Ealing pitch
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Topic: Ealing pitch
Posted By: The Blues
Subject: Ealing pitch
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 09:08
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The Blues top try scorer had to leave before half time due to the Ealing pitch injuring him, wouldn’t have made a difference to the result but still his leg doesn’t look good. http://twitter.com/deanoadamson/status/1119864564143796225?s=21" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/deanoadamson/status/1119864564143796225?s=21 |
Replies:
Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 09:53
| Pirates fullback Kyle Moyle also sustained a serious knee injury at Ealing - but can it be definitively said the pitch is to blame? |
Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 10:18
| I saw that too, looks pretty nasty. I suspect the very hot weather on Sat was a significant contributor. |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 10:36
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In two matches played on artificial surfaces this season we lost seven players to injury, two of which made no further contribution to the season. Personally, I believe the only positive that has come out of the RFU's ridiculousy harsh funding revisions for clubs at level 2 and below is the cut in funding for further artificial surface pitches. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: RobC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 11:07
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I may be wrong but I seem to remember reading that the RFU funded 3G pitches were not the greatest quality. There doesn't, however, seem to be any complaints about the pitches at Saracens and Newcastle. If Cov go down the artificial route I hope due research is carried out as to the best playing surface. |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 11:20
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To be fair any money spent on the playing surface at Coventry will be welcome. It is sadly by far the worst in the Championship. |
Posted By: RobC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 11:33
Yes, we've had that pointed out several times already. Hopefully things will be improved for next season. |
marigold wrote:Posted By: EverOptimistic
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 14:56
There are very many complaints about the Saracens, Newcastle and Worcester pitches, with photos similar to the above. Some players refuse to play on them.
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Posted By: Eel
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 15:26
------------- If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room |
Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 15:58
How else did it happen... a boot from a player, shaving his legs whilst on the pitch? Adamson said it on his twitter account and had to leave the pitch before half time. Not sure it is something he would voluntarily do, when he is in a battle against Hutler for the league top try scorer.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 16:21
| I've noticed from my team playing on 3 separate 4G pitches there seems to be proportionately more stoppages and injuries on 4G than with grass. Plus more players complained about calf pains afterwards. Honestly, I think they are not a good idea. |
Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 16:55
| Ok for training on |
Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 17:02
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I would like to hear more from players. Saracens Cardiff to name a couple do not seem to have complaints. Do you have to get the better class of 4G pitch and pay more to get less injuries. |
Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 17:15
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There is no such thing as 4G Official classification is 3G. Anything else is just marketing BS |
Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 17:25
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a little bit of advertising but a useful article on 3g 4g etc https://www.mylocalpitch.com/blog/2g-3g-4g-know-playing-surface
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Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 17:48
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I think from reading that article JonDee there is a 4g pitch although not officially accredited It hasn't got rubber crumbling so maybe that is what causes injuries. |
Posted By: EverOptimistic
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 18:18
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Text from 2018 article in Irish Times - interesting " ailIn August, Munster’s new 4G pitch surface at
Musgrave Park was laid, the conversion from natural grass to plastic complete
and ready for the visits of London Irish and Exeter Chiefs for two pre-season
friendly matches.Munster followed trends at Glasgow Warriors and
Cardiff Blues, who both play home games on the synthetic surface, while
Leinster have played competitively on their plastic in Donnybrook.
Munster’s first match on the surface arrived two
months after Scarlets backrow John Barclay ruptured an Achilles’ tendon at
Scotstoun, and fullback Johnny McNicholl called for artificial pitches to be
outlawed. The following day Wasps flanker Jack Willis, who had just been called
into the England squad, ruptured ligaments in his right knee on Saracens’
artificial pitch. The Premiership now has three clubs who use the
artificial surface, Saracens, Newcastle and Worcester. Gloucester intended
joining them this season, but after taking advice from their players, the club
is spending on a surface that will be a hybrid of grass and artificial grass
fibres. The injuries may be perceived to be part of the game of rugby, tough luck and coincidental. But the most recent Premiership study bears out the belief that plastic pitches are more dangerous and cause more injuries than grass. It also begs the question why, from a player-welfare perspective, are they becoming more rather than less common. Synthetic pitches The RFU crunched the numbers on grass and synthetic
pitches in Premiership rugby, and came up with a report after the 2016-17
season. It said that for that season 608 injuries were
recorded on grass, 170 on artificial surfaces. With just three pitches the
exposure to plastic was less, but returned injury rates of 129.1 per 1,000
hours compared to the grass rate of 89.6 per 1,000 hours, the total hours representing
25 matches. The average severity for match injuries on grass was 32 days,
compared with 37 days for artificial turf. As stated in the official report: “The overall
burden of injuries on natural grass was 2,481 per 1,000 days compared with
4,740 per 1,000 days on artificial turf, a staggering difference.” Also article about Sarries pitch (in a dubious paper, but relevant to the discussion IMO |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 19:11
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< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> That is a nasty friction burn !. Not sure he needed to stop playing but that is his choice. I have never seen or heard of an Ealing player ever coming off because of a severe graze. This isover 4 years on the 3G pitch. Grass pitches this time of the year go like concrete and the same injuries occur , especially on the sevens circuits.
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: Westcoaster
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 22:28
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I don't know enough about artificial pitches to comment but my son plays a senior level of hockey, where artificial pitches have been the norm for many years. He often gets a nasty graze from a tumble but says that it is the older sand based pitches which are an issue. Falling on a sandy, gritty surface is never going to be fun. The best hockey surfaces seem to be water based , e.g. London 2012 and since, and I don't think the falls are as bad. Makes me wonder whether top sports e.g. professional rugby and hockey ever compare notes ....? ------------- Come on Jersey........ |
Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 23:12
A water soaked artificial pitch clearly benefits hockey, providing a slick, fast and consistent surface in a sport where heavy falls are a rarity. These conditions would be good for rugby were it not for the elephant in the room - playing with a permanently wet ball. ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: High Heidjin
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 06:12
I wonder if Hartpury College has any plans to deal with their playing surface ? The state of the pitch last Saturday made Cov’s pitch look like a billiard table and I don’t use that comparison lightly. ------------- The Inner Game Will Win Every Time |
Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 08:25
Hold onto the ball!! lol ------------- Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!! |
Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 09:40
| Does anyone know how hybrid surfaces compare to 3G? Are they significantly more expensive? |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 09:51
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This is a fascinating subject. My small club has had a 3G pitch for approx. 8 seasons and we feel that we see fewer injuries. Kendal and Penrith both have 3G pitches and in conversation have the same story. It shouldn't be beyond the capability of anyone who desperately needs to know to collate these things. In our opinion, maintenance of the pitch plays a big part. At our club the rubber crumb is regularly "plumped up" and regularly cleaned and re-laid. The pitch is busy every day of the week with school soccer, adult soccer, Aussie Rules, university American football and rugby (adult and mini/junior). |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 14:57
Surely more time will be spent training on a 3G pitch than playing on it? ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Garvey4England
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 05:15
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We put our 3G pitch in at sixways in 2016 http://www.limontasport.com/en-us/products/infill/geo-plus/" rel="nofollow - http://www.limontasport.com/en-us/products/infill/geo-plus/ The main difference between our pitch and the ones at Newcastle and Sarries is probably the infill. Whereas the other two use a reclaimed rubber crumb the worcester one is made up of shredded coconut fibre and cork. It is watered before every game and the water is absorbed by the infill meaning players tend to get muddy rather than friction burns. Also, there is very little evidence of the spray you see at Hockey, meaning the game isn't played with a wet ball. with regard to safety, I don't believe we have had any significant increase in lower limb injuries in the three years it has been down. The fact that the scrums are more stable means we have probably had less. It needs maintenance after every ten hours playing time Downsides It doesn't look as nice as the more expensive, higher maintenance desso pitches used at Ashton Gate, Sandy Park and HQ and the bounce, although close isn't probably as true if I'm honest. I suppose it boils down to whether it's a playing or commercial decision and, ultimately, how much a club can afford.
------------- B&I cup winners and play-off escapologists 2015 |
Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 19:07
| https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/top-players-call-rugby-chiefs-16236787 |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 09:36
Wales on line Top players call on rugby chiefs to halt installation of plastic pitches immediately amid mounting evidence Data gathered over the past five seasons in England showed there were more injuries on artificial surfaces compared to traditional grass pitches. Is this correct ? I've not seen any evidence on the few for a I visit |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 09:41
Strange question Mike - are you suggesting that the evidence collected by the Rugby Football Union’s Professional Rugby Injury Surveillance Project (PRISP) is flawed/inaccurate? And if so do you have any counter-evidence of your own... There does seem to be a groundswell on this topic https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/top-players-call-rugby-chiefs-16236787" rel="nofollow - Article linked for those who want it
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Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 10:05
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islander I can see how that might be misconstrued but my intention was to ask whether the quote from Wales on-line was correct. It would appear that it is, thanks for posting the link. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 12:15
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Article in the Telegraph the other day re artificial pitches stats suggesting injury lengths are longer on artificial pitches. There are now 2 in the Premiership and 2 in the Championship? Not sure how many in N1 and N2N but 1 in N2S. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 12:52
Yes 2 + 2 with Newcastle moving to GKIPAC
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 13:27
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Rosslyn Park is the one that springs to mind. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Saturnate
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 13:55
| Loughborough also had one |
Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 14:15
| NAT2N now has then at Luffbra, Chester, Preston & Stourbridge |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 14:34
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There'll be another one in the Champ directly. Apparently. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: High Heidjin
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 14:40
Cov ?? ------------- The Inner Game Will Win Every Time |
Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 15:16
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I'm sure the answer would be grass even with all its weather prone considerations. |
Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 15:55
Yes, I know of one club that did and the choice of grass was unanimous as visits to sides with plastic pitches were deeply unpopular because of the effects on the body. Personally I think that they should only be used when the grass pitches are waterlogged/frozen. ------------- TJOS |
Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 16:14
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I believe the decision to have one therefore is based purely on economics, nothing to do with what the players want which is about as far as you can get from the idea of rugby being a game for the players. The players then, are looked on as commodities, to be told when & where to play and to hell with what they want or the consequences. How can any committee man look his players in the eye and say he has their interests at heart when in reality they are just pound note generating machines to him ? |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 16:20
Almost certainly. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Dalesman
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 17:13
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The hybrid pitch at Doncaster must be the way forward. It looked superb late season. Think I read it cost £400k |
Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 17:19
I agree. The technological advances in hybrids will hopefully lead to the plastic pitches being dug up. ------------- TJOS |
Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 17:35
| I think with the advance of drainage the days of mud bath pitches is over. In the last couple of years all our 5 pitches have been playable apart from snow and frost so I don't think we would ever move to 3/4G pitches |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 19:53
But when you are a city centre club with one pitch, that's used by three football teams (potentially five with Ladies/2nds), trained on, used by several local schools, for concerts (etc), what then? ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 19:56
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And to add: The Ricoh has a hybrid pitch which is used by two football teams, and not for training on. It's trashed. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 10:14
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And it seems that the Cov AGP is just about to be installed. Confirmation via a circuitous route (the owner of one of our tenant clubs who have been displaced for the rest of the summer due to the works). ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 12:02
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Whilst not a fan of such pitches this is great news as the Coventry pitch was by far the worst in Nat One when they were there and in the Championship. Not sure some of their heavier forwards will be thankful of the change..... |
Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 13:50
To be fair, at the end of the past few seasons the Cov pitch has been like playing on dried mud. A 3G pitch would have to be softer than that...
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Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 08:50
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Dylan Hartley in todays Grundian Hartley said he would like to ban playing professional rugby on artificial pitches, having injured his knee on Worcester’s artificial grass in December. “I don’t agree with them,” he said. “I’d played the fortnight before and I’d tweaked my knee in a game, then I played on an artificial pitch the following week and probably playing on an injury didn’t help. If there’s a platform to show my support for getting rid of artificial pitches, it’s here. It might be suited to under-10s or under-12s but from a personal point of view I don’t like them.”
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Posted By: Hobo
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 09:41
| So he injured his knee on a grass pitch but blames playing on a artificial pitch for making his injury worse? It is hardly scientific evidence against artificial pitches is it? |
Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 09:59
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Is there any scientific evidence to say artificial is better than grass ? Plenty of financial motives for plastic but no scientific evidence in favour of plastic either, just money men getting their way and player welfare be damned. |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 10:26
Is there any scientific evidence to say grass/mud/frozen winter pitches/rock hard summer pitches are better than artificial ? Other than old buffers with a fondness for the days of their own youth ? |
Posted By: PlangentThrowback
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:04
| The 2017/18 PRISP noted that the severity and burden of injury on artificial pitches was greater than on natural grass. This was particularly marked for lower limb injuries (foot, toe and hamstring). On average it's 39 days injured on artificial pitches versus 30 on grass. There's no difference in the number of injuries. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:10
This. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:12
forgive my ignorance but what does PRISP mean and/or stand for ? Ta |
Posted By: Insignificant Tick
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 11:47
Got it right there. What does it matter what it stands for, PRISP are only going to be old buffers anyway ?
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 12:10
Eh?
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Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 12:13
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The Professional Rugby Injury Surveillance Project ------------- Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!! |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 13:07
thank you |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 13:08
 
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 15:15
The irony of a man who has served over a year of bans wanting pitches banned is tremendous!
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Posted By: Onion Hawk
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 15:21
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https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/staggering-amount-of-injuries-on-4g-pitches-compared-to-grass-1.3641369 It said that for that season 608 injuries were recorded on grass, 170 on artificial surfaces. With just three pitches the exposure to plastic was less, but returned injury rates of 129.1 per 1,000 hours compared to the grass rate of 89.6 per 1,000 hours, the total hours representing 25 matches. The average severity for match injuries on grass was 32 days, compared with 37 days for artificial turf. So despite taking the proverbial out of Hartley, there are studies that suggest in our game the number of injuries and severity is increased on artificial pitches. However, I've found studies based on football that suggest the amount of injuries is reduced on artificial surfaces. |
Posted By: Mark Smith
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 16:09
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If grass pitches had been shown to have more injuries (the number of injuries on grass and AGPs is broadly the same, as it happens), would people be calling to ban grass pitches? And with most injuries happening in the tackle/contact area, should we ban contact as well? The line about Hartley playing in the game despite knowing he was already carrying a knee problem is also interesting.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 21:00
Really, considering the FA has stopped the proliferation of artificial surfaces I am surprised. I thought there was particular concern over leg injuries for younger players in their formative years. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 08:59
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The FA permits AGPs below a certain level - at which I'm quite sure there are a lot of 'younger' players. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Fat Albert
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 09:23
------------- a Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother |
Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 09:36
| Even the papers get it wrong. Rugby is only played on 3G pitches. Larger numbers refer to Mobile data. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 09:59
I once used that fact (in tongue-in-cheek fashion) on someone who was banging-on about 4g and 5g pitches. It went straight over his head. Almost as if there was no signal. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: PlangentThrowback
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 11:27
Mark, you should be a politician with your selective facts! Do you work for someone who has an artificial pitch? The report says the number of injuries on grass and artificial pitches is the same but the point it actually makes is that the severity and burden of those injuries are noticeably greater on artificial pitches (nearly a third higher). As for contact, WR are looking at the Laws to minimise the danger in this area of the game (whether the measures they are considering actually have the intended effect is another issue) and the injury problems around the tackle are also considered in the report I refer to above. It is noticeable that Gloucester players were consulted when Kingsholm's pitch was replaced and they came out in favour of grass rather then the artificial pitch favoured by the management who wanted to maximise alternative uses for the ground.
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Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 11:40
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Posted By: donnyladinsheffield
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 13:45
Yes, and don't call me Shirley ------------- He's alright and he don't care; He's got thermal underwear |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 16:14
I know. Big girls ain't they? However, my EFL club (who obviously play on that lovely natural grass stuff) have had six season-ending knee injuries in the last three seasons. Makes you wonder if the players would have actually survived had they happened on that nasty, vicious artificial stuff, eh? ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2019 at 01:35
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For me it is what injuries (if any) are caused by an unnatural surface compared to a natural, grass pitch. I.e. if everything being equal would the player have been injured? |
Posted By: Capt Sparrow
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2019 at 10:00
I am not sure about the lower leagues but in the Premier League they have Desso Grass pitches which are far superior to the rubber crumb type of 3G pitches. Of course it is all down to money as I believe the Desso pitches cost a million each.
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2019 at 11:12
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An AGP, installed from scratch, by a reputable company, will cost a lot more than a hybrid (and the latter may not stand up to weekly shared use very well as it's still basically a grass surface, on dirt, with some reinforcement built-in). Cov went the full 3g route as it would probably work out slightly cheaper in the long run, and would generate much more cash while avoiding the need to beg, borrow, and hire training facilities. ------------- Our Club |