Haywards Heath Withdraw
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Topic: Haywards Heath Withdraw
Posted By: DICKON
Subject: Haywards Heath Withdraw
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 17:30
| Haywards Heath RFC have just confirmed they are withdrawing from London 1 South, which will now be a 13 team league for the season ahead. Here's hoping Heath are able to compete again in the rejigged leagues next season. Suspect the pandemic may yet hit a few more clubs/teams and it could take some seasons for playing numbers to recover (if indeed they do). |
Replies:
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 17:53
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They did it again?! That's the second time in a decade they have done that. Back to Sussex 1 for them then.
On edit: After having had my rant and gone to check it out, there's no official announcement of that on their website. Are you sure?
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Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 18:30
| Yes. |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 19:36
I hear there are 2 clubs at National 2 level that are thinking about withdrawing for a season and another In Nat 2 South that have said if they cannot afford to travel they will not. There is one side In Ldn Se Prem that have already told Kent they do nit have enough front rowers and may lead to them pulling games. Interesting times ahead! |
DICKON wrote:Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 19:51
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If they withdraw for a season, or fail to fulfil fixtures, will they resume at the bottom of the pyramid - or is there some special dispensation for this season? ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Welshie7
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 19:57
| Is it not at the discretion of the CB….I.e. they could play at the highest league not administered by the Divisional committee? So in this case Sussex 2? |
Posted By: Maroon
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 20:10
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There is a new RFU Regulation dealing with Covid issue - Regulation 22. The relevant section is printed below. The full regulation can be found at on the RFU Regulations section http://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/0e/0e0de68c-2708-4813-adb5-74a10554cda4/Regulation%2022.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/0e/0e0de68c-2708-4813-adb5-74a10554cda4/Regulation%2022.pdf Reg 22 Match Management Covid-19 Variations The following match management Covid-19 variations will apply to such competitions as
identified in RFU Regulation 22: 1. Withdrawing from the league: In the event that a club does not wish or no longer
wishes to play in the league for the 21-22 season, the club must inform the RFU in
writing as soon as possible by completing a Covid-19 Declaration, which must include
a rationale as to why it no longer wishes to participate. Upon receipt of the Covid-19
Declaration, the following will apply: i. In respect of the Community Leagues, if the RFU approves such withdrawal
from the league the club will be placed at the bottom of that league for the
remainder of the season and the principles of promotion and relegation will
apply accordingly; ii. In respect of the Professional Competitions, the RFU will determine the
position of the club for the following season.
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Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 20:56
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I believe Manchester stated last week at Lancashire's CB AGM that they would not be travelling to IOM to play Douglas as they have no way of getting there and back the same day (RFU fund Squad Travel only) ------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 23:52
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Manchester have been to Douglas before, but it does look like there are fewer options this season due to covid. The central travel funding for journeys like that has been pitiful for years and keeps being cut. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 07:05
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I am sorry to say I think this is the start. Im told there are 2 clubs in National 2 (one in each league) that are thinking about withdrawing for a season as well as 1 in London Prem. |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 08:10
The League Secretary has emailed the other clubs in the league to notify them, so yes, we're sure.
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Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 08:10
And yet the regulations regarding promotion published yesterday state that there will be no relegation from Level Six, so they would effectively retain their place for next season. Don't shoot the messenger!
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Posted By: Oldman1
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 08:36
| Mark W-J does the no relegation rule apply next season due to the reorganisation of the leagues due in 2022? |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 08:47
| Yes and its also because of the adding of 2nd xv's to the RFU leagues. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 09:20
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So combining a reorganization that eliminates any relegation this season, with changing the regulations means the only sanction for not fulfilling games is missing out on a possible promotion, which the club may well feel it was not going to achieve. One does have to ask, does the RFU actually know what it is doing? I do have sympathy for Manchester and for Douglas and the other Manx clubs, as it does look impossible to do the trip in a day in September. By October, it looks like the second flight to Liverpool starts running ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 09:33
| I would hope the RFU will take a very close look at any withdrawal before deciding on where a club will be placed in the reorg. I don't think its a given any club withdrawing will retain its level. It would not be a great look to reprieve such a club then see them get spanked week on week in the re-organised league the following season. |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 09:51
That's right - three up with no relegation confirmed at Level 6, and possibly more from individual leagues depending upon the re-org of the Championship and more withdrawals further up the pyramid.
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Posted By: Sir_Q
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 09:57
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I think this will set a precedent and I fear more will follow, although i'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. On the one hand If clubs are hanging on by a thread, genuinely due to the impact of Covid then is it right they should be further punished by pushing them to the bottom of the league pyramid and potentially into oblivion? What would people think of the RFU if they proceeded to "kick a man when he's down" If allowing them a stay of execution in order to sort their stuff out and start afresh in the new look structure in 22/23 means that we have less clubs disappearing isn't that the right thing to do?. Haywards heath and OE's currently will potentially benefit from regulation 22 if their predicaments are attributed to Covid19. On the other hand, lots of clubs are struggling for finances and for players, so many have retired due to the enforced break but clubs are managing to work with the players they have retained/recruited and with the budgets they have got. Clubs taking a year out won't be able to provide players with regular, decent standard rugby and will without doubt struggle to recruit for the following season under those conditions, therefore is by allowing them to stay in the same league simply delaying the inevitable and maybe denying a team from the league below a promotion? |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 12:23
| I can see both points of view. A compromise is a club in such a position should go down one league the following season. This gives an additional opportunity to the teams in the league below to gain promotion and also allows the club in question some breathing space at probably a more appropriate level of the pyramid than at the bottom |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 13:07
| The new RFU Insolvency Regulation sees a Club suffering such an event, but still fulfilling fixtures, automatically relegated one level. OEs and HH have not said this is insolvency, they have just withdrawn their 1st XVs so they will need to start again wherever the LSE Division Competitions Committees and CB Committees determine. |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 13:16
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It is interesting to contrast OEs and HH as the Clubs that have withdrawn from the Leagues. HH own their ground and clubhouse, OEs do not. Clubs with their own ground and clubhouse should have been better positioned to survive the last two seasons because of the ability to earn other income. OEs were reliant on one sponsor, HH were not. OEs had the classic position of the sponsor withdrawing, sadly through death in his case, which has seen other Clubs fold (e.g. Mounts Bay). Both Clubs have good feeder set-ups, HH their Minis and Juniors, OEs their school. Those feeders should enable them to rebuild over time as London Welsh have done. This RFU article may explain some of it http://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/ambition-on-and-off-the-pitch-at-haywards-heath-rfc" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/ambition-on-and-off-the-pitch-at-haywards-heath-rfc
I feel sorry for everyone at HH which was my first playing Club, there are some happy memories of that Club. I wish them all the best in turning things round. |
Posted By: Welshie7
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 13:54
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I thought HH’s ground was council owned? I may have been misinformed though.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 17:04
On the contrary, I would have thought that clubs with their own ground/clubhouse would be in a worse position as they have overheads to find without income. Don't forget hospitality has been virtually non-existent for 18 months. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Delamas
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 18:35
| HH have struggled to retain players (and coach Ross Chisholm) since nearby Horsham received the RFU 4G pitch |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 20:07
| Stroud RFC have withdrawn from South West 1 (West) for season 2021/22 stating lack of players. |
Posted By: Welshie7
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 20:39
| I think that is the issue at HH. Nephew knows some of the players from his Uni days and the chat is promotion…..no rugby for 12 months….players deciding too much of a jump up in standard for them. I guess Covid will have also made a few reflect (or maybe wives and girlfriends decide for them!) on their Saturday afternoon activities. |
Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 08:52
Where can I find this regulation please? Searched high and low for it.
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Posted By: Free Fall
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 09:35
I believe this is the document Mark is talking about? https://www.englandrugby.com/governance/rules-and-regulations/regulations" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/governance/rules-and-regulations/regulations |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 09:54
| Thanks FreeFall - I only had a screenshot of the relevant clause from our Fixture Sec, but it's Regulation 13 Adult Competitions - 13.2.6 Principles of Promotion |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:13
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And as important 13.2.7 Principles of Relegation which says: at Levels 4 to 7 there will be no relegation, and at Level 7 only (unless otherwise approved by the Committee) the Level Transfer Regulations may apply; That might upset one Level 4 Club!
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Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:44
| Many thanks. Lot to read there I’ll take a week off and go through it |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 11:01
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Bear in mind, it is written with the situation as it - that is with the Championship remaining at 10 teams. If they decide to increase the number of Championship side, the number of sides relegated from national 1 goes down, if it goes to 14 or 16 there could be no relegation at all. And of course, more sides will need to be promoted to fill the gaps lower down - but that gets diluted quite quickly as the number of leagues goes up. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 13:52
| I would suggest that the probable decision will be for Championship to go to 12 which would have 2 promoted from Na1 1 leaving them with 13 so to get to 14 the option would be 2 relegated and 3 promoted from Nat N and S. The logical thing would be to increase the Championship to 14 which would make all national leagues the same size , including the Premiership, then promotion from Nat 1 could be conditional on Ground Criteria being up to the standard of the Championship. But being logical is not something we expect from the RFU. Hopefully this will be made before we start the season which is only 2 weeks away. |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 13:55
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Official statement released via the local press: https://www.midsussextimes.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/haywards-heath-rfc-reluctantly-withdraw-from-london-1-south-read-their-full-statement-here-3352188" rel="nofollow - https://www.midsussextimes.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/haywards-heath-rfc-reluctantly-withdraw-from-london-1-south-read-their-full-statement-here-3352188
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 14:43
The Chair of National League Rugby, John Inverdale, is on the RFU Working Party looking at how to restructure the Championship from 22/23 and is open to constructive opinions and views. He monitors this site!
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 15:05
I totally agree, logically 14 teams per league throughout would be the best option - so logical it will probably not happen. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 15:29
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The Champ had 11 sides next season last time I looked
Am I missing something? A withdrawal? ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 15:35
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14 is possibly a good number for an amateur or semi-pro league - as it allows more time off. But if any side has ambitions to play in the premiership, it should be close to fully pro so might want a 30 match season, which is easiest to arrange with a 16 team league. If you have a 14 team league, with 26 games, you would probably want to add a cup - and 14 is an awkward number for a cup competition. With Championship players not being included in the County Championship, it the Championship season could even continue past May 1, if they felt they needed more breaks. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 16:35
From the 11 you get 1 promoted to the Premiership, that leaves 10. 2 or 4 up from National 1 - then the knock-on starts!
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Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 17:06
Ah, after the promotion. Fair enough - that'll teach me to skim-read  ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 21:45
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I hear there are 2 clubs at National 2 level that are thinking about withdrawing for a season and another In Nat 2 South that have said if they cannot afford to travel they will not.
I find the las bit of that slightly worrying as the club they would no doubt choose not to travel to is Redruth! Assuming that is the case then we (or whoever) would be hit twice, cost of away travel (with no RFU travel money) and then no balancing income from the home fixture.
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Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 22:24
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Could be any one of three.
Barnstaple Guernsey Redruth
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Posted By: Welshie7
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 23:06
| It is the Canterbury chairman who says they will travel if they can afford it. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 22:15
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Canterbury to Redruth is one of the longest trips in English sport. It is further than Canterbury to Darlington. Of course, Redruth make trips nearly that long most weeks. But assuming RFU do the sensible thing of dividing level 4 as North, South East and South West - then unless both get promoted, it will not happen again. Redruth will still probably have of the longest travel - some things are immutable. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2021 at 07:53
| I think when the new leagues are formed there is a possibility of Chester v Redruth. The dividing line between the "North" and the South East and South West is very high and could even include Manchester Clubs. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2021 at 09:16
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True - but the idiocy of the reorg is another subject and I have ranted on that before. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2021 at 09:32
| U and me both Camquin! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 09:48
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I note:
I could read that to mean no level transfer at levels 4,5,and 6. But we have not seen definitions of the league boundaries, so how would we know. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 10:05
| The re-org will result in a plethora of level transfers every season - every version of my mapping of the new structure has clubs playing in leagues they had no idea they could be in. Withdrawals and appeals? U aint seen nothin yet! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 11:24
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The problem is that you cannot guarantee that the relegated teams come evenly from the supporting leagues. There are only two solutions, level transfer or changing the numbers relegated from the lower leagues. Teams hated not knowing if they would be relegated, so they introduced level transfers, but it increases travel. If the aim is to reduce travel - the logic says no level transfers. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 11:41
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The problem is that you cannot guarantee that the relegated teams come evenly from the supporting leagues. There are only two solutions, level transfer or changing the numbers relegated from the lower leagues. Teams hated not knowing if they would be relegated, so they introduced level transfers, but it increases travel. If the aim is to reduce travel - the logic says no level transfers. But would clubs live with that. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 20:09
So the hotel has been withdrawn? Is there not a flight back after the game?
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Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 20:15
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It will be a very interesting exercise to follow the journeys of some of the individual players who leave these clubs. Some clubs are very cash rich at the moment due to a deluge of available grants. Local authority hospitality grants, RFU funding, Sport England funding, plus their own crowd funding scams sorry I mean schemes. Some even furloughed players so that is very much cash in the bank for the relationship with the squad. Let’s see if some clubs are struggling because they are being picked off by circling vultures and offering what the struggling clubs can’t
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Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 20:48
| Not sure if anyones mentioned it but Haywards Heath will be operating with a side at Sussex 2 this year, not sure if they always planned to run a team at that level or not, but they will have a team at that level. |
Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 22:57
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The Manchester case is a good one. Even if the hotel costs were funded why should someone playing community rugby be expected to be away for a whole weekend? Obviously some lads would enjoy it but others simply couldn’t do it. Unless there’s a better solution then unfortunately Douglas can’t take any part in any competition that wants to keep its integrity
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2021 at 23:52
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Technically, you can fly out of Manchester in the morning and then get the ferry back to Heysham at 7pm - but you will not be home until the small hours. A long trp, but the mainland clubs make the trip once a year. In a normal year many sides would see it as a chance for a bonding boozy weekend. If the Man sides do not play in the pyramid, who would they play? ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 08:00
| The interesting point about Isle of Mann sides is that they are all connected to Cheshire County, even though they would fly to either Liverpool or Manchester. Outside the pyramid would be impossible for the leagues that were created came from all the Lancashire clubs who did not want to travel to Cumbria or IOM. The island clubs are the only ones who get any travel allowances even though travel to the south is probably more expensive Liverpool to London by train is £3000 for the squad plus travel in London and no overnight allowances. The Northwest now has vert few clubs in the RFU leagues at Level 7 and more are moving into the newly formed Lancashire leagues (including Cheshire clubs) so the bottom of the pyramid is gradually collapsing. In some ways it is better for these clubs as there is no incentive to buy success and move up and the fixtures at these levels are more like those the clubs played before league rugby and the clubs are benefiting by developing more sides. Perhaps we are at the beginning of a Post League era. |
Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 09:02
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CC, there are a few issues with the travel here. I understand that the Logan Air flight returns about 20 minutes after its landed. I have heard that later in the year EasyJet may start a service to the IOM but thats to be confirmed and again, airlines won't stay on the ground waiting for 15 lads to play a game of rugby. An evening ferry to Heysham in January is not my idea of a Viking River Cruise. Teams like Penrith, Kendal & Carlisle have upto 3 hours each way on a coach to the airport. The monies for travel funding were 5 times over applied for with applications over £1m. Workerbee, all mainland clubs travelling to the IOM get a flat £2000 to help with travel costs but when you factor in a coach to and from the airport it is nowhere near enough. ------------- The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 10:25
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The sad thing is that the reorganization could have solved some of these issues by cutting down the numbers playing in the pyramid and returned most sides to county leagues. The proposal I put on the table - done on a fag packet admittedly - right back in the beginning when AGR first came out which did that. I submitted it to them then and again in this round, but did not even get an acknowledgement that they got my email. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 10:32
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Camp Freddie, both Easyjet and Loganair sell singles. so depending on timing, it might be possible to fly out on one and back on the other. But that has its issues as they probably go from different airports. I have long said that the RFU should provide travel funding to permit all clubs to play first, and only after that provide any other support to clubs - especially the premiership. If the premiership wants ring-fencing, even temporary ring fencing, it should not need to rely on the RFU for funding. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 10:46
| The cost of coach travel is High and going higher, The problem with any journey is not the distance but the time , relating to drivers hours. a driver may not drive more than 4h30m without a break of 45 minutes which can be split into 15 and 30 minutes. over that time the driver will need a further break and then factor in the return journey it can lead to having to have two drivers which drives up the cost even further. Or alternatively an overnight stay which again increase the cost. It is interesting when looking at planning journeys sometimes a journey of 95 miles can take longer than 150 if it requires to go onto A and B roads where coaches are stuck at 30 miles an hour. |
Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2021 at 13:35
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CC - Both LoganAir and EasyJet fly from Liverpool. Easyjet lands on the Island at 14:05 and takes back off at 14:35. LoganAir lands at 08:55 and takes off at 16:45, not ideal but maybe a change of kick off time might work. ------------- The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. |
Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 13:09
What size aircraft is the Loganair? You are looking at ideally a 12.30pm kick off. Get to ground before 11am so not waiting around aimlessly, game finishes by 2pm to allow shower, some food and dash to airport. Just hope it’s not foggy
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2021 at 20:16
Strange from a club that was in N1 last season? Has the National League got any policy in place to cover that sort of situation? Or indeed any cancellation due to Covid? Covid cancellations are bound to happen, there is very little chance of playing them at a later date. I would hope any team refusing to travel would be punished beyond the obvious conceding of the points. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 07:41
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Scrumtime
Which London south east premier club has notified kent of possible pull outs ?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 07:53
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It is usually loss of points, however this season that is meaningless, it would need to either carried over to next season or converted into relegation. Canterbury do not travel to Redruth until March, or Guernsey until April. They do, however, have to travel to Barnstaple on 9th October - a mere 256 miles one way. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:32
| I have travelled to the IOM by plane and we sat on the tarmac waiting until the wind dropped below 50mph to the plane could take off, There were a number of players looking very green when we arrived at Douglas. |
Posted By: MikeGC
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:44
Last time we played Douglas away (in March iiirc) we made it clear from the beginning of the season that the playing party would fly out Saturday morning and return Sunday early afternoon. This was in 2019 before we lost Flybe. The first XV squad and their partners bought into the concept and a great short weekend was enjoyed by all of us. - especially as we won !! The lads funded their hotel accommodation (we negotiated a discount though) and beer tokens. The old farts and their partners flew Friday afternoon and returned late Sunday. |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 10:55
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Having done the planning for the last few years Bury St Edmunds to Redruth 375miles. No funding this year. In the past the transport has cost £2000+ and the accommodation 1500. I estimate this year the trip will be just shy of £5000. Bury St Edmunds to Barnstaple 301 miles . No funding this year. Again can't do that in a day!!! So hotel overnight. So that's another £3000for the whole weekend. Bury St Edmund's to Guernsey. We have to fly from Gatwick and are expected to get there and back in a day. We get £2000 for flights. Every time we have a fixture with Guernsey the RFU try to get us to fly there and back on the day. We haven't done it yet to our cost . I have explained that we are not there just to make up the numbers. Which usually results in an agreement to a hotel stay. But no funding for the return bus. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 11:22
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I assume you are sticking to the motorway, there is a shorter route via Milton Keynes, Oxford and Swindon - though taking the coach through Milton Keynes would be a right pain. The plan to put in a dual carriageway from the M1 to the A34 got canned. I think travel funding for these trips is essential, as there is no reason Redruth, Guernsey, or Douglas should not play at this level just because they are geographically isolated. But it is a financial strain for the visiting clubs, and even more so for them. Personally, I think it is much more important than giving money to Premiership clubs to pay ageing South Africans, or for hospitality at Twickenham. Though I know Thunderbird's and my County Chairmen well and I know how much commitment he put into the job. So maybe he should be permitted to wear his kilt to the Calcutta Cup match as a reward. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 11:44
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CC I have researched all routes . Often shorter routes result in longer travel times. Then factoring in drivers hours just to add a bit of variety.
Are you watching on Saturday?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 12:07
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Yes, I am coming. Always had a good time when we come over - win or lose. Fortunately, the loss in 2016 was not important. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 12:46
| See you there |
Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2021 at 13:32
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The thought of AB in a kilt is terrifying..... ------------- The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. |
Posted By: Bunkermentality
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 12:14
My understanding is that if a team withdraws from competition then the result is that the team must re-enter the leagues at the bottom. (Ask Richmond, London Welsh etc to verify.) Defaulting on fixtures causes a loss of points with an (unofficial) three strikes and out rule which triggers withdrawal from competition. However this season is covid-special and new regulations are included which state that if a team can justify withdrawal being due to covid then the penalty is to be placed in bottom place for their league. Bottom place means that the team is now subject to relegation rules but for this season all relegations from L3 to L7 are waived. So no penalty at all in reality. Does this suggest that the RFU haven't quite thought this last point through?
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2021 at 12:32
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There is relegation planned from L3, but that assumes that the Championship stays at 11. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 07:20
Technically London Welsh cheated a little because London Welsh Amateur were already in Herts/Middlesex 1 as a legally separate club so when the pro side went down, the Amateur side just took up the name and ground. Haywards Heath are also slightly cheating because their 2nd XV is already in Sussex 1 so they get to start one year ahead of where they should be
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Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 13:41
The London Welsh club in the Premiership never played at Old Deer Park. As you mentioned, they were a legally separate club. There was no cheating, little or otherwise.
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Posted By: BigChief
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 14:09
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Most Clubs have an amateur/lower level/social level which is vital for that club, that particular community and the sport in the wider context. Rugby for all? There are several clubs still in existence (well done to them  ) that have fallen on dark times only for their '3rds/4ths' etc to then somehow consolidate and continue playing lower down the pyramid. To say "they just took the name" etc (err the 'lesser side/XV' already had 'the name') or "cheated" (a lot or a little) is a pretty ill informed low blow IMO. ------------- For the ordinary purposes of conversation, a superficial knowledge of many things goes further than an intimacy with one or two. |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 14:59
Totally agree. If your senior side goes (and let's be honest, given they're salaried they usually do go when the wheels come off*) then absolutely your next most senior side becomes the senior side - whether that's in the Zoo League, level 9, or whatever. *speaking as a supporter of a club that basically once played out a season with the 2nd XV. Heroic failure about covers it. Though I accept that's a bit different because the seconds were fulfilling the firsts' league fixtures.
------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2021 at 20:32
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No matter where your 2nds 3rds or even 4ths are playing if your first team withdraws from a league that club should pay the penalty and start from the bottom
If its true that haywards heath have not done this due to their 2nds being one league above the bottom then that's a laughable loop hole
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2021 at 23:33
Effectively the same happened to London Welsh and Old Elthamians - so precedents already set. Not sure you have thought that through - how would it work if a side had several lower level teams - would they all be in the bottom division or do you want the rest of the teams to stop playing? ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2021 at 13:12
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Raider 999
Yeah didn't really think of that scenario doh🙄!! |