RFU blueberries
Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forum
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=18635
Printed Date: 01 May 2024 at 07:47
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Topic: RFU blueberries
Posted By: gerg_861
Subject: RFU blueberries
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 21:08
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They really never stop, do they? RFU picks the optimal day to bring this out. No reason to realistically do this, but a great way to annoy supporters and broadcast partners. I cancelled my hospitality tickets to USA - England. I'm done supporting the RFU.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/12/rugby-union-ealing-trailfinders-championship-stadium-rfu-promotion" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/12/rugby-union-ealing-trailfinders-championship-stadium-rfu-promotion
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Replies:
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 21:21
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: dumbape
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 21:44
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Just another example of the complete failure of the RFU to understand their real role in the game. They screwed up the Sarries disciplinary situation, have alienated clubs and supporters and have made bad decisions for decades. The shareholders in the game ie the counties and clubs continue to be screwed over while at the elite level, reform is stifled to protect minority interests. ------------- What a blessing it would be if we could open and shut our ears as easily as we open and shut our eyes! |
Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 22:36
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(deleted) ------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group" |
Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 23:51
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There is but one word - WABOC ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 00:39
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Kiwifruits
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: Rucking Idiot
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 07:46
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When will the RFU realise that the structure of the game has changed massively since the 1970's; We no longer rely on public & grammar schools to keep a steady stream of young adults into the game; It's the hundred of the "Junior" clubs that start coaching children from the age of 4; I ask the following question because I don't know; "How many Premier clubs coach multitudes minis & juniors, or hold festivals?" Please don't say the Saracens Academy for all they do is take the promising youngsters away from their roots & friends and when / if they don't develop are casted aside as failures and a lot are lost to the game; Maybe the RFU should be run like a majority of clubs by unpaid volunteers who do it just for the love of the game... ------------- If it looks like a duck & quacks like a duck it's just my rucking luck! |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 18:48
| They're playing dirty again. It is so hypocritical when the Premiership sides all started the Pro era in grounds like Ealing's yet when they get stadiums, pull up the drawbridge so the smaller clubs don't get a chance. The Minimum Standards Criteria is nothing more than an excuse to keep the old boys club together. The RFU has the same problem that the rebel code have only they are bit more subtle about it. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 19:41
I wouldn't worry about it, after today's first leg result the RFU have got what they wanted. Saracens could field a totally different 15 next week, without any internationals, and still get promoted. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 05:45
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Unfortunately Raider you miss the point completely - or are being obtuse - RFU making this ‘ruling’ at a time like this just goes to prove how out of touch they really are and how clearly in the pocket of the PRL that they sit. Shame on you RFU - vote of no confidence ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 08:10
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Dean Richards had a headline in the rugby paper saying that so many players were now being lost effectively as they have nowhere to go if another Premiership club doesn’t pick them up. I guess their only real option is France, a few rich Championship clubs or to take a real hit in earnings hoping to be picked up again by a Premiership club after impressing for a season. https://twitter.com/therugbypaper/status/1403826784819363844?s=21" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/therugbypaper/status/1403826784819363844?s=21
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Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 09:52
| The unintended consequences of ring fencing are just so obvious to us in the Championship, a shame that the Prem and RFU are so myopic. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 10:43
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As ever the problem is French TV is willing to pay more for Rugby than British TV is. The RU has chosen to spend money propping up the Premiership clubs to make them competitie against the French in European rugby If you do that, there is very little to spend on anything else. The big problem with the championship and lower is it gets no exposure. Lower league soccer gets exposure beause the BBC reads out the score every Saturday - and people used to watch because they were doing the football pools. Because it gets no exposure, there is no value iin sponsoring it. And it is that much harder to interest a TV channel in showing it. And half the council think we are uppity clubs that steal their best players by offering them money in brown envelopes and would rather all rugby was played on a ploughed field behind a pub to one man and his dog. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 11:59
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CQ makes some really good points. The actual streaming figures for this season's Championship matches when no one could actually visit the grounds were hugely lower than the clubs themselves predicted. In some cases less than 50% of the predicted numbers. If actual members/supporters of the Championship clubs were not prepared to spend £10 on watching their team from the comfort of their own home when there was Rhubarb all else to do on a Saturday afternoon I can fully understand why no broadcaster wants to show the matches. The support for French clubs below their top league is on a totally different level to that in primarily due to history and culture, and that is then reflected in the TV deal. Sadly, but ultimately correctly, there is simply not enough money to sustain a full time second division in England. Maybe the Prem could expand to 14 or at a big outside chance 16 but certainly not 20-24 which is what you will need for two viable leagues |
Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 12:25
| Maybe you’re right, perhaps the answer is to bring the Union and League laws closer together and consolidate that way. Sacrilege I know. |
Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 12:36
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[QUOTE=marigold] If actual members/supporters of the Championship clubs were not prepared to spend £10 on watching their team from the comfort of their own home when there was Rhubarb all else to do on a Saturday afternoon I can fully understand why no broadcaster wants to show the matches. This is the real problem. Supporters don't want to put their hands in their own pockets to pay and blame the RFU, the premiership and anyone else they can think of rather than recognize the fact. ------------- Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 12:45
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Yes, it appears that streaming 'attendances' were quite low.
However, it was a novel thing that maybe many were not comfortable with? This would naturally improve with the passage of time. Further, the assertion that it was just Saturday afternoons is a bit misleading. KO times and days were all over the place (understandably, given the production company's needs/limitations) and likely clashed with fans' habitual mores/work patterns etc. Importantly, too, I'm willing to bet that quite a few people had 'watch parties' or at least watched with a partner/spouse who would normally attend the ground. Their statistic(s) and spend are therefore lost. Finally, quite a few views were lost due the the stupid decision to disallow a 'replay' watch, or time-shift to enable those who could not watch at the prescribed KO time (when the clubs self-organized, this was possible, and only when streaming was centralized did this become an issue. Personally I streamed every match bar one (Jersey) which was impossible due to pre-arranged family commitments. I'd still have bunged my tenner though if the replay option were still possible). Yes, it could have been far better, but it was far better than nothing. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 13:29
I would love to see what the figures were, and understand the numbers. For example, Ealing gave season ticket holders a code to stream the games. Did that detract from the streaming numbers? Also, even if the actuals were lower than the estimates, did it make any money? I know the first round was stated to have made money on every game. I do agree though - given that we were in lockdown, and there was nothing else to do, I am saddened and amazed that more people didn't watch. Every game in my house was streamed and had at least three sets of eyes on it.
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Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 13:46
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I must confess to hosting a couple of ‘watch parties’ although the attendees were also season ticket holders who could have streamed for free anyway. As a result no revenue was lost but viewing figures would have been distorted downwards. However, I did pay to stream several additional matches as a ‘neutral’ viewer to fill the odd afternoon/evening during lockdown. ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Jerorky
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 14:45
| I feel that the real fact is that most Rugby folks love the match day in total more than only the match: divert from mundane chores, meet friends and enjoy the camaraderie,- maybe even enjoy a social beer or two. Sitting at home watching is simply not as appealing. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 15:16
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The problem is you cannot run a professional team on the money you can raise on the gate. At least not if the gate is in the order of 1,000. If you want rugby for the fans - as oppossed to the vicarious viewers - it is goig to be semi-professional. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 15:16
Destruction of both sports in one easy action.
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Posted By: Trailfinder
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 15:49
I just feel with the ongoing concussion law changes this might just happen one day. Anyway off on a tangent apologies.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 17:07
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I am of the opinion that the decisions of the RFU over amateurism and opposing competition are some of the worst decisions by a sporting body - and we are living with the consequences. While I think a single code could be stronger than two - I am not sure what compromises I would be prepared to make to the laws to bring the other clubs back on board - and I suspect they would have the same view. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 17:27
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Isn't one big difference between English and French rugby that the latter is centred on towns or cities and often have municipal support? French Leagues are much more local, with the exception of the two Paris Clubs. I think the worst RFU decision was to ignore professionalisation and allow the Clubs to take ownership of the professional players. If we had followed the Kiwis in centrally contracting players, we'd all be better off now. My Premiership rugby watching is now limited to the Monday night Channel 5 highlights show, the rest of the time I'll go to my Club and watch what is on there.
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Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 18:04
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Halliford, may I comment "well said"? Sadly the RFU did a huge disservice to rugby in England when it allowed the Premiership Clubs to call the roost. And then it oversaw the disbandment of the County and Divisional structure. Is anyone in rugbypolitical power willing to promote a root and branch investigation and restructure proposal? Is it true that Yorkshire alone has a larger player base than both New Zealand and south Africa? Where to next my friends?
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2021 at 18:12
The only way that will happen will be if the rebel code admit they were wrong and reunite with the one true code.
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 15:24
To be fair to the RFU (words I never thought I'd say) UEFA put them in the shade by telling a team who had just spent the last half-hour standing to form a protective cordon around a team-mate whilst medics tried to save his life that they had to complete the game that evening or the following morning thus showing absolutely zero regard for the welfare of those involved.
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Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2021 at 23:29
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I'm not sure if this debate point of recombining the 2 codes is tongue in cheek or not. I live in a town of 6 Rugby clubs, only one plays Rugby Union. All except the fully professional Rugby League club have hundreds of kids every Sunday morning turn up. All six high schools in town play Rugby, none play Rugby Union, even though one was an RFU All School for the duration of time where they got the kit on offer and went back to Rugby League. I would say 90% of the town would walk over hot coals before re-combine ------------- The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 09:34
Quite right too. Two great games. Keep it that way. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 09:58
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Camp Freddie - I think what you describe is fairly typical of most northern towns. All the junior schools in my old Lancashire Town all play RL and always have done. It was only if you went to the grammar school (long since converted to a comp) that you were then converted to union. League is also much easier to teach to young kids - basically touch rugby with tackling and play the ball. Despite a few "outposts" RL is still primarily an M62 corridor sport and I can't see that changing EVER. A World Cup that is only ever going to be won by Oz or NZ even more so now GB has been devolved to the independent nations. A bit similar to Baseball "World Series" (US & Canada)
I agree with Kimbo - 2 great sports that I hope can thrive. The more pressing question is how we attract kids into Union in the North?
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Posted By: 373
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 10:02
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It's interesting that Ealing had previously been in exactly the same position: https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/all/domestic-club-rugby-union/32181/ealing-trailfinders-have-a-back-up-ground-plan-if-they-are-promoted/" rel="nofollow - https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/all/domestic-club-rugby-union/32181/ealing-trailfinders-have-a-back-up-ground-plan-if-they-are-promoted/ The truth of the matter is that every sport in the world has a minimum criteria for grounds/venues and to pretend otherwise is a little bit silly. It's very hard to sell the idea of an elite level game to broadcasters when it looks like a games being played on a pitch behind the local leisure centre.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 10:28
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I think Sale, Doncaster, Caldy, Leeds, Sale FC, Rotherham, Hull Ionians etc show you can run a gate taking Union club in the League heartlands. Yorkshire has more clubs than any other CB. Lancashire have25 county championship wins. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 12:01
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Thanks Camquin - I was going to say something about hordes of people play in Yorkshire ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 12:28
| So long as union remains principally a winter game one can have the best of both worlds pretty well all year round with cricket on Saturdays and rugby league on Sundays in the summer? |
Posted By: isleonian
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 12:30
| But not a huge amount of Rugby League in either Leicester or Exeter? |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 14:12
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You would be surprised. Both have university sides. https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/map-of-every-rugby-league-club-in-the-uk/" rel="nofollow - https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/map-of-every-rugby-league-club-in-the-uk/ ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 23:27
Show me the criteria for any of the pro/semi-pro football leagues within England, Wales Scotland or Northern Ireland. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 08:17
This is true. Footy clubs have enough sense to use grounds to suit whichever division they're aspiring to. I mean, look at Sheffield Wednesday... ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 10:33
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https://www.thefa.com/get-involved/player/ground-grading" rel="nofollow - https://www.thefa.com/get-involved/player/ground-grading ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 12:10
Well spotted Camquin! I do recall Forest Green Rovers having to do a lot of work on their ecologically sound stadium as they moved up into the Football League. Having read the criteria my Club meets most of the Grade A requirements except the one that says the location of the ground must be linked to the name of the Club. We are Esher but based in Hersham!!
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 11:30
At a lower level in football as you move up a lot of the additional requirements are for press facilities and the like rather than spectator comfort. Obviously when moving to the higher echelons you have to be all-seater to comply with regulations. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 12:21
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Actually I think you fail grade H, as the ground is not fully enclosed by a 1.83m fence - something common to most rugby clubs. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 13:08
I did say most! The fence only covers 3 sides!!
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 14:40
Actually Halliford the club is based in Walton-on-Thames. The Hersham boundary ends a few metres before the club as you head up from Hersham station.
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 21:59
Our postal address is Hersham, not Walton-on-Thames so perhaps someone moved the boundary. The postcode is KT - Kingston! Anyone bored yet?!
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 14:51
I'm sorry Halliford but you are wrong. Try putting your KT12 3PF post code into this official Royal Mail site and you will find your postal address is 369 Molesey Road, Walton-on-Thames KT12 3PF. https://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode It has always amused me that Esher know they aren't in Esher but don't seem to actually know where they are!
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 17:43
I'm just going by the letterhead and the registered office address! I live ion Shepperton which Royal Mail tells me is Middlesex - a county that hasn't existed for 30 years so you can't rely on accuracy from Royal Mail! Esher were formed in Esher but the land was cheaper in Hersham (or Walton-on-Thames) .... or is it actually West Molesey? |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 18:48
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Post codes are fairly irrelevant in many cases.
A village near me, which comes under Rugby, Warks, and is within the Warwickshire boundary, has a Hinckley LE10 postcode. Others nearby, within Leicestershire, have a Nuneaton CV postcode. The Ordnance Survey is a far more plausible guide. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 20:22
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Esher RFC is the the ward of Walton South within Elmbridge Local Authority. ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 20:55
do they? I'd swear Royal Mail stopped using counties in any postal addresses several years ago...
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Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 21:00
Since we have digressed off-topic, a pub called the Star at Leatherhead Common used to straddle the Gtr London/Surrey boundary. The public bar was in Surrey & closed at 10.30pm on winter weekdays; locals were required to drink up and leave, but could walk round to the lounge bar and enjoy another half-hour's imbibing...  Sadly the spoilsports at the boundary commission redrew the boundary 20ish years ago & removed this - to me - charming quirk...
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Posted By: JohnLowe
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 21:19
| Can’t you just tell that the domestic rugby season has just about finished🍺🍷🍺🍷 |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 14:32
I agree entirely that you can't go by Royal Mail postcodes so I was surprised you first raised it (if incorrectly!) but the parish boundaries also clearly show Esher Rugby Club is not in Hersham nor West Molesey but in Walton-on-Thames!! Whether people choose to accept that of course is entirely up to them. And you are right, this is getting boring!
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Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 16:21
| Wherever Esher RFC is located. It seems to have found its level in National Two South, not the Championship. |
Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 17:20
Anyway ... Manchester RFC play nowhere near Manchester, Birmingham and Solihull RFC play on the wrong side of the M42 from both of those towns, and Chinnor RFC play in Thame. This sort of thing isn't exactly rare.
------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group" |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 17:29
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Quite.
------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 20:41
We’d like to think our level is National 1. Mind you, with the reduced level of funding and thus cost, we could more easily afford the Championship. We are at National 2 because we hung on to the wrong DoR for too long.
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 20:42
And Saracens play nowhere near the Middle East. Just thought I’d get us back to the Championship!
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Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2021 at 12:27
if only they did!
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