24/25 Championship Cup
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Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=20367
Printed Date: 05 Nov 2024 at 16:28
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 24/25 Championship Cup
Posted By: FHLH
Subject: 24/25 Championship Cup
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 09:43
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As the topic is locked I'll post here. I understand that the top 4 Premiership clubs are to be excluded from the cup as they are too strong. It will also bring the number of teams down to 16 which makes 4 pools of 4 and allows the logic of the 2nd Round to be simpler. If I'm totally honest, I can't wait for Cambridge to get back to the National Leagues where the main topic of conversation is rugby rather than money and RFU incompetence. I don't believe that Cambridge got anything useful out of the 23/24 Cup other than a stack of costs. So I'm not upset at creating a hole in our fixture list - or am I? There's a saying that fruit filters well: "Banana off. Then keep bananaing off. Banana off until you come up to a gate with a sign saying." You Can’t Banana Off Past Here”. Climb over the gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep bananaing off forever." ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Replies:
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 11:13
It's an interesting idea excluding the top four clubs as they are too strong. Can you imagine Manchester City, Arsnal (can't include the e as it apparently makes a rude word!), Liverpool and Aston Villa being banned from the FA Cup because they are too strong? I'm with you entirely regarding Championship clubs winning "promotion" to the National League so they can get back to enjoying the game.
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FHLH wrote:Posted By: Dalesman
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 11:22
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Jon Newcombe in todays Rugby Paper says the Prem Cup will involve all Prem Teams and the Champ clubs except Chinnor and Cambridge ("bottom two, too weak"). So 20 clubs not 22 as last year. That should give 5 pools x 4 with the 2 Prem and 2 Champ clubs in each as said elsewhere. Better balance? But will Champ clubs get any share of the Prem home games? All to be confirmed at Champ AGM this Tuesday, apparently.
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 11:31
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Having faced the trauma of our first season, we have recruited. All this for just 11 Home games. Who'd be a Treasurer? ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 11:33
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My local club are in a league with chinnor 3s. Hope we're not playing them in these fallow weeks.
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Posted By: TAS63
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 12:58
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What a sh*t decision..... Unless someone tells me both clubs "wanted" this??? And waiting until now to make it. It's not like everyone didn't know months ago. More RFU not fit for purpose - putting it nicely
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 14:05
Quid pro quo for lowering MSC? If "too weak", then surely, "too strong" logic applies as well.  ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 15:14
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Chinnor's website confirms they and Cambridge are not in the cup. https://www.chinnor-rfc.com/news/chairmans-big-august-update-2864588.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.chinnor-rfc.com/news/chairmans-big-august-update-2864588.html
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Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 15:26
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It means a lot of blank weekends for both clubs, unless they keep playing each other ! |
Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 15:29
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God awful decision for two clubs who are being judged without any evidence. If they're both strong enough to be in the Champ. then they should play in the competition. Secretly happy that my club stayed in the National Leagues, at least I'll get to see rugby home and away most weeks. ------------- Enjoying life! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 16:26
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Hopefully Chinnor and Cambridge will go on to finish in the top half of the Championship to smear egg over everyone's faces. I don't know if we have the firepower to do that, but you never know. But, assuming Ritchie finds some friendlies to go along with the other friendlies that are laughably called a league, we will have some rugby with nothing riding on it. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: *Stalwart
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 18:04
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Unbelievable decision. What are these people on? ------------- *Stalwart |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 20:32
That’s a very impressive and comprehensive update for Chinnor supporters. Not sure why they need a CEO and COO though.
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2024 at 21:32
I would love an update like that for Ealing. I hear rumor and take a peek at the ground now and then, but there is nothing concrete release.
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Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 07:17
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I am staggered by this decision unless of course someone tells me that both Cambridge and Chinnor asked to be excluded from the Premiership Cup competition. Both clubs won promotion to the Championship and are now fully fledged Championship clubs. I think it is against any sense of fairness for these two clubs to be discriminated against in this shoddy and shocking manner. I hope that the other clubs in the Championship support them and refuse to ratify this injustice. I read Simon Vickers message and update to Chinnor's members and a few matters were reminiscent of Caldy's summer ahead of their first Championship campaign. Firstly the surprise that the supposed circa £150k to be provided by the RFU was a mirage as some £40k+ had to go straight back out to pay for insurance and another £60k had to be spent on medical facilities......taken together with the increased cost of travel etc doesn't leave much left to help fund all the ground improvements that Chinnor need to undertake. However, after reading Chinnor's update I did get the sense that perhaps the RFU were being of more assistance in guiding Chinnor's pre season readiness than they were when Caldy went through the process. In August 2022 and 48 hrs before their first preseason game against Premiership Sale Sharks, Caldy were informed that unless they built a ramp up to the changing room & medical room (so a stretcher could be more easily transported up the three steps into the facility) the game would need to be cancelled. Detailed plans, which due to the position and topography of walkways and standing areas, needed to be a far more complex and significant structure than 'a ramp' suggested were quickly drawn up and submitted to the RFU for approval.......my understanding was that no prompt response was received from the RFU but somehow Caldy managed the build and installation a few hours before the game kicked off and some 2,500 spectators saw an enthralling evening's entertainment. There was a contrast between the fulltime Sale Sharks side who arrived with their coaches, physios, analysts, nutritionists etc some 2 or 3 hours before the early evening mid week kick off and the Caldy squad that scrambled to leave work and navigate rush hour traffic to arrive shortly before the appointed hour. Therein lies the difference ! ------------- ''The future isn't what it used to be'' |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 11:37
| When Northampton Saints spent their season in the Championship their “support team” took one look at the Pirates’ away changing room and determined that their squad would instead get changed in their hotel before being bussed to the ground. |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 12:25
Mainly large gin & tonics I believe. Paid for by others naturally.
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 16:31
They clearly forgot what rugby is all about ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 17:10
Rugby has a fine tradition of visiting teams thinking your club/pitch/changing room isn't good enough.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 17:36
But it's still a common courtesy to use the facilities that the home club provide for you. It reminds me that in football a few years ago, when hazelnutnal played against non-league Sutton, many suggested they snub Surtons changing room and bus it in like Saints. Thankfully hazelnutnal Wenger was a man of honour and said no to that. I think the Premiership snobs are very quickly forgetting where they came from.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 17:57
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I must admit I was looking forward to Quins playing Nick Easter's Chinnor. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 18:41
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I wonder if the final will be played at the Allianz Stadium. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cd9dd2xyx2ko" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cd9dd2xyx2ko
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Posted By: SoulStew
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 20:01
| It is not allowed to play contracted players to play at that level!! |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2024 at 20:21
I hope so. Chinnor are a good bunch so hopefully nothing to worry about.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2024 at 21:55
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Mail from Cambridge Chair to members today suggests that the cup format is not final. I suspect there are two clubs voting against it. So I would not book travel you cannot cancel. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 08:33
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Chinnor confirmed their non-participation in the Prem Cup on social media yesterday... https://x.com/ChinnorRFCThame/status/1821108822938653012" rel="nofollow - https://x.com/ChinnorRFCThame/status/1821108822938653012
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 10:24
Perhaps the Prem/Champ clubs that do play could pay compensation to Cam/Chin for lost income - gate, bar, social, raffle etc  Exits stage left. ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Dalesman
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 10:49
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So it was supposedly all being finalised/approved at the Champ clubs AGM on Tuesday. Anyone know what happened?
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 12:30
You are Peter Kay and I claim my fiver!
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Posted By: Monkey Magic
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 12:39
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I think leaving out Chinnor and Cambridge is grossly unfair in both clubs. Would be interesting to see a bar on Loans or Dual Reg players introduced so a club can only field a full 23 of their own - not sure the two excluded clubs would proved to be the weakest with an even playing field. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 12:44
Quite. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 13:05
The pre-season circular two days ago from the Cambridge chairman said it was yet to be finalised. The Chinnor post on X says both clubs are out ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: SK 88
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 13:08
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I wonder what (if any) effort was made to find two more sides (e.g. Cardiff & Scarlets?) to round the competition out to 24 clubs? Presuming that was not possible, I'm a bit surprised they didn't get it all sorted in time for a preliminary round between last year's bottom 3 plus Chinnor so that at least everyone has the chance to qualify for it. the format at least is a proven winner, so it gives the competition the best chance of success and thriving in the longer term, which has to be the priority. Bad formats kill competitions, even good ones like Super Rugby & the European Cup get killed with rubbish formats.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 14:31
| The Champ clubs appear to have been quite tightly together in recent negotiations with RFU/PRC over promotion, minimum standards etc, so it would surprise me if 10 clubs had just turned round to the other 2, shrugged and said 'sorry chaps nothing we can do' without a real battle and insistence on compensation etc |
Posted By: Abbotsman
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 14:39
I hope they used their hotel to shower & change after the game too?
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Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 21:28
| I think one issue is the fact that there is only 10 Premiership clubs so the 20 team format works 5 pools of 4 playing home and away with 2 Premier clubs in each group with the Championship clubs getting 2 home games against Premiership sides. I am not sure how a 22 or 24 team competition would work splitting 10 Prem clubs across the bigger pools. |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 22:24
They managed to come up with a format for 22 teams last season, why not this. I realise the teams played 5 games last season (those which didn’t go bust) & there are 6 weekends allocated for pool games this time out, but could worked something out I’m sure - where there’s a will…
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Posted By: ChrisB
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2024 at 22:25
Drop 2 Prem clubs instead?  ------------- ChrisB |
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2024 at 09:26
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This may be a bit on the blind side. How much would it cost for Cambridge & Chinnor to play these games and how much do they get out of the pot, maybe they save money to not get thumped each week as happened to Cambridge last year ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2024 at 10:26
I would hope/expect Cambridge are a bit more competitive now. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2024 at 10:27
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Last season we had 2 pools of 6 and 2 Pools of five with the 2 pools of 5 playing a game against one of the teams in the other pool of 5. The issue of this structure was each club played 5 games playing each other once. Many championship clubs only played a premiership club at home whilst not expecting to win would have received a big gate. The way it was set up allowed Premiership clubs to retain all the income from home games which is very different to the Football clubs. If a level 5 club played Liverpool at Anfield they would get 20% of the gate not a bad little earner. When Caldy Played Leicester in front of 13k they got an engraved glass tankard and 7 hip flasks from the club shop. At least the format of 20 clubs will at least allow the championship clubs have two Premiership clubs at home.
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2024 at 11:32
Point taken, but then you could add another a few more Championship clubs with that argument. It's all about spreading 10 Premiership clubs very thinly. ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Bedford Bear
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 08:58
Strikes me of premiership arrogance regarding "Championship bottom two, too weak". It's hardly as if Newcastle Falcons were too strong last season |
Posted By: Bluesman11
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 09:08
I’m not defending the decision, but I don’t think anywhere in that article it said they were excluded because they were “too weak”. It was a logistical decision that a 20 team competition was easier to run and therefore they were the clubs to miss out based on last season’s league positions. The decision to only have 20 clubs rather than all 22 is ludicrous, but if you accept it had to be 20 then I don’t think there was any other option of selecting the 2 clubs to miss out. ------------- Championship Prediction League Winner 11/12 |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 10:03
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Does it not mean the 2 clubs can run the season with fewer players? They won't rest and rotate as they have breaks in their seasons? Or is the assumption they'll go for friendlies in these breaks? The welsh equivalent teams aren't playing so it shouldn't be impossible.
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Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 13:13
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Not saying this is right or wrong. Usually you know the criteria of cup competition before you compete. They have therefore said the top 10 qualify for the Cup competition. In a normal season Cambridge should have been relegated but were given a free pass from relegation, so are already benefitting. I saw pre-season Cambridge were aiming for mid-table at around 6th last year. If I were a Cambridge or Chinnor supporter, I wouldn’t be happy, but also they now both have an advantage of staying up, with less injuries and recovery time. Or are we going to 14 anyway next season, so it won’t matter as all are guaranteed of staying up?
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 13:16
No one has yet reminded me of the purpose / relevance of this cup. If to provide fixtures for a smaller Premiership then expand the Premiership. MSC were always a means to an end to ring fence ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 13:27
| Just read the cup will go down to 16 clubs next season (25-26). |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 10:35
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Do Blues folk know who they are lumped in with yet? With three 'southern' groups including Pirates, Ex, Bris, Bath, Glaws, Pury, LS, Ampthill, Bedford, Sarries, Quins, Ealing, it doesn't appear immediately obvious. Mind you, it would've been even more confusing with Chinnor in the mix, and as for Cambridge, in witht he Midland group of Saints, Tigers, Nottm , and Cov. It leaves the only self-selecting group as the North with Caldy, Donny, Sale and Falcons. What a Rhubarb's muddle. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 14:45
We haven’t been told who we are with yet. Last season in terms of Premiership clubs we had Sale & Newcastle away and Leicester home. A bit of a guess would be and you could swap Gloucester or Bath with Bristol. Exeter, Bristol, Pirates, Hartpury Gloucester, Bath, Ampthill, Blues Ealing, Quins, Saracens, Scottish Newcastle, Sale, Donny, Caldy Saints, Tigers, Cov, Nottingham |
Posted By: SK 88
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 15:36
And everyone on here complained that the Championship clubs didn't get enough home games.
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 21:45
Is this a Bedford board now?
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Posted By: Bluesman11
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 09:16
What a strange response ------------- Championship Prediction League Winner 11/12 |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 10:07
| Interesting comments in Rugby Paper about possible format of cup in 25/26, a 16 team competition with 10 Prem and top 6 "Prem 2" with Prem 2 possibly going up to 14 this will leave 8 clubs without any cup competition and high holes in their fixture list. Suggested options are an Anglo Welsh cup, tried before and failed for lack of funding, or an 8 team cup 2 pools of 4 with top 2 in each league playing off, for what? no money and just more pointless games to add to the 26 they will have in the league. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 10:23
Well, no. I'm Cov. You're Cornish. Kinda answers itself. Odd indeed. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 11:01
Everyone? I don't think so. Many haven't commented either way.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 13:45
I did - but you're right. Far from everybody. I'm happy that we have an extra side in the league now (even if that extra side - and another one too - is being treated as second-class) and extra guaranteed home cup games agin Prem opposition, and potentially more. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 13:52
| Pool draw to be confirmed tomorrow morning at 0830, it's been flagged on social media... |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 16:38
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I am told that the 25th is the formal deadline. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 18:49
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Not that bothered. It is sad that the other code has a cup competition with a long pedigree.Yet it feels since our ‘betters’ decided Europe (France) was a better option, we seem to lack a proper ‘cup’. Do not get me on the Cambridge/Chinnor farce. How sad for Chinnor to discover that the second tier league is organised as a third rate competition. ------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 19:03
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The 'owd tin cup is older than anything Rugby League organises. The first three winners all joined the Northern Union. Bradford now play Soccer. Thornes is apparently defunct. The first extant union club to win was Otley. In its early days, it drew larger crowds than the FA Cup. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 21:13
formal deadline for what?!
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Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2024 at 23:09
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.
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Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 08:27
| Bedford Blues have been drawn alongside Ampthill, Bath and Bristol Bears in Pool 4 of the revamped 2024/25 Premiership Rugby Cup. |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 08:41
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Doncaster have Sale, Newcastle and Caldy ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: Bombay Duck
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 08:56
| Pirates have Exeter, Gloucester and Hartpury |
Posted By: maire23
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 10:04
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Nottingham have Tigers, Northampton and Coventry. Incredibly excited!!!
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 10:33
This will be the first time visiting Kingsholm for us. A big day out.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 11:15
| And finally, a London pool with Quins, Sarries, Ealing & Scottish... |
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 11:28
| I like these pools. Fingers crossed that they support some nice gates for the clubs involved. Hope Bath enjoy their trip to Ampthill. |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 11:56
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Statement from Cambridge Chairman With today’s announcement of this season’s Premiership Cup competition’s groups and fixtures, the RFU have outlined the reasons for the non-invitation and participation of both Cambridge Rugby and Chinnor RFC. An RFU Spokesperson said: “The RFU, Premiership Rugby and Championship Executive worked together on the format for the Premiership Cup for the 2024-25 season. It was agreed that a 20-team competition provided the optimum competition format as the competition evolves this coming season, with discussions on future formats and qualification processes already happening. Last season’s format with 22 teams was felt by the clubs to take place over too many weekends and the bottom two teams did not play any home games against Premiership sides.” Cambridge Rugby chairman Tim Hague had this to say: “We are hugely looking forward to our next Championship season, despite the disappointment over exclusion from the Premiership Rugby Cup. In the face of direct funding cuts from the RFU, PRL have insisted that the Cup competition comprises 10 sides from the Premiership and 10 from the Championship, so two sides have to miss out. This was decided on a ‘seeding’ basis – with ourselves and Chinnor losing out on two home Premiership fixtures and another against a Championship side. “Whilst this is logical, it’s not really ‘fair’. As such we have asked for significant compensation to offset substantial income loss from both missing out on bumper Premiership fixtures and the consequent loss of home gates and hospitality income. The other issue is a 7-weekend hole in our fixture list, which means a lack of continuity and momentum. We are, therefore, working hard on securing fixtures for these dates, and have many irons in the fire. We’ll confirm these soon – and there are some very attractive options. We move on, and we have contingency plans, as this has been a possibility for a while”. ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 13:23
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BBC Championship clubs' exclusion from cup 'appalling'
Two Championship clubs have said it is "appalling" and "unfair" that they have been excluded from this season's Premiership Rugby Cup. The competition has been rejigged for the 2024-25 season with only 10 of the 12 second-tier sides competing against the 10 Premiership clubs. Cambridge and newly-promoted Chinnor both miss out. All Championship clubs were involved in the competition last season, marking the first time in 18 years that Premiership sides faced lower-tier teams in a cup. "It’s not great to be honest to have the rug pulled out from under you," Chinnor director of rugby Nick Easter told BBC Radio Oxford. A spokesperson for the Rugby Football Union (RFU) told BBC Sport that the format for the Premiership Cup had been agreed by all parties. The pool stages of this season's competition will have five regional groups of four clubs competing against each other home and away across six rounds. The first three rounds, starting on the first weekend of November, take place during the Autumn internationals window, with the final three group matches taking place in February during the Six Nations. The five pool winners and the three best second-placed sides will qualify for the knock-out stages in early March, before the final on the weekend of 15 March. Chinnor, who are based in Thame, Oxfordshire, won promotion last season from National One to the Championship for the first time in their history. "[The cup] was something we were looking forward to last season, we’re very disappointed. I’d say it’s a pretty appalling decision," former England international and Harlequins forward Easter said. "The big issue from my side is trying to arrange games with some big gaps we’ll have from not competing in the competition. We have a period of five and seven weeks where we won't have any games." An RFU spokesperson said: "The RFU, Premiership Rugby and Championship Executive worked together on the format for the Premiership Cup for the 2024-25 season. "It was agreed that a 20-team competition provided the optimum competition format as the competition evolves, with on-going discussions on future formats and qualification processes already happening. "Last season’s format with 22 teams was felt by the clubs to take place over too many weekends and the bottom two teams did not play against Premiership sides." Gloucester won last season's competition, with Championship side Ealing Trailfinders reaching the semi-finals where they were beaten by Leicester Tigers. ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 13:44
| Who are the Championship Executive who agreed to this format. |
Posted By: John Butler42
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 14:24
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Cambridge have said they are working on fixtures to fill both voids. First point. Yes it has been said many times, but the basics behind leaving out Cambridge & Chinnor are nothing short of disgraceful. Next point, one can only wish them both good fortune in finding alternatives. I cannot fathom where the fixtures might come from. All of Wales & Scotland are surely already committed. Good luck & fortune to both, sincerely meant & intended. ------------- John Butler |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 15:22
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The Super Rygbi Cymru and URC teams have similar gaps in their fixtures to Chinnor and Cambridge. Hopefully a few meaningful friendlies can be put together.
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Posted By: *Stalwart
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 15:28
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Very pleased with Pirates group. As Cheshire says, really looking forward to our visit to Kingsholm. Still think it's a disgrace that Chinnor and Cambridge have been sidelined. ------------- *Stalwart |
Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 16:17
I did post much earlier and thought better of it but I feel I must agree with you, John Butler and others regarding the Chinnor and Cambridge situation. I can’t believe that the other clubs in the Championship would agree to this. Both clubs have worked very hard to get to this level, and the only way to deal with this is complete solidarity by ALL the clubs in the division. It must be a deal for all or none at all. Most clubs thrive on home games & bar takings to keep going. Yet again clubs seem to have been pacified by the offering of a meaningless cup competition, particularly one which excludes clubs in the same league from being involved in, which for me renders the competition meaningless. Why has this been allowed to happen? It begs the question, why clubs would actually want to be involved in such a shambles? National 1 and the 3 National 2 divisions are the only places to watch credible rugby within a proper structured season, and maybe the Championship clubs should consider getting involved with that instead of trying to jump through hoops to get to a Premiership that is a closed shop in all but name, and which, in my view should have been cut adrift long ago.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 16:41
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It is notable that the RFU Statement uses the passive voice, so it never actually says who agreed to what. "Last season’s format with 22 teams was felt by the clubs to take place over too many weekends" - this season's lasts two weeks longer. The phrase "bottom two teams did not play against Premiership sides." seems odd, as I am sure I was at matches at Northampton and Bristol. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 17:20
I mentioned this last week only to be shot down in flames. The fact is that you cannot reach the top without an almost bottomless pit of cash. As a former Treasurer and keen rugby player and supporter with some 60 years experience I can confirm once more that no Committee in their right mind would put their club through the wringer for Premiership rugby. For starters, how many grounds, in reality, in Levels 2-4 could house either 5,000 or 10,000 spectators. For example, Bedford might develop to 10,000 but where do you park (nothing personal) I don't know many grounds but know many who could not. I'll start with DMP - but what is the parking and what secondary income opportunities are there to support a Premiership squad à la Exeter? Ground sharing was once mooted but seems to have fizzled out due to pitch damage. Be honest! ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 17:25
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I seem to recall that had Bedford got planning permission to turn the ground and build in the corners, part of the plan was a car park under the pitch. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Nat1
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 19:18
Completely agree with you Rothman, well said. Given how united the Champ clubs/executive seemed to be regarding Prem 2 and MSC etc over the last couple of seasons, it's surprising to see how quickly they have left Cambridge and Chinnor in the dust when the prospect of hosting some of the big boys was dangled in front of them. Its hypocritical and these double standards leave a sour taste in the mouth, the Champ clubs should take a long hard look at themselves. Maybe this is another example of where 'Community Rugby' and equality in rugby actually stops in National 1, and above this it then becomes this murky hodgepodge world of semi pro and fully pro outfits that are businesses, not clubs. You're either part of a league in which all clubs takes part in a cup competition with another league, or you're not. This is more like a case of 'we're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others' and it stinks. It looks to me as if those 10 Championship clubs have basically said 'We're alright Jack', and that that is all that matters. A real mess. |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 19:35
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“Looks like it” is the operative term. Not sure any of us on here were privy to the ‘discussion’ so we can slate the 10 but we don’t know….. I am not happy we couldn’t find a solution to include all 12, but I do wonder what the real case for 10/10 was and the why. What I can say is I hate the way the fixtures have been allocated all season and would much rather have the Nat 1 arrangement for games ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 21:05
| I doubt the Championship clubs had much say at all in the way this latest Cup iteration was put together. |
Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 21:59
FHLH - sorry have only just seen this. 100% correct. I was more involved when Roth had two seasons in the Prem. That was 20+ years ago and nothing has changed. Every obstacle possible is put in the way of a prospective new entrant into the Prem, apart from the Sarries situation which clearly demonstrates the problem other teams face. Was it a 10 or 11 game season? The final straw as far as top flight Rugby is concerned, is the (in my opinion) awful decision to give exclusivity to the product to another minority channel, when it is clear that it should be shown on a terrestrial channel. At least there were some games on it last season. |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 06:47
Awaiting:
Not holding my breath on either front. Hope Cambridge & Chinnor can fill their fixture lists adequately. I guess, among other possibilities, they may choose to have an extra home game against each other. They could put up a wooden spoon as a prize for the winner of the 'series' between each other across the whole season, perhaps in conjunction with the charity of the same name, as an ironic gesture that sticks up two fingers to Prem Rugby.
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Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 09:37
| This will only get worse if the plan for 25/26 is for a 16 team cup competition with 10 Prem and 6 Prem 2 / Championship teams . The "Bottom 8 will either have a mini cup or combine with Welsh / Scottish clubs, which has been tried before and failed due to lack of interest/ financial sponsorship or simply travel issues and costs. |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 09:54
 I took a look at our fixtures when booking for this weekend's friendly. To see months go by with no rugby (and worse no home matches) brought home to me what a waste of space Championship rugby has become for us. Let's hope our compensation bid is successful - somewhere north of £200,000 seems correct.
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: maire23
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 10:10
| To be honest while I am excited about Nottingham’s fixtures, we came extremely close to not being included ourselves so I have huge sympathy with Chinnor and Cambridge. Truly unfair. |
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 11:03
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I might have a slightly nuanced view here. Deciding at virtually no notice to leave out Chinnor and Cambridge, and leave them with no fixtures for months is very poor. However, if this would have been agreed last year, and teams knew that there were consequences to finishing last (even with no relegation), then I would have been largely okay with it; I like the idea of some jeopardy. By the same token, I'd argue that the move to inviting a more limited set of teams to the Prem cup next year could be acceptable (though I'd prefer not) if the format is agreed with time for clubs to play their seasons with that goal in mind.
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Posted By: *Stalwart
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 13:48
I can't see how Chinnor and Cambridge will cope financially unless they are adequately compensated (which I doubt will happen). Surely it wasn't beyond the people who run the game to find a format where all Championship clubs could be involved. Regarding next season, if only the top six are involved in the existing cup then another competition for the rest must be organised. Otherwise there will be weeks on end with no fixtures and more clubs will find it impossible to survive. ------------- *Stalwart |
Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 14:20
£200k seems high to me, especially if the clubs find replacement fixtures. I know Blues would say a 5,000 sell out was worth about £100k when in the playoff final v Newcastle Falcons with hospitality all sold out which was probably about 350+ people and various sponsorships. Not sure if back then we got TV money or not from Sky. Travel costs will also be saved amongst other things. Assuming we have relegation this year, both may benefit from less injuries as other battling relegation suffer them. I wonder if it says anything about participation in the competition rules. Were the season tickets for Cambridge and Chinnor sold with the cup games? It is going to be very disjointed for the clubs.
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Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 15:39
| I wonder if the Champ clubs get any TV money from this? |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 18:11
You may be right but we can but hope 😎 The main pull would have been a Premiership home fixture. ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Abbotsman
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 18:28
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QUOTE... National 1 and the 3 National 2 divisions are the only places to watch credible rugby within a proper structured season, 100% correct IMO.
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Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 19:27
Yes and 2 of them and you may have been paired with Blues in bigger groups, which would help further.
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 21:38
agree that advance planning would have made this fairer regarding the bottom-placed team. but unfair to have penalised chinnor for finishing even lower down the ladder even tho' they were top of N1, i guess they could have played off against the next-lowest Champ team - Caldy in this case - but that becomes pretty complicated...
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Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2024 at 23:47
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It is ironic that Quins and Scottish are in the same pool. I only say this because I remember last season there was some good natured banter about the number of Quins in the LS squad
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2024 at 07:03
Yes there was the "banter" using the term McQuins, but the same banter never extended to other clubs who had (imo) excessive numbers of DR/loan players.
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2024 at 09:15
| Define “excessive “? |
Posted By: *Stalwart
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2024 at 10:09
It's not just National Leagues though - we have season tickets for Pirates Amateurs (£40 for the season this year) and it's a good standard of rugby played by a team almost exclusively composed of local boys who have come through the Penzance and Newlyn RFC minis, juniors and Colts. Plenty of local derbies too. Proper grass roots rugby. ------------- *Stalwart |