Relegation
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Topic: Relegation
Posted By: NeilSKN
Subject: Relegation
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2021 at 23:48
| Can someone answer this simple question please. Is there relegation at level 4 this season? |
Replies:
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 00:08
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We do not believe so. There will be three divisions of 14 at level 4. So ten extra teams will be required - therefore no relegation. What we do not know is how many teams will play at level 2 - but we assume more than ten, so there may not be relegation from level 3. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Golden Jackal
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 08:05
| Whilst we all know why the RFU are determined to split Nat 2 into 3 divisions, Westcliffs results of late show the folly of no relegation. How can shipping over 300 points in their last 4 games be good for them or the league? |
Posted By: PM009
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 09:12
| Will the revised Level 4 still fall under the NCA banner? Be interested to know if they will run with team of 3 officials for example, and if they have resources to cover this? |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2021 at 09:33
|
I believe level 4 will remain with National League Rugby, as the NCA is now called, and will retain teams of three. It is only five of six extra teams of three. I have no idea who will run the six divisions at level 5. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Oldman1
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 08:03
| I understand that “teams of three” are planned for the new level 4 leagues. But no-one has considered where these extra officials ( thought to be about 20 in number) will come from. There is a shortage of referees at all levels, and every “team of three” takes two officials from lower down the league structure. Also I hear are concerns that the number of cancelled league games means the end of season league tables will not give a true picture of clubs strengths. Perhaps those running the show could those of us who pay for it what is happening? |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 11:34
| At least Level 4 knows what the structure will be. Neither the Championship nor Nat 1, to the best of my knowledge, yet know how many clubs will be involved in their league next season. |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 11:56
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As I understand it from National League Rugby meetings, etc: 1. Championship numbers for 22/23 will be decided in early 2022 after the end of their consultation. 2. National 1 will reduce to 14 teams, however, whether there is relegation will depend on how many go up to the Championship (If the Championship want a 14-team League then 4 will go up). 3. Winners of National 2 South and North will be promoted to National 1. Play-off between second-place teams may depend on Championship numbers. 4. Level 4 expands to 3 Leagues of 14 through promotion from Level 5. 5. Level 6 expands to 6 Leagues of 12. 6. Refereeing at Level 2/3/4 stays as it is currently so additional Referees and ARs will be needed at Level 4. There will inevitably be more "cricket scores" as the stronger teams in Level 4 meet the teams coming up from Level 5. I have yet to see Westcliff play, just seen their score, but the quality of rugby from Barnstaple and Rochford Hundred is some way of historic Level 4, IMHO. It will take some time for Level 4 to settle down to competitive Leagues as players decide which Club to join to further their 1st XV ambitions.
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 13:21
| National 1 is already down by one club, of course, with the demise of OEs. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 14:44
|
Level 4 do not know how many teams will be promoted ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 17:00
Cut league games and potentially add a cup (that very few want) - I cannot see the point of that personally ------------- RAID ON |
Camquin wrote:Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 18:12
| The amazing position that level 3 find themselves is as a result of Level 2 clubs not being able to decide on how many clubs they want in their league. At the end of this season they will lose one club probably Ealing to the Premiership leaving them with 10 clubs , which is obviously unsustainable. This has been known for over a year. At the start of this season they decided to have a 4 month Consultation period in order to decide if they go up to 12, 14 or 16 team league. How difficult is it to make that decision!! Personally I would simply lock the representatives of all 11 clubs into a room and not let them out until they come to their senses and make the decision. As the RFU are cutting the funding to level 2 dramatically cutting the money into 12,14,16 is now less of an issue and clubs will need to have more home games to raise funds from gate and bar income. However while they dither Level three do not know if 2,4,6 are to be promoted and 4 2, or 0 relegated. Do they not know what effect they will have on the whole pyramid below them. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 18:38
I'm sure they do - they just seem to be full of their own importance and don't care. It would be good if the rest of the pyramid just said - no promotion to Championship (or only 1 as normal) - you play another year with short numbers. Unfortunately, I don't think this will happen ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 18:49
| The Cup idea definitely won’t happen. All NLR Clubs have ruled that out so even if Level 2 Clubs wanted it they would have to play themselves. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 19:39
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No mickey mouse cups ffs!! Think I've got my maths right but if we go 14 team Leagues across the board which makes perfect sense to me (not sure about anyone else) then with OE's demise we will actually need 13 teams to come up from L5 to L4, so assume top 3 in Reg Prems plus best 4th finisher. Totally agree with locking up the L2 clubs till they come to a decision - baffles me why the rest of us have to wait till Jan '22 and even then it wouldn't surprise me if they deemed "further consultation necessary"
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Posted By: sedgley dave
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 20:19
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Perhaps we should impose our own ring fence in reverse, and refuse to accept Championship clubs coming down. Not this year, I know. Is it a given that the clubs at the top of Nat 1 (Cinderford, Rosslyn Park, Rams and Sale FC currently) actually want to go into what seems to be a shambolic Championship? Some will, but perhaps not all? Could promotion be 'available' rather than automatic? Finally, wouldn't it have been better to make the north/south split at level 3 rather than at level 4? What we have at the moment is so good, it seems perverse to change it. Yes, I know about Westcliff, and these things happen, but week after week almost every match is closely contested, right through our three leagues, though I do think 14 clubs is about right.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 20:37
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I did not say I liked cups, but enough people on here seem to. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: sedgley dave
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2021 at 21:58
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Cups can become part of a club's history and folklore. Back in 1978(?), Sedgley beat Fylde in the Lancashire Cup, and that became part of our pride and identity, still spoken of today. It mattered not at all that we lost to Broughton Park in the next round. Years later, we would actually win the Lancashire Cup, fielding our 2nd XV throughout. In 1998/99 we travelled to Blackheath in the Tetley Bitter National Cup, where we won 22-21. This was huge for us as a club, at the time, especially as Wasps came to Park Lane in the next round. So yes, let's have Cups. Eventually, you'll get stuffed by someone good, but only once. There's the difference.
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 08:01
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I dislike Cups and so do the current players. When I ran the 2nd XV at Esher we were the Surrey Cup team but we couldn’t play people who had played more than a certain number of 1st XV matches so my team was half third team players. Yet because it was a Cup match all the Club bigwigs came to watch. When we lost they would complain about the “weak” 2nd XV, not realising it was mainly 3rd XV. No Cups!
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Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 08:31
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Think you could run a successful cup at Level 3 & 4 (i.e. semi pro level) with first couple of rounds at regional level, then nationwide. Perhaps include level 2 if that becomes semi pro rather than going the other way. Best match at my club of youth was when Saffron Walden entertained Blackheath (Tony Bond and all) in the JPC 3rd round in the mid 80’s. SW edged the 1st half when Club tried to run the ball and they only prevailed by forward dominance. Made me desperate to represent the Green Army as they called themselves! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 08:50
|
And there you have the debate in two posts. Level 6 and below have cup games (actually a pool system rather than a knock out) to make up for reduced league games. Which to my mind completely negates the core principle that clubs wanted fewer games and less travel. So if Esher II enter the league pyramid, rather than staying in the Shield, they would be capped at level 7 and would have a cup. Esher III would be therefore capped at level 8 - as the RFU does not trust clubs to have two teams in one league - apart from the Shield. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 10:21
| What is a bigger issue is how they split Level 4 into 3 leagues , so far it would appear to be North, South West and South East. This is to "reduce" travelling. However what it becoming apparent is where the line is drawn for the Northern league. Early indications show Chester in the South west League! which would include Redruth and currently Plymouth are in the bottom 3 on Nat 1 , I am sure they will escape the drop but it would be possible for Nat 2 SW could include Redruth and Plymouth , good luck to any Northern club drawn into this league!! |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 11:17
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With respect, all the Cup memories so far are from the last century when there were fewer League games and Cups were still more important than Leagues. Look at the existing Cups and the number of WOs when teams pull out. I do believe the Level 4 Leagues need to based on travel arteries. I have already suggested Leagues based on the M1, the M5/6 and the M62. The problem will be the imbalance of Clubs in those areas. Esher would have easier travel using the M4 and M40 than the M1 but few would suggest us going to the West. The structure we get won’t please everyone, but neither does the current structure, and it will take time to bed in. If only we could detach Devon and Cornwall and move them further up the Bristol Channel!
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Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 11:23
| It’s not just the South West that is a travel issue. For example Bury St Edmunds are in Nat2 South. Getting to and from Chester ( and certainly Hinckley) from the south west is much easier than getting from the latter to East Anglia. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 11:54
|
The problem with England is that it is close to being an equilateral triangle. And a lot of the premier clubs are in the corners, Tynedale, Canterbury and Redruth. We have seen one version of possible league structure - as I understand this is not final, especially below level 4. The clubs to be divided between the three divisions will change - Redruth might get promoted. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 12:04
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I have similar recollections of either playing in, or watching famous cup wins in front of big crowds and yes they were fantastic days, the ones you tend to smile about when the memory fades. Yet we all forget there were no Leagues in these days so not surprising that it's the "Cup days" that stand out. Fixtures were arranged by mutual agreement by Hon Fix Sec and it was extremely difficult for any up and coming ambitious club to arrange games against the big boys (as perceived by themselves as a very select clique) So yes, remember and enjoy the good old days but Cup competitions are only of any significance if clubs take them seriously - evidence in today's times suggests 99% of them don't so absolutely pointless pursuing them
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Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 13:01
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I don't think the introduction of league rugby killed Cups. We (WRFC) were still fiercely competing in the Surrey Cup during the 1990's. What changed that was the number of league games increasing when leagues went home & away in 2000. London 1 went from 16 league games a season to 20, and then subsequently 22 & 26 etc. Too much league rugby squeezed out Cup rugby. If thenumber of league Saturdays is reduce there is no reason why proper cup rugby can't be revived. Players want to win leagues, win cups and get representative honours - we as clubs should enable that IMO. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 13:25
But you are missing the point. Most supporters like the 16 team leagues as currently present in the National leagues. However, apparently players and DORs voted to reduce the number of games - hence the reduction to 14 teams per league. The introduction of cups at that level negates the requested reduction in games. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 14:00
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Is it a game designed for the players or the supporters? I suspect most players would be happy with 12 team leagues, a decent cup competition and proper representative rugby at the end of each season. You wouldn't have to start the season until Mid September and if you get knocked out of the cup early you have a few more weekends to rest weary bodies. |
Posted By: Golden Jackal
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 15:06
| spot on! |
Posted By: Golden Jackal
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 15:07
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Apologies....ref That Bloke... I have similar recollections of either playing in, or watching famous cup wins in front of big crowds and yes they were fantastic days, the ones you tend to smile about when the memory fades. Yet we all forget there were no Leagues in these days so not surprising that it's the "Cup days" that stand out. Fixtures were arranged by mutual agreement by Hon Fix Sec and it was extremely difficult for any up and coming ambitious club to arrange games against the big boys (as perceived by themselves as a very select clique) So yes, remember and enjoy the good old days but Cup competitions are only of any significance if clubs take them seriously - evidence in today's times suggests 99% of them don't so absolutely pointless pursuing them spot on! |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 19:23
Exactly, using football as a comparison (as they have cup competitions) - for years the league cup has suffered the larger teams putting out second teams at best until the last couple of rounds. This has now spread to the FA cup, once famous for shocks as full strength top flight sides were occasionally beaten by lower level teams. Nowadays even the lower level teams put out reduced strength sides saving their players for the more important league games. An example of this was the recent last 16 league cup game between Preston and Liverpool where both sides made at least 9 changes from their previous league games. Cup games in rugby belong in the past where they should remain - for instance there is now no way a full strength Championship side would be beaten by a Nat 2 side - the gulf in fitness/size/ability is just too high when teams are separated by more than 1 level. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 22:36
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boatyjames I suggest it is a game for the players -without them you would have no spectators. 12 team leagues give only 11 guaranteed home league matches and if you are knocked out in the first round of the cup or are drawn away you have reduced income/increase travel costs. A 14 team league gives 13 guaranteed important home league fixtures from which budgets can be predicted and a decent number of weekends off in the season for the players/managers/physios. Cups were great................. a long time ago.
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Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2021 at 23:43
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Would it be sensible, given the expansion of the Premiership and Championship which was not envisioned when the plans were drawn up, to kill National 1? I think that 14 team leagues would lead nine down from National 1, to one down from each National 2 division plus the 15th place team with the worse record, or a play-off, and 1 up from each regional Premier League. This would cut travelling, would put less stress on the need for teams of three, and might reduce the number of cricket scores - though the former Nat 1 sides would rack up a few. Of course, it does not solve the lack of South Western and Midland sides and the large number of Northern and London sides - so there is still a risk of a sides North of Birmingham going to Redruth - or a Sheffield side travelling to Kent. It would take a lot of clubs giving up a season in a true National league - would the clubs vote for that? Is it worth asking them? ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 15:41
Removing Nat1 will not happen (at least not in this round of structural changes which have already been agreed). A possibility if this did happen would be to have 4 Nat2 leagues SE, SW, Midlands and North. The winners of which could play-off for promotion to the Championship. But as I said - new structure already decided (with exception of how many new teams are required to go into the Championship - which of course affects everyone below level2 ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 18:04
| Of course we still don’t know whether the winner of the Championship will be promoted…….. |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 18:14
| What we do know is that at the end of this season the winner of the Championship will be promoted , Probably Ealing. Once the Premiership is up to 14 there will be at least two seasons with no promotion to / Relegation from the Premiership which a review after. I believe that ground criteria will be a key issue thereafter when whoever comes top of the Championship seeks to get promotion to avoid another London Welsh. I also think that entry into the Championship will also be subject to strict ground criteria to ensure clubs put facilities before playing squads. A sustainable club needs to ensure in future it can support themselves rather than rely on an Individual who has a limited life span. |
Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 19:00
| In my experience, what players say they want and what they actually want are not the same thing. Even in an unbeaten 22 league game season, our players did not make themselves available for a Cup Q/F just 2 steps from Twickenham. This lack of support for cups is not based on matches played but on the changing desire of players and a complete lack of support from the RFU imho (who used to ensure sponsors for Cup competitions, which meant prize money increasing with each passing round.) The new post season Cup will see an increase in the amount of walkovers, will wither on the vine and will lead to a further re-evaluation of the league set up beneath L4 as the season will effectively end a couple of months early for many clubs. Whilst there has been a groundswell of support for a reduction in league matches in the National Leagues, this has not been matched at L5 and 6 in any of the presentations I attended on the re-org, which covered 3 different regions of the country. I can also see a big rise in the number of level transfers (or league switches as they will need to be known) as there are no longer even numbers of leagues to flow down/up at L4-6. This will increase the number of appeals we will see (yes, I am dull enough to have mapped this out and I come up with different leagues on each occasion). I hope the RFU are utilising local knowledge to decide who ends up in which leagues at the seasons end, but I am not holding my breath. This longest of pre seasons ever is a last hurrah for a decent league structure for a while - its going to take some time to sort out the mess that the re-org will bring, but mark my words, it will be a mess. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2021 at 19:41
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Maybe all leagues below level 4 should also be 14 teams - without cups - then all teams know what their situation is irrespective of the level they are at? ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 09:56
| I should add as well that by reducing the number of promotions by removing the Play Offs at L4-6 large numbers of league matches will become meaningless from around half-way thru seasons as the aperture to promotion narrows and clubs can quickly find themselves unlikely to be either promoted or relegated. An early end to the season with a Cup competition that few clubs (or players) want and an even earlier end to meaningful, competitive league rugby is not a recipe for maintaining interest in adult male club rugby let alone increasing it. The re-org may save my club from the spectre of relegation this season but it is not going to reverse the decline in playing numbers and may well do more damage still - thankfully, a review of the re-org is written in after 3 seasons but that's a long time to wait... |
Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 12:39
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Cup rugby should clearly be spread through a season so that leagues culminate in early April and cups shortly thereafter. And players really don't need to play every Saturday, a few more breaks might entice back some of those players we have lost due to COVID. Some key players have found other things to do on a Saturday and aren't coming back to our game to commit to 26 League Saturdays. I don't buy this "players just aren't interested" line, it is the same line some used to try and kill off county rugby. When a meaningful county competitive structure with good coaching was re-established nearly all our players were keen to get representative honours and committed themselves to the program. |
Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 13:19
| Agree on spreading the cup thru the season James but County cups have also withered in recent decades with only a few counties still running meaningful competitions. There has to be some reason cups are not supported by players and it can't all be down to how many matches they play because at every level the national cups have seen increasing numbers of walkovers. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 14:02
Cups are a thing of the past - even Yorkshire cup has so many walk overs it is barely worth playing it. League Rugby has become the main thing - spread Cups through the season would just mean a week off for many players and under strength teams contesting those matches actually played. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 14:57
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Not our experience Dickon. We provided numerous players to Surrey post season in the last 10 years and they all enjoyed and benefitted from the experience. It did tail off a bit just pre COVID but that was more to do with the coaching set-up at Surrey than the competition itself. Representative Rugby gives players an opportunity to shine on a bigger stage and I see two of those players are now in the pack at Rosslyn Park and one is scrum half/wing for Raiders. But I am talking as someone associated with an N3 club and I can see that lower down the structure cups that you have no chance of winning or that aren't meaningful will be an issue. But that is fixable with a bit of imagination. How about a divisional cups for N3-N1 clubs and County cups for all below that level? |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 15:47
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I find it interesting to see that players want less rugby, for those clubs who pay players on a with a match fee it will mean 4 less pay days , which will benefit the clubs budget plus two less travel costs (Especially Now the RFU are not funding travel or overnight stays) Travel for Nat 1 clubs from the North could cost over £4000 per game to travel to London or Cornwall if you include an overnight. If you look at home gates for Nat 1 very few are above 500 and some as low as 100. Bar and gate will not cover away costs. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 16:30
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It is two fewer home games, so two fewer sets of tickets, lunches, bar sales, match sponsors, raffle tickets. It is two fewer times the fans see the pitch side hoardings, shirt sponsors etc - so the value of those goes down. And yes, I realize that not all sponsors do so for economic reasons but even so. But it does not reduce the cost of rates mortgages payments, maintenance, etc. So the amount the clubs will be able to pay per match is also likely to be reduced. From the matches I have seen, I think gates are down this season - several long time fans have not come back due to concerns over covid. Statbunker's numbers suggest national 1 averages 533 this season, so slightly down. National 2 averages about 340. As ever numbers to be taken with a whole heap of salt. Cambridge's lunches are way down - I do not know about other clubs. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: DICKON
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 18:19
| County Cups and County Championships are completely different BoatyJames - I am talking about the Cups. I agree the County Championship is a great competition and well supported by most counties. |
Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2021 at 22:14
| The Surrey Cup was and could again be a great competition for junior clubs. It’s not for Esher 2’s or Richmond Saxons etc was always a cup for junior clubs and should be again. If you want to call junior clubs level 4 and below or level 5 and below I don’t mind! Not sure an exiles club really gets it ;) |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 00:29
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Esher are currently at level 4, and if it is not for Esher II it is certainly not for Esher. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 10:43
As level 4 is in top 72 clubs in the country (currently only 71 with OEs demise) it's members can't be described as 'junior clubs'. If you want to make it level 5 and below that is up to you. It might be considered the natural breakpoint although I'm sure some level 5 clubs might rail against it. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 10:55
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I got my levels muddled up - I meant level 5 or 6. So have a divisional cup for N1-N3 and county cups for Level 6 and below. There is a Championship consultation survey out and about at the moment with a deadline of Monday - I will try and post a link. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 11:58
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Boaty - I can only give you an illustration from my own area (North Mids) which is not the strongest rugby wise admittedly and I'm sure cups are "received" differently across the country. The North Mids Cup is contested between clubs at Levels 5 and 6. Eligibility varies each year depending on who has been promoted/relegated. There is a Vase and Plate competition for those lower down the pyramid This year there were 11 clubs eligible, 5 chose not to enter to "concentrate on the league" even though we are in a year of no relegations. The "draw" is then fudged so that clubs due to play each other in the league are drawn together so they can play it as a double header (to avoid w/o or withdrawals) Two level 6 clubs given byes to the semi final where they will play at home again to help reduce likelihood of withdrawals Absolute farce and just illustrates what I have been trying to allude to in a previous post Erm on a seperate note "Championship Survey" - just remind me how long they've had now to try and sort themselves out. Never mind another effin survey - get in a room and thrash it out
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 13:55
N1 and N2 voted to reduce the number of games - I am certain this wasn't to add a cup instead. No such thing as N3 so not sure what level you are referring to. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 14:29
| No such thing as N3 🙄 sorry Raider it was called that as recently as 2017, but if we want to be pedantic take it that I mean the 4 regional premier leagues…. |
Posted By: rugbychris
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 16:09
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A cup competition doesn't become meaningful just because you play a final and win a cup. It's quite obvious that county cup competitions and also RFU cup competitions are not well received. Its not because the idea of a cup competition is without merit or could potentially be exciting its more todo with the tired and unimaginative way in which they are run. I don't want to be another anti-RFU poster but the answer to engaging with players doesn't have to be rule changes or format changes, rugby x, rugby 12s etc etc Surely it is more to do with excitement, recognition and achievement etc. I believe you could still create exciting cup competitions, it would just take some imagination and graft. A bit of prize money for anyone getting to the quarter-finals and beyond. Club prizes from sponsors. Try of the round. Competition podcast. Prize for top tryscorer/points scorer etc etc. Limitless possibilities. Or, just do the same thing year in year out and expect things to change.
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Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 16:23
So you agree then - no such thing as N3 - apart from in the history books. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Golden Jackal
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 18:49
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Sorry Boaty, but I am with That Bloke....Cup Comps are a thing of the past and clubs and players are just not interested! On my travels both in E Counties and around National 2, I do not hear anyone asking for cups... The game has moved on and rightly or wrongly leagues are the be all and end all....
The days of a lower ranked club fancying a crack against a higher placed club just doesnt happen.... The gulf between leagues is so vast that clubs simply refuse to play and or travel..... In my county the cup is run for teams at level 7 and below and that gets reasonable engagement, but sides above that just arent interested or as before, wont play someone higher than themselves! |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 21:47
| Just to add insult to injury the Level 6 club given a bye to the semis of the North Mids Cup (Home against a Level 5 club) have withdrawn from the competition if indeed they were ever in it, not having played a game - fudged double header or not |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2021 at 22:19
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From Rugby refs forum - where are you this weekend thread.  Originally Posted by Lee Lifeson-Peart
https://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread.php?p=376580#post376580" rel="nofollow">
This weekend. Yorkshire Silver Trophy - which is quite a nice trophy. Hullensians (L8) v Bridlington (L7). Should be interesting - Hullensians 2nd in Yorkshire 2, Brid 6th in Yorkshire 1 Postponed (Cancelled)
I don't know why YRFU persist with their Cup/Bowl/Plate/Trophy - no one gives a toss about them.
Supposedly restructure (if it happens) is to allow for more of these non-games to happen. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: @boatyjames
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2021 at 10:06
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I think there is a strong strain of groupthink here and taking the wrong conclusions from the situation we are in. Why are clubs above level 7 not interested in cup rugby 🤔 could it be that 12 team leagues stop at level 7 and 14 team leagues start at level 6. 4 more rest weekends, fewer injuries, time to enjoy another competition. Cup rugby been squeezed out by too many league games, it’s as simple as that. It could be as exciting as it ever was and provide variety from the grind of the league. But I can see from this thread that most aren’t willing to raise their eyes and scan the field! |
Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2021 at 10:18
Sorry. The proof is in the pudding. Clubs enter cup competitions, players don’t want play them so games are called off. It’s not just the “first choice” first XV who are t interested the fringe players aren’t bothered either
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Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2021 at 20:48
| Happy to raise my eyes and scan the field. In fact I did that 3 years ago with the Esher players - 1st and 2nd teams. Zero interest in a Cup competition, either with sides above them or below. Then I asked the Committee - they would much prefer certainty around fixtures and to avoid games being called off, either because we had been knocked out or because the opposition won’t turn up. Cups have gone, they don’t suit the modern world of semi-professionalism, they belong in the old days of amateurism when standards and fitness were much closer than they are now. |