (top-flight) league and 1 for the (tiers 1/2) cup, doesn't seem especially impausible/outrageous... | Well put mate. As I suspect I had some part in starting this particular hare running I accept the rebuke. You & Mark Smith are nearer the action & much better informed.
------------- Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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