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Alternative Cup Formats

Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forum
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=18777
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 06:07
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Topic: Alternative Cup Formats
Posted By: corporalcarrot
Subject: Alternative Cup Formats
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 08:23
I'm sure there are other formats so if I have missed something obvious put it down to age.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.



Replies:
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 08:55
If not the PRO D2 then the Prem A

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Taffy
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 09:25
The Powergen Challenge Cup/Shield competition for me


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 09:26
Ah, c'mon.
Just make it a 16 team league. No messing about.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Guinness John
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 11:59
Totally agree with Kimbo.  If Blues are grouped with Ampthill we will have played them 6 times  (including friendlies) this season. That said from a financial point of view, no doubt both will be more than happy.

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Bedford Blues Supporter of the Year 2010 - 2011


Posted By: Cricks at 2
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 13:19
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Ah, c'mon.
Just make it a 16 team league. No messing about.
Absolutely agree, home or away match every week, September to May.


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 13:41
Originally posted by Cricks at 2 Cricks at 2 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Ah, c'mon.
Just make it a 16 team league. No messing about.
Absolutely agree, home or away match every week, September to May.
My concern with 16 is it requires 5 more teams from Nat 1 or 6 if we lose Ealing or one of the other contenders. We could easily end up with cricket score miss-matches and a real drop in standards. The present cohort of 11 are fairly well matched - I accept Scottish are struggling but I expect them to come good in due course - I don't want to see easy wins being the norm and would rather see matches won or lost by a few points between teams in the Championship.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 14:13
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by Cricks at 2 Cricks at 2 wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Ah, c'mon.
Just make it a 16 team league. No messing about.
Absolutely agree, home or away match every week, September to May.
My concern with 16 is it requires 5 more teams from Nat 1 or 6 if we lose Ealing or one of the other contenders. We could easily end up with cricket score miss-matches and a real drop in standards. The present cohort of 11 are fairly well matched - I accept Scottish are struggling but I expect them to come good in due course - I don't want to see easy wins being the norm and would rather see matches won or lost by a few points between teams in the Championship.

I think there are five teams in Nat 1 that could readily stand up to the test and seeing as the Championship is destined to be semi-professional (thanks RFU) this is not a bad call.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 14:32
14 team leagues leaves gaps for recuperating or rearranging cancellations 

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 16:58
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

14 team leagues leaves gaps for recuperating or rearranging cancellations 

That would be my preference as a starter.

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Tackle Low!!!!!


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 17:19
If you play into May there are 38 weeks.
Nat 1 worked well with 16 teams and stopping at the end of April.

I doubt there would be many cricket scores - Ampthill and Richmond were not running them up in their last seasons in National 1, even against the sides that would be left out. It is not as though the promoted sides would not use whatever extra funding came with promotion to recruit.

I admit that an Ealing A side beat Rosslyn Park in the pre-Season, but I would think they might beat several of the Championship sides.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 17:29
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

14 team leagues leaves gaps for recuperating or rearranging cancellations 
30 matches per season isn't exactly cramming into 36 weekends is it? (35 even if you take out Christmas weekend, which I know a lot of folk would like to keep).
How many postponements do we get these days? Not that many, surely?
Supporters want real, competetive, meaningful, matches, against teams they haven't already seen two, three, four times already.
The argument re. diluting the RFU handout has largely gone away too, now.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 18:07
I appear to have posted my thoughts (thinking stuff through while composing) at much the same time, and broadky in agreement.
Maybe I miscounted (was doing it roughly, in my head, so could well be) but 38 weeks makes the argument even stronger if that's the case (Further, I now note the Prem season finishes on the first weekend of June this year).


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Westcoaster
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 19:00
14 team league and NO Cup competition would be my choice.



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Come on Jersey........


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 19:26
Originally posted by Westcoaster Westcoaster wrote:

14 team league and NO Cup competition would be my choice.



All leagues below and above the championship will be 14 teams - why should the championship be any different.

This would mean the champions going into the Premiership and the top 4 N1 sides being promoted to the championship.

So simple even the RFU could organise it so what is the Championship sides problems.

I cannot see the problem - if the Championship sides think they are that much better than the top 4 in N1 then they should never be in the relegation zone.

Smacks of arrogance in my book, especially when you consider Doncaster, Coventry, Ampthill and Hartpury were in N1 not that long ago.

I suspect the top 4 N1 sides would be competitive, after all they are likely to strengthen their current sides.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Cherub
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 20:44
A 14 team Championship league would be my choice too. Definitely no cup competition unless it was a straight knockout competition between the top 64 clubs from the Championship downwards, similar to football’s FA Cup. This would mean 26 league games and a possible 6 additional cup games for a few clubs.

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Always trying to stay bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 11:02
Raider I have no misconceptions about what the championship is - the teams in this league have no rights to demand anything other than what has been agreed. The Nat 1 teams are primarily all very strong and many would do well at this level.

16/14 teams makes no difference just getting a league that is suitable and sustainable. Don’t think that is too much to ask. 

Maybe you should look through impartial eyes occasionally rather than with whatever issue you have with this league. It is rugby and I believe we all want what is best for the game


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 12:41
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Maybe you should look through impartial eyes occasionally rather than with whatever issue you have with this league. It is rugby and I believe we all want what is best for the game
Good luck with that.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 15:02
Whilst French teams might be above us in playing standards, I assume a gulf exists between Championship and Italy Top 10? 

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Looking forward to new beginnings.


Posted By: Whistle watcher
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 17:49
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Maybe you should look through impartial eyes occasionally rather than with whatever issue you have with this league. It is rugby and I believe we all want what is best for the game
Good luck with that.
LOL


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 18:52
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Raider I have no misconceptions about what the championship is - the teams in this league have no rights to demand anything other than what has been agreed. The Nat 1 teams are primarily all very strong and many would do well at this level.

16/14 teams makes no difference just getting a league that is suitable and sustainable. Don’t think that is too much to ask. 

Maybe you should look through impartial eyes occasionally rather than with whatever issue you have with this league. It is rugby and I believe we all want what is best for the game


I have no issue at all with the championship, apart from the fact it should have made a decision about next seasons format before this season started.

Teams in N1 and N2 are well into their season not knowing how many teams will be promoted at the end of the season.

Even the RFU are not that incompetent!

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RAID ON


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 20:17
14 teams otherwise you create more leagues within the leagues with 16. There used to be 3 to 4 leagues within the league.  Currently it’s all pretty competitive.

I have said this many times before when we were 16, Blues would have youngsters from the academy mixed up with some 1st and 2nd choice and still win with 60 odd points. These games were not as well supported as everyone knew the result and it was a question of how many.

If we go to 14 it should be either 2 down or 1 down and play off for 13th v 2nd.


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 08:42
Originally posted by The Blues The Blues wrote:

14 teams otherwise you create more leagues within the leagues with 16. There used to be 3 to 4 leagues within the league.  Currently it’s all pretty competitive.

I have said this many times before when we were 16, Blues would have youngsters from the academy mixed up with some 1st and 2nd choice and still win with 60 odd points. These games were not as well supported as everyone knew the result and it was a question of how many.

If we go to 14 it should be either 2 down or 1 down and play off for 13th v 2nd.
I agree with this but we also need 2 up & 2 down automatic relegation & promotion to & from the premiership. Without the full overhaul we would probably end up with a handful of teams near the top of the pile like Cov, Pirates, Blues & Donny whose only meaningful games are when they play each other and a downward spiral of rugby standards. The competition between teams at present is brilliant - we want more close games like Pirates/Ealing and Donny/Jersey and fewer dead rubber matches.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: kempstonblue
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 09:13
Going back to cup formats.
Our local BBC station covers five football teams from Prem League to League Two.

Last week international break allowed for commentary of Ampthill v Bedford, and the non league football as they call it, Boreham Wood.

Today Boreham Wood travel 5 miles to local rivals Barnet in the FA Cup. Knockout football.

Rugby League has Challenge Cup.

Yet the best team sport…looks second rate regards cup competitions in England. A knockout format is always my preference, upsets in rugby are rare. 

The only question, would a cup mean a 14 team Championship. 

I also have not worked out how to reduce 70 clubs, if we include National 1, and three National 2 leagues into a competition. But I have the weekend and some A4 paper…laughs.


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Looking forward to new beginnings.


Posted By: Greg
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 10:12
I like the idea of a cup competition including the Championship clubs and French D2 clubs but it is quite impractical - the travel/accommodation costs alone mean that it is a non starter.
Create a Championship league of 14 clubs and include promotion and relegation (1 or 2 up and down each season). Easy-peasy!


Posted By: Member728
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 16:14
I like the idea of a cup competition including the Championship clubs and French D2 clubs but it is quite impractical - the travel/accommodation costs alone mean that it is a non starter.
not for Jersey Smile


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 20:58
Do like an idea of some form of British & Irish Cup format - just as it adds something difference to the usual domestic games we play.

I would support a ProD2 vs Champ competition as i would a Prem A vs Champ set-up - think it would benefit alot of clubs as i'd imagine gates for this would be at least on par with league attendances.

In the future i'd like to see a sort of RFU Cup competition throughout the levels like football

- RFU Cup (Levels 1 & 2) 
- RFU Trophy (Level 3 & 4)
- RFU Shield  (Level 5)
- RFU Bowl (Level 6)

Would probably add abit of excitment/financial benefit to the clubs partaking also.




Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 21:23
The whole point of the current restructure was to decrease the number of games - and that meant the 14 team leagues did not have a cup. The lower level league, with 12 sides, do have cups - even though that means more games and travel than before - but let's not mention that.

Cups, unless only within one level, also mean mismatches.


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Sweeney Delenda Est


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 11:25
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Cups, unless only within one level, also mean mismatches. 

Yet that's what lots of people want - the opportunity to test themselves against teams from a higher level and a good day out, regardless of the outcome.



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