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The next Exeter

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Topic: The next Exeter
Posted By: isleonian
Subject: The next Exeter
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 18:48
At the request of OldNick this is a new thread simply wondering which might be the next club to follow Exeter's rise and success?



Replies:
Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 18:53
Could be Ealing Trailfinders, with the financial backing they have. Issue really is Crowds & lack of care/support for the team. 

Plymouth have a great following, just seem to be struggling on pitch. 

Moseley look strong now. DMP have a great base to work from. I'd say Pirates from a holistic viewpoint - fan base/financials/on pitch. 




Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 19:37
I would love to see Doncaster throw their hat in the ring, however we need to get our supporter base up significantly and I am not sure that is feasible. The facilities are pretty good and wouldn’t need much more development to make that feasible.

Ealing could do it without the fan base, but would likely find a few thousand more, and the increased gates from all the London derby matches would boost the gate income. So are likely strong candidates. Their ground currently may be an inhibitor of making it a permanent thing.

The Pirates have great potential too, with gates to support once they move to Truro. And the potential to recruit players from local stock is there.

Coventry could do it too, they only have WASPS nearby to really contend with for regarding supporter base - Worcester perhaps. Those two match day gates would/should have the ground bursting at the seams. Their ground development has great potential.

Jersey? I don’t know if their location is an issue…..

Looking down the pyramid there are a few who, with the right investment could do the trick. 

If the lockout of equitable funding in the Prem is resolved then the top 4 in the Championship may all have some chance of a shout.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 07:57
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

I would love to see Doncaster throw their hat in the ring, however we need to get our supporter base up significantly and I am not sure that is feasible. The facilities are pretty good and wouldn’t need much more development to make that feasible.

Ealing could do it without the fan base, but would likely find a few thousand more, and the increased gates from all the London derby matches would boost the gate income. So are likely strong candidates. Their ground currently may be an inhibitor of making it a permanent thing.

The Pirates have great potential too, with gates to support once they move to Truro. And the potential to recruit players from local stock is there.

Coventry could do it too, they only have WASPS nearby to really contend with for regarding supporter base - Worcester perhaps. Those two match day gates would/should have the ground bursting at the seams. Their ground development has great potential.

Jersey? I don’t know if their location is an issue…..

Looking down the pyramid there are a few who, with the right investment could do the trick. 

If the lockout of equitable funding in the Prem is resolved then the top 4 in the Championship may all have some chance of a shout.
Leicester were taking large numbers of Cov fans long before Wuss and Gasworks RFC were even in the picture. Still do.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 08:21
Leeds

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: KnightsBoy
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 08:27
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Leeds

Looks like Leeds are struggling in Nat 1


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 08:50
The next Exeter will come when the Premiership money men allow them to. That hypocritical Minimum Standards Criteria is their failsafe to ensure any upstarts stay in their place.


Posted By: Donnyknightfan
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 09:08
I think Pirates definitely have the fanbase to be a Premiership side. The thing that is holding them back at the moment is the new stadium (the lack of). I think Doncaster definitely have the facilities for Premiership rugby. Castle Park wouldn’t have to be renovated much to meet the criteria. Our crowds are a bit of a problem but when we reached the play-off final in 2016 we were getting crowds above 4,000. The support is there, it’s just that it’s dormant most of the time!. Unlike some people I actually think we would sell out the ground for Premiership games if we ever got there. Our ground is better than a lot of Premiership stadiums. 

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Donny Knights - best team in Yorkshire


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 09:52
Originally posted by Donnyknightfan Donnyknightfan wrote:

I think Pirates definitely have the fanbase to be a Premiership side. 
Unfortunately I think this may be incorrect. I would love to see Pirates or for that matter Donny have a go in the Premiership but I have serious doubts as to whether they would attract support when they start to lose more games than they win. The best model in recent times is surely Bristol Bears and they had the two magic ingredients of almost unlimited financial support from their owner and a huge latent support base. Ealing seem to have one of these magic ingredients - Cov probably have the other one. 


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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2021 at 10:05
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Donnyknightfan Donnyknightfan wrote:

I think Pirates definitely have the fanbase to be a Premiership side. 
Unfortunately I think this may be incorrect. I would love to see Pirates or for that matter Donny have a go in the Premiership but I have serious doubts as to whether they would attract support when they start to lose more games than they win. The best model in recent times is surely Bristol Bears and they had the two magic ingredients of almost unlimited financial support from their owner and a huge latent support base. Ealing seem to have one of these magic ingredients - Cov probably have the other one. 

then the answer's surely clear, Coventry Trailfinders! Playing somewhere between the two, High Wycombe for example.... 

I will now get my coat, though not before thanking Mr Dropout most sincerely for giving me a good laugh this morning at the idea that Mose could be the next Exeter. For a few seasons I was more worried about our ability to be the current Moseley... On the other hand, near on 1000 through the gates last Saturday, and, as ever, the fundamentals are right. There's just a horror of spending money  and getting into debt (understandably) after what happened at the turn of the century - we get by on just enough, when more than enough is what you need.


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keep the faith


Posted By: Bunkermentality
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 10:21
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Could be Ealing Trailfinders, with the financial backing they have. Issue really is Crowds & lack of care/support for the team. 

What is the "lack of care/support issue at Ealing?"


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 10:56
Originally posted by Bunkermentality Bunkermentality wrote:

Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

Could be Ealing Trailfinders, with the financial backing they have. Issue really is Crowds & lack of care/support for the team. 

What is the "lack of care/support issue at Ealing?"

I interpreted that as just a lack of care and support for Ealing in the community. I do wonder if/when they get to the Prem what kind of crowds they could expect. They managed c. 4000 for the Championship Cup final against Irish with about a 60:40 split in Ealing's favor. I would suspect that the games against the other London clubs (provided that Ealing can find a stadium in West London), would pull in at least that for the first season through visiting fans. Games against Bristol and Newcastle in recent years brought in about 2000, even in quite poor weather. Not sure how the community would get behind the team in the topflight, but it would have to be better than now.


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 14:42
I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 14:54
Originally posted by OldNick OldNick wrote:

I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?

Totally agree (especially about LW being the exception) however I don't think it's just a London thing - I'd be interested to know how many of the same Birmingham faces pop up at Leicester, Wasps and Worcester, for example, depending on who's at home. I know a few that do Worcester or Wasps on that basis and one that does Wasps and Leicester.

You could argue that they're the floating rugby fans who've drifted away from Moseley since the 1990s, and in a couple of cases you'd be right, but I think it's more the draw of match day spectacle. Whether the appearance of premiership rugby in Birmingham would cause them to desert the other clubs in favour of commitment to that side only I don't know.

I was as guilty of it as the next person I suppose, given that living in Oxford I watched Welsh when they played in Oxford but I haven't followed them back to ODP. I'd have watched Glaws in Oxford if it had been them. It helped that they played on a Sunday of course, so I wasn't forced to choose between premiership rugby fights for survival with LW and Championship fights for survival with Mose...




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keep the faith


Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 17:25
There won’t be another one. Not a chance. 

The only possibility could be Cornish Pirates, judging from the hoards who followed them in the County Championship.




Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 17:36
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by OldNick OldNick wrote:

I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?

Totally agree (especially about LW being the exception) however I don't think it's just a London thing - I'd be interested to know how many of the same Birmingham faces pop up at Leicester, Wasps and Worcester, for example, depending on who's at home. I know a few that do Worcester or Wasps on that basis and one that does Wasps and Leicester.

You could argue that they're the floating rugby fans who've drifted away from Moseley since the 1990s, and in a couple of cases you'd be right, but I think it's more the draw of match day spectacle. Whether the appearance of premiership rugby in Birmingham would cause them to desert the other clubs in favour of commitment to that side only I don't know.

I was as guilty of it as the next person I suppose, given that living in Oxford I watched Welsh when they played in Oxford but I haven't followed them back to ODP. I'd have watched Glaws in Oxford if it had been them. It helped that they played on a Sunday of course, so I wasn't forced to choose between premiership rugby fights for survival with LW and Championship fights for survival with Mose...


I'm up for an experiment.
There'll be a pretty decent stadium available in N. Brum after the Commonwealth Games. Do you reckon Birmingham City Council would offer W*sps an even sweeter deal than Cov City Council offered them for the Ricoh? I mean, it'd have to be genuine bargain basement, handful of peanuts territory to beat that, but...
No?
Just wishful thinking then...
Ah well.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 19:30
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by OldNick OldNick wrote:

I think one of the issues with predicting London clubs for Premiership success is that support-wise their total support is less than the sum of the parts.

By which I mean that visiting London clubs with Coventry in both National One and the Championship it was very clear that a sizeable part of the home support, except at London Welsh, was supporting the London club that was at home that week, rather than being fully committed home supporters of any particular  club.

That is if course not to say all supporters, but enough to be very noticeable.

So, what would happen with Ealing? Would promotion help them pull those people out to wherever in West London (or High Wycome ;-) they played? Or, would increased ticket prices, Premiership beer and catering bills.  and mud table mediocrity result in those supporters drifting off to see whichever club was winning at home more frequently?

Totally agree (especially about LW being the exception) however I don't think it's just a London thing - I'd be interested to know how many of the same Birmingham faces pop up at Leicester, Wasps and Worcester, for example, depending on who's at home. I know a few that do Worcester or Wasps on that basis and one that does Wasps and Leicester.

You could argue that they're the floating rugby fans who've drifted away from Moseley since the 1990s, and in a couple of cases you'd be right, but I think it's more the draw of match day spectacle. Whether the appearance of premiership rugby in Birmingham would cause them to desert the other clubs in favour of commitment to that side only I don't know.

I was as guilty of it as the next person I suppose, given that living in Oxford I watched Welsh when they played in Oxford but I haven't followed them back to ODP. I'd have watched Glaws in Oxford if it had been them. It helped that they played on a Sunday of course, so I wasn't forced to choose between premiership rugby fights for survival with LW and Championship fights for survival with Mose...


I'm up for an experiment.
There'll be a pretty decent stadium available in N. Brum after the Commonwealth Games. Do you reckon Birmingham City Council would offer W*sps an even sweeter deal than Cov City Council offered them for the Ricoh? I mean, it'd have to be genuine bargain basement, handful of peanuts territory to beat that, but...
No?
Just wishful thinking then...
Ah well.

I'd say you were welcome to them but I don't believe that. Basically they're not welcome.


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keep the faith


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 19:37
I'll also say that the worst occasions of that mad LW Championship season in Oxford (between the two prem ones) were the matches against Moseley. It was difficult with my LW friends to be in a different scarf for the day, but they were very understanding to be fair that on those occasions I was with my first love.

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keep the faith


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 20:35
What could happen is a poorly performing side currently in the Premiership could go belly up and leave some gaping holes, I'm looking at those on the brink of bankruptcy who with the loss of a cash provider could find themselves in free fall.........................bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2021 at 22:25
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

What could happen is a poorly performing side currently in the Premiership could go belly up and leave some gaping holes, I'm looking at those on the brink of bankruptcy who with the loss of a cash provider could find themselves in free fall.........................bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
If only.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Bluesman11
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 01:42
Only club I think in the Champ that has a remote chance of becoming a long term top flight club is Pirates. Ealing are likely to have a few years in the prem but they don’t have a sustainable long term business model. Mike Gooley won’t be around forever and the unlimited pool of money will eventually be gone. Not sure whether this will be in 5/10/15 years but Ealing will eventually mean revert to being a mid table championship or Nat 1 side.

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Championship Prediction League Winner 11/12


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 07:24
Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Only club I think in the Champ that has a remote chance of becoming a long term top flight club is Pirates. Ealing are likely to have a few years in the prem but they don’t have a sustainable long term business model. Mike Gooley won’t be around forever and the unlimited pool of money will eventually be gone. Not sure whether this will be in 5/10/15 years but Ealing will eventually mean revert to being a mid table championship or Nat 1 side.
The only real problem with this gloomy scenario is if the club go bust and collaterally damage others. If Ealing, Pirates, Cov or Donny buy their ticket to the prem and don't sustain it in the long term is it really a problem if they then slip down the pyramid provided they don't damage other clubs collaterally? It seems crazy to handicap clubs which gain promotion by making them build an unsuitable stadium at huge cost which they don't need and would only fill once in a blue moon. IMO if Pirates or indeed any other club win the Championship they deserve their chance to play in the prem even if it only lasts for a single season. 

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 09:43
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Only club I think in the Champ that has a remote chance of becoming a long term top flight club is Pirates. Ealing are likely to have a few years in the prem but they don’t have a sustainable long term business model. Mike Gooley won’t be around forever and the unlimited pool of money will eventually be gone. Not sure whether this will be in 5/10/15 years but Ealing will eventually mean revert to being a mid table championship or Nat 1 side.
The only real problem with this gloomy scenario is if the club go bust and collaterally damage others. If Ealing, Pirates, Cov or Donny buy their ticket to the prem and don't sustain it in the long term is it really a problem if they then slip down the pyramid provided they don't damage other clubs collaterally? It seems crazy to handicap clubs which gain promotion by making them build an unsuitable stadium at huge cost which they don't need and would only fill once in a blue moon. IMO if Pirates or indeed any other club win the Championship they deserve their chance to play in the prem even if it only lasts for a single season. 
This.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 07:53
Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Only club I think in the Champ that has a remote chance of becoming a long term top flight club is Pirates. Ealing are likely to have a few years in the prem but they don’t have a sustainable long term business model. Mike Gooley won’t be around forever and the unlimited pool of money will eventually be gone. Not sure whether this will be in 5/10/15 years but Ealing will eventually mean revert to being a mid table championship or Nat 1 side.


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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 08:20
Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Only club I think in the Champ that has a remote chance of becoming a long term top flight club is Pirates. Ealing are likely to have a few years in the prem but they don’t have a sustainable long term business model. Mike Gooley won’t be around forever and the unlimited pool of money will eventually be gone. Not sure whether this will be in 5/10/15 years but Ealing will eventually mean revert to being a mid table championship or Nat 1 side.

Sustainable long term business plan !.

Ealing football club ( RU ) 1871. Now in their 150th year are in the most sustainable phase of their existance . Our partnership with Trailfinders ( 22nd year ) grows stronger each year. Our amateur section has in excess of 750 members and is growing.

The relatively new  Rugby Union Academy in partnership with Brunel University is all part of Mike Gooley's long term legacy and will be long lasting way into the future.

The climb through the leagues has been gradual and carefully mastered by Mike Gooley and the team he has built and if Ealing Trailfinders do make it to the Premiership the exposure in the press and the TV will be be exceptional for Trailfinders Travel .

There is no others sports facility that I am aware of that is so well used day and night seven days a week. The diversity of sports is exceptional.




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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 11:05
The only possibility could be Cornish Pirates, judging from the hoards who followed them in the County Championship.

Don't confuse the Cornish Pirates professional team with the Cornwall national side, they are not the same thing.
The hoards that followed Cornwall in the 80/90's were for only a few games a season, at most, and it was as much a celebration of National Identity than pure love of rugby.
That said there would be decent support initially for the Pirates at premiership level (new Stadium still not certain) as it needs 14 million of taxpayers money) and it would be sustainable as long as Dickie Evans is putting in the money. 


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 11:17
There's a lot of ambition in the National leagues at the moment, but at present it's not coming together, I'm sure the current gang in the Premiership will do all they can to maintain their "club". I would be very surprised if they don't ring fence the league to protect their money.


Posted By: Stalwart
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 11:28
Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:

The only possibility could be Cornish Pirates, judging from the hoards who followed them in the County Championship.

Don't confuse the Cornish Pirates professional team with the Cornwall national side, they are not the same thing.
The hoards that followed Cornwall in the 80/90's were for only a few games a season, at most, and it was as much a celebration of National Identity than pure love of rugby.
That said there would be decent support initially for the Pirates at premiership level (new Stadium still not certain) as it needs 14 million of taxpayers money) and it would be sustainable as long as Dickie Evans is putting in the money. 

Fair point - Cornish Pirates is not the same thing as Cornwall County Championship team. Having said that, there is a great deal of potential support when the stadium is built. When we had one season in Truro, and the team were competing at the top of the Championship, the crowds were pretty big. The game against Harlequins was a sell-out several weeks before the game. If we could get into the Premiership (a big if, I admit) you could see games against Bris, Glos, Wuss, Exeter etc filling the stadium to its initial 6,000 capacity. A lot of opposition supporters would, no doubt, love a trip to beautiful Kernow! There is positive news about the stadium and the latest about the long awaited government (promised) contribution should be announced in November.


Posted By: Taffy
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 14:15
Interesting piece here, all be it from earlier in the year
http://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-35m-price-tag-to-join-the-english-premiership/" rel="nofollow - http://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-35m-price-tag-to-join-the-english-premiership/


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 17:30
Originally posted by Taffy Taffy wrote:

Interesting piece here, all be it from earlier in the year
http://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-35m-price-tag-to-join-the-english-premiership/" rel="nofollow - http://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-35m-price-tag-to-join-the-english-premiership/

AKA a franchise fee.

Another barrier the old boys club are putting in the way of any ambitious club


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2021 at 20:08
Originally posted by Taffy Taffy wrote:

Interesting piece here, all be it from earlier in the year
http://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-35m-price-tag-to-join-the-english-premiership/" rel="nofollow - http://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-35m-price-tag-to-join-the-english-premiership/


Link doesn't work

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RAID ON


Posted By: Cherub
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2021 at 22:01
Many rugby supporters have a main team to support, whatever the division they play in, but many are not prepared to travel to the away games. And as there is nothing to compete with watching a live game, they look around to see who is playing nearer to home. It is well known that I support Ampthill but I live near Ilkley on the West/North Yorkshire border. So I have adopted Wharfedale as my local team to watch. I was there on Saturday to witness a creditable draw with Hull Ionians. But when Wharfedale play away I have a choice of going to see Harrogate play, or Leeds Tykes now they are playing in Bramhope. I could even go to Otley or Ilkley.

London and Birmingham supporters will be the same. So, if Ealing go up to the Premiership, of course they will attract more support at first, but it will depend on their results there. If they lose their matches support will dwindle, and the attendances at away games like Sale, Newcastle, and even at the south west clubs won’t be great.

I cannot therefore see Ealing being the next Exeter. Cornish Pirates have a better chance.

I then look down the leagues to see if anyone is on the rise. Bourneville stood out. But then in the last few weeks Bourneville scored over 60 points at home to Wharfedale. Then Wharfedale beat Blaydon. And then Blaydon beat Bourneville at Bourneville last Saturday. Crazy. So I don’t think Bourneville will be the next Exeter either.

I think we are at least a decade away from another Exeter.




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Always trying to stay bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.


Posted By: Bedfordian
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2021 at 12:18
I agree, there will not be another "Exeter" for a long time.  Before them and ever since, clubs have come into money in one form or another, London Welsh, Bedford, Rotherham to name a few.  They tried to buy their way into the big time.  Eventually a blip means they have to retreat, some lower down the leagues, some altogether.

Exeter had a long term plan, yes they have had cash, but they built organically and slowly with a team of local talent which stayed together and became good enough to stay in the Premiership until they were established and could buy extra talent.

If Ealing keep the money coming in (and using the facilities every day will not fund a premiership team) then they stand a chance, but sadly it will be very similar to the names above and if they cannot build alongside the money a sustainable model and it will fail.


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 10:49
In many ways Ealing are already the next Exeter considering where they started from and what they have in place currently. My concern is that after winning the Championship-I do not think they lose another match- this season they will simply not be anywhere near competitive next season. Worcester are currently woeful and were the same last season yet have a stack of current and past international calibre players. Bath and L Irish have tremendous international calibre squads but are struggling for any wins. Where are Ealing going to get/afford players of that quality to even get close to one win. By the end of this season they will have achieved Mr Gooley's dream-I hope it does not turn into a nightmare


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 14:35
We're doomed.

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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 08:09
I was not fully aware of the Bedford Blues experience in the top flight and where the finance came from . I  read a few articles / reports that I found on the internet.

I now fully understand the bitterness/ warnings given towards others with similiar ambitions but there are major differences in circumstances.





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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 08:55
From what I can recall.

Frank Warren… until his assets were frozen at court due to a legal battle with Don King I believe.

We had a bit of a dream team with lots of up and coming stars but ended up having to borrow players from Worcester from the league below to fill in the gaps when players started to leave. There was pretty much a Blues player in every other Premiership club at the end.

We generated crowds of 5,500 + and this was late 90s

We then came down after 2 years to ND1 without any players or coaches and had to rebuild from scratch having raised hundreds of thousands of £‘s in a few days from Bedford people and other rugby fans to save the club.


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 08:58
Missed out the bit about having 2 “interesting” owners in between for a very short amount of time!


Posted By: Bedfordian
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 10:22
[I was not fully aware of the Bedford Blues experience in the top flight and where the finance came from . I  read a few articles / reports that I found on the internet.  I now fully understand the bitterness / warnings given towards others with similar ambitions but there are major differences in circumstances]

Every team who comes into money thinks that their situation is fool proof! Good luck.






Posted By: Bedford Bear
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 16:00
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

From what I can recall.

Frank Warren… until his assets were frozen at court due to a legal battle with Don King I believe.

We had a bit of a dream team with lots of up and coming stars but ended up having to borrow players from Worcester from the league below to fill in the gaps when players started to leave. There was pretty much a Blues player in every other Premiership club at the end.

We generated crowds of 5,500 + and this was late 90s

We then came down after 2 years to ND1 without any players or coaches and had to rebuild from scratch having raised hundreds of thousands of £‘s in a few days from Bedford people and other rugby fans to save the club.

Don’t forget the infamous John Gurney of Luton Town who acquired Bedford Blues for £1 from boxing promoter Frank Warren in 1999 and promptly sacked head coach Rudolf Straeuli and cut salaries. He then attempted to merge Bedford with Coventry Rugby and rumours feared he would move it all to Ashford, Kent. Such was the feeling in the town a buy-out consortium representing supporters and businessmen presented its plans to the rugby authorities then put them to the supporters at a meeting at the Goldington Road ground on a very highly charged Thursday evening. Gurney finally agreed to sell the club back to local business people after the English Rugby Partnership blocked the move to Coventry's Coundon Road.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 09:49
Originally posted by Bedfordian Bedfordian wrote:

[I was not fully aware of the Bedford Blues experience in the top flight and where the finance came from . I  read a few articles / reports that I found on the internet.  I now fully understand the bitterness / warnings given towards others with similar ambitions but there are major differences in circumstances]

Every team who comes into money thinks that their situation is fool proof! Good luck.

The key differnce in cirumstances is that Mike Gooley TRAILFINDERS  ( his company name is on the tin which I believe is unique )owns Trailfinders Sports Grounds unemcumbered. I previously mentioned the various revenues from a whole array of income generation to show that it is viable and sustainable. I also appreciate that alone would not sustain a Premiership team.

The other key difference is that Ealing Trailfinders have not "come into money " the partnership between Ealing and Trailfinders is over a 22 year peroid and  not a fly by night venture by dubious  ' businessmen   ' 


 







-------------
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 10:30
It’s not that unique to be owned by another business. The following have had their sponsor name in the team name. Mike Gooley like everyone won’t be around forever and new owners may have different ideas and plans. To truly stay in existence the club needs to be self sufficient at their level with then any extra investment being the difference from lower/middle table to upper end.

Earth Titans - aka Rotherham Titans
Pertemps Bees - aka Birmingham Solihull
Orrell - effectively owned (via Dave Whealan) by JJB sports which also owned Wigan football club
Bristol Shoguns - Mitsubishi 
NEC Harlequins 

Should have added that SW Communications are/were (can’t remember if they still are) were the driving force behind Exeter along with a land sale to Tesco from which they have built a more sustainable rugby business.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 10:37
There's a big difference between those those examples - which are purely for sponsorship reasons - and Ealing, which is part of the Trailfinders stable.  Newbury weren't called Vodafone Newbury, but they were completely reliant upon the sponsorship money, and almost collapsed when they pulled out.


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 13:31
Really enjoyed the interview from Steve Hill of Richmond in the Rugby Paper today. He of course said that ambitious clubs should have a clear path to the Premiership, but I particularly like his quote about Ealing. "Ealing deserve their day in the sun, even if it is only a day." As a fervent Ealing supporter, I hope that they are able to get promoted and win a long term place, but at the very least I'd like to see them have a season or two in the Premiership - it's better to be a has-been than a never-was.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 14:13
Well said GergClap

-------------
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Cricks at 2
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 15:50
That then makes us Blues the best supported has beens in British Rugby. 😇


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2021 at 17:37
The Soccer premiership is looking to ban related party sponsorship.
This is to ensure financial fair play - the risk being that the owner hides the fact they are financially supporting the team by disguising their payments as inflated sponsorship deals.

This is mainly to stop the Saudis supporting Newcastle, but would also affect Manchester City.
If it came into rugby, I think it would essentially prevent any owner from bringing another club up.

Both Worcester and Exeter have been adverts for their owners companies, Worcester heating and SW Comms. As are Ealing with Trailfinders.

Further down the pyramid, Old Elthamians and Secure Trading are in the same pattern, though their sponsor did not own the club. However, it seems clear that he was paying more than the market value.




-------------
Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 13:04
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

It’s not that unique to be owned by another business. The following have had their sponsor name in the team name. Mike Gooley like everyone won’t be around forever and new owners may have different ideas and plans. To truly stay in existence the club needs to be self sufficient at their level with then any extra investment being the difference from lower/middle table to upper end.

Earth Titans - aka Rotherham Titans
Pertemps Bees - aka Birmingham Solihull
Orrell - effectively owned (via Dave Whealan) by JJB sports which also owned Wigan football club
Bristol Shoguns - Mitsubishi 
NEC Harlequins 

Should have added that SW Communications are/were (can’t remember if they still are) were the driving force behind Exeter along with a land sale to Tesco from which they have built a more sustainable rugby business.

It is unique where I stated Mike Gooley not only owns the sports ground but also owns the company that have sponsored Ealing for 22 years.........that is unique and not comparable to any other club.


-------------
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 14:23
Who actually owns Sixways or Sandy Park?
Tony Rowe's SW Comms seem to have sponsored Exeter forever, and Worcester's links with Cecil Duckworth's Worcester Bosch also lasted a very long time.


-------------
Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 15:08
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

It’s not that unique to be owned by another business. The following have had their sponsor name in the team name. Mike Gooley like everyone won’t be around forever and new owners may have different ideas and plans. To truly stay in existence the club needs to be self sufficient at their level with then any extra investment being the difference from lower/middle table to upper end.

Earth Titans - aka Rotherham Titans
Pertemps Bees - aka Birmingham Solihull
Orrell - effectively owned (via Dave Whealan) by JJB sports which also owned Wigan football club
Bristol Shoguns - Mitsubishi 
NEC Harlequins 

Should have added that SW Communications are/were (can’t remember if they still are) were the driving force behind Exeter along with a land sale to Tesco from which they have built a more sustainable rugby business.

It is unique where I stated Mike Gooley not only owns the sports ground but also owns the company that have sponsored Ealing for 22 years.........that is unique and not comparable to any other club.
One question: What happens when Mr Gooley is no longer with us? I assume that there is some form of Trust established to continue his legacy, otherwise that land is on prime development territory and would sell for an astronomical sum, one would guess, would they Ealing Rugby Club be able to relocate somewhere nearby if this were to happen?

In my opinion Ealing are very lucky to have Mr Gooley, and I suspect that there would be many a club that would be very happy to be in a similar position. As for us, Doncaster Knights, our home Castle Park is facilitated by a limited company Castle Park Ltd who administer all of the facilities including conferencing, weddings, parties, sporting events etc. something that I am very proud of and encourage local folk to look to utilise when planning events. One day, if the rugby gods are smiling, perhaps we shall be in a position to play in the Premiership and then we will still be able to have one of the best grounds in the league but at present we shall remain content in the knowledge that we have one of, if not the best, grounds in the Championship.


-------------
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 22:16
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

It’s not that unique to be owned by another business. The following have had their sponsor name in the team name. Mike Gooley like everyone won’t be around forever and new owners may have different ideas and plans. To truly stay in existence the club needs to be self sufficient at their level with then any extra investment being the difference from lower/middle table to upper end.

Earth Titans - aka Rotherham Titans
Pertemps Bees - aka Birmingham Solihull
Orrell - effectively owned (via Dave Whealan) by JJB sports which also owned Wigan football club
Bristol Shoguns - Mitsubishi 
NEC Harlequins 

Should have added that SW Communications are/were (can’t remember if they still are) were the driving force behind Exeter along with a land sale to Tesco from which they have built a more sustainable rugby business.

It is unique where I stated Mike Gooley not only owns the sports ground but also owns the company that have sponsored Ealing for 22 years.........that is unique and not comparable to any other club.
One question: What happens when Mr Gooley is no longer with us? I assume that there is some form of Trust established to continue his legacy, otherwise that land is on prime development territory and would sell for an astronomical sum, one would guess, would they Ealing Rugby Club be able to relocate somewhere nearby if this were to happen?

In my opinion Ealing are very lucky to have Mr Gooley, and I suspect that there would be many a club that would be very happy to be in a similar position. As for us, Doncaster Knights, our home Castle Park is facilitated by a limited company Castle Park Ltd who administer all of the facilities including conferencing, weddings, parties, sporting events etc. something that I am very proud of and encourage local folk to look to utilise when planning events. One day, if the rugby gods are smiling, perhaps we shall be in a position to play in the Premiership and then we will still be able to have one of the best grounds in the league but at present we shall remain content in the knowledge that we have one of, if not the best, grounds in the Championship.

I believe it's a guarentee of 5 years worth of money. 
The club will have substantial facilities to develop a core home grown squad with the facilities/programmes available to them now.




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