Rugby codes reuniting
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Topic: Rugby codes reuniting
Posted By: Greg
Subject: Rugby codes reuniting
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 17:58
Is this worthy of discussion? The talent pool for rugby players is diluted because of having two codes.We know that the 'Union' game is in a parlous state in many countries (Britain and Australia for certain). I can't comment on the health of the 'League' code because I have no personal experience of it. Would it really be so dramatic to consider and discuss bringing the game back under one code? Clearly there would be hearty discussions about what form the 'new' code would look like:- - 13 or 15 players; - contested or uncontested tackles; - line outs and scrummaging - points awarded What are the other significant differences between the two codes? Will it ever happen?
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Replies:
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 18:40
The amateur level Rugby league code has been on a steep decline for years and clubs have stopped putting out open age teams and leagues have shrunk.
At that level there is a lot of interchange of players between the two codes, made easier by the different seasons of each.
At the Semi pro level most clubs survive hand to mouth and suffer the same issues as their Union counterparts.
At the top Superleague level the game is facing the IMG plan to try and revitalise it.
At international level I'm afraid it is a farce.
All this just to say it won't happen and uniting two codes with their own financial issues won't solve anything.
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards
Remember Wakefield RFC
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Posted By: IonMan
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 11:54
When you here the comments by many rugby league supporters when their academy matches are played at Hull Ionians you realise how different the codes are. Though if the crowds that go to Hull FC and Hull KR came to the Hull Ionians Rugby Union games we would be very happy, but overloaded!
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Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 17:17
As a fan of both codes, I'd say "not a chance".
One day you might see a "hybrid" game, which will be played exclusively for the telly and watched only by the curious, a bit like those Wigan Bath cross code games some years back.
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Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 20:20
Those weren't hybrid games, they were games where an RU team tried to play RL and the reverse. As expected, the RL team won the RL game and the RU team won the RU game, though Wigan probably put up a better fight in the RU game than Bath did in the RL game. However we must remember that at that time RL had been professional for many years and RU was just starting on that journey.
Not long after that, (1996) Wigan RLFC were invited to the Middlesex Sevens and won the competition. And Bradford Bulls (who I still prefer to think of as Bradford Northern) won it in 2002.
------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 20:23
I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 20:40
Camquin wrote:
I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
| Not as I recall it. Understandably Wigan struggled with fully contested scrums, and maybe Bath didn't put their full effort into it. But back then even RL scrums were more of a competitive affair than nowadays, with the hookers actually striking for the ball. It's really only in the last twenty years or so that RL scrums have become the farce that they are now.
------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 12:44
I remember Bath just about beating Wigan at RU. Wigan had to use a coach as a lock as they did not have forwards big enough. When they ran the ball, Bath struggled..
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Posted By: Count Ford
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 14:06
I can't see it ever happening and while I enjoy both codes, I suspect a lot more Rugby League fans would turn to watching football before Rugby Union or some hybrid version
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 14:44
Those with partial/total lack of recall about the Bath/Wigan games in '96 can fill in the gaps via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_the_Codes_%28rugby%29" rel="nofollow - this Wikipedia page should they wish...
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Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 16:03
Halliford wrote:
I remember Bath just about beating Wigan at RU. Wigan had to use a coach as a lock as they did not have forwards big enough. When they ran the ball, Bath struggled.. |
I was at that game, at Twickenham. Craig Murdock, the Wigan scrum half, ran quite the length to score a cracking try.
Graeme West, the Wigan coach, played in the 2nd row, which is where he played as an RU player in his day.
The Wigan back row had Scott Quinnell at No 8, with Va'aiga Tuigamala as one of the flankers, Shem Tatupu the other, an all ex-RU back row.
The referee was from Leeds.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 16:11
Didn't Andy Farrell play for Wigan? What is he doing now? :-)
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2024 at 17:29
Camquin wrote:
Didn't Andy Farrell play for Wigan? What is he doing now? :-)
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Captained the side that day and partnered West in the second row.
No idea what he's doing these days. ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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Posted By: SK 88
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 14:38
CJB1 wrote:
Camquin wrote:
I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
| Not as I recall it. Understandably Wigan struggled with fully contested scrums, and maybe Bath didn't put their full effort into it. But back then even RL scrums were more of a competitive affair than nowadays, with the hookers actually striking for the ball. It's really only in the last twenty years or so that RL scrums have become the farce that they are now. |
It's on youtube. The scrums were contested to begin with but Bath stopped about 20 minutes into the game from memory.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 21:30
SK 88 wrote:
CJB1 wrote:
Camquin wrote:
I seem to recall it was RU with uncontested scrums.
| Not as I recall it. Understandably Wigan struggled with fully contested scrums, and maybe Bath didn't put their full effort into it. But back then even RL scrums were more of a competitive affair than nowadays, with the hookers actually striking for the ball. It's really only in the last twenty years or so that RL scrums have become the farce that they are now. |
It's on youtube. The scrums were contested to begin with but Bath stopped about 20 minutes into the game from memory. |
Watched both games, bit of a novelty factor - what it did show was there is a huge difference between top level RU and top level RL.
I joining at the lower levels might work but not anywhere near the top.
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 23:21
I think there was a lot of difference.
But that was at the dawn of professionalism. John Hall had only just bought Rob Andrew from Wasps and to build Newcastle.
Before rugby league coaches came to union and brought not only their defence skills, but also the strength and conditioning.
In fact, I suspect these games did a lot to put up the price of those coaches.
I am not sure there would be that difference today.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: SK 88
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 10:27
Sale played St Helens about 10 years ago (maybe more like 15) years ago, I've a feeling that was closer.
Personally I think a united game would be a great thing on many levels off the field, it's just whether their could be a bridging of the egos involved to make it happen. There would need to be delicate public relations to make sure it was genuinely presented as a merger not an acquisition.
On the field I struggle a bit more as I like the mixed tempo, tactical kicking & scrums in union; while the continuous play, and tighter focus on the core skills, seems to be a key appeal to many league fans.
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Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 13:48
It's a funny thing to note that each set of fans tend not to watch the other code as they both think that the other game too "stop-start".
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Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 14:21
I used to watch rugby league but find there is so much union on telly nowadays that I'm not missing it.
For me they were noticeably different.
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Posted By: Greg
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 16:29
And, meanwhile, American Football gets more coverage each year and a growing interest at junior age groups. Tragic.
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Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 17:03
Greg wrote:
And, meanwhile, American Football gets more coverage each year and a growing interest at junior age groups. Tragic. |
There's a game that is stop start I cannot watch unless highlights.
------------- Cauliflower ear.
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Posted By: sedgley dave
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 21:23
Perhaps people down south have no idea of the passion with which diehard RL fans hate Union.
Players of each code like and respect the other, and have no problem (except technically) in switching. As a little kid, I supported Bradford Northern, as they were then; I lived near Odsal Stadium. But I got into Bradford GS and played Union from 11 onwards. I have never played RL in my life, or even watched an amateur game.
Nowadays (70 years on!), I find League sterile and boring, mostly, but I think it is a hugely enjoyable game for youngsters, still. Lots of stuff on YouTube, which I started to watch during Covid lockdown.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 22:31
Most Cumbrian villages have two rugby clubs, inevitably at opposite ends of the village.
You could call it a religious divide, but it is more serious than that.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est
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Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 23:55
Still expect Sweeney to announce three or four teams in the Prem 2 will have Northern sounding names, like Wigan, St Helens, Leeds…
------------- The older I get, the more the RFU leave me confused.
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Posted By: sedgley dave
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2024 at 00:46
Northern sounding names. How about Scagglethorpe?
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Posted By: ParkBench
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2024 at 14:12
Greg wrote:
And, meanwhile, American Football gets more coverage each year and a growing interest at junior age groups. Tragic. |
And with Flag Football* being incorporated into the LA Olympics in 2028 it's going to gain even more interest and possibly even central funding.
* essentially NFL Tag
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 09:29
sedgley dave wrote:
Perhaps people down south have no idea of the passion with which diehard RL fans hate Union.
Players of each code like and respect the other, and have no problem (except technically) in switching. As a little kid, I supported Bradford Northern, as they were then; I lived near Odsal Stadium. But I got into Bradford GS and played Union from 11 onwards. I have never played RL in my life, or even watched an amateur game.
Nowadays (70 years on!), I find League sterile and boring, mostly, but I think it is a hugely enjoyable game for youngsters, still. Lots of stuff on YouTube, which I started to watch during Covid lockdown. |
I'll go to the Challenge Cup final for a day out, proudly wearing my British Lions shirt but I have to agree. League is just so much more dull and predictable. Every game is always "5 tackles, kick and pray then repeat". It is just a slightly faster version of american football.
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Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 10:11
I have been to two RL world cup finals at Old Trafford, on both occations I was struggling to stay engaged just after half time in fact one of our party left halfway through the second half. It was a good day out , but the main event was underwhelming. But each to their own and may be I could'nt see the technicalities of the game.
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Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 11:47
My daughter lives in Australia and so every year when I’m over I watch a lot of NRL It’s good to watch,plenty of off loads and passing along the line. Here it’s smash it up the middle as far as you can for 5 phases and of course the usual kick on the 6
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Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 12:12
Sounds like you're adopting a few Aussie opinions there.
There's some very good rugby league going on here.
NRL is franchises, isn't it? No promotion or relegation?
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 13:06
Paul10 wrote:
Sounds like you're adopting a few Aussie opinions there.
There's some very good rugby league going on here.
NRL is franchises, isn't it? No promotion or relegation? |
Clubs not franchises, but no relegation - a new club is added very occasionally
------------- RAID ON
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Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 13:10
Posted By: Greg
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 14:25
Following the recent departures of Union 'superstars', Barry John, JPR, David Duckham, Phil Bennett et al, I can't help feeling that the rugby played in their heyday (i.e 1979-80) was infinitely better to watch. These were 'normal' guys with unnatural skills. They weighed and looked like 'normal' guys and their game was built around speed, guile, and a sense of space. I do get a little tired of the crash ball tactics and the attention on big hits. Big men ploughing into big men (concussion anybody?). Where are the dummies, the sidesteps, the sway of the hips, the swagger of passing into space and knowing that a team-mate would be in the right place to run onto the ball. Can I lend anyone my rose-tinted specs?
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Posted By: Greg
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2024 at 18:26
An interesting chat between two Aussies on the state of Rugby Union in their country. Is Rugby Union Officially Dead In Australia? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSuRW-3pyjw" rel="nofollow -
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Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2024 at 07:17
Rugby Union would be a far better watch with only 13 players.
..or would it?
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Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2024 at 11:18
backrowb wrote:
Rugby Union would be a far better watch with only 13 players.
..or would it? |
As someone who watches a lot of both codes, and despite being a dyed in the wool Mose fan would probably say I overall prefer RL (don't say that out loud very often), my big fear is that the inexorable logic of reunited codes, certainly in England, is rugby league on the pitch, run by the RFU.
Which makes both the union and league sides of me feel a bit sick.
------------- keep the faith
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2024 at 11:25
Greg wrote:
Following the recent departures of Union 'superstars', Barry John, JPR, David Duckham, Phil Bennett et al, I can't help feeling that the rugby played in their heyday (i.e 1979-80) was infinitely better to watch. These were 'normal' guys with unnatural skills. They weighed and looked like 'normal' guys and their game was built around speed, guile, and a sense of space. I do get a little tired of the crash ball tactics and the attention on big hits. Big men ploughing into big men (concussion anybody?). Where are the dummies, the sidesteps, the sway of the hips, the swagger of passing into space and knowing that a team-mate would be in the right place to run onto the ball. Can I lend anyone my rose-tinted specs?
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I don't think you are alone Greg. That's why I prefer watching NL rugby to that of the Premiership. Less "gym monkeys" and less reliance on the so-called "big hits" (since when was a "hit" part of rugby union?). Mind you there are a few big lumps in NL of course but then again there are more big lumps in the general population now than there was in the "good old days".
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