Exeter Chiefs
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Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 08:32
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Topic: Exeter Chiefs
Posted By: FHLH
Subject: Exeter Chiefs
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 17:31
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Exeter are changing their longstanding logo to a local Celtic chiefs brand. "Exeter have announced the club will be changing its logo away from the current Native American-themed brand from July. The club, which has repeatedly come in for criticism in recent years owing to their appropriation of Native American imagery, songs and attire, have revealed a new logo inspired by a different tribe: the Celtic Iron Age Dumnonii, which has history in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset. The change comes after the club say they undertook "a full and informative review process over the past two years"." Keeping up with modern ideology but a grim design. Any other inappropriate teams out there? ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Replies:
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 17:42
Seems to me they have just postponed the decision until someone takes exception to them using the Celtic Chief rather than the redskin version. ------------- RAID ON |
FHLH wrote:Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 17:47
| All Black's???? |
Posted By: Shamrose
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 18:03
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It was a pretty obvious switch but was forced on them by a minority who probably weren’t even fans which I do object to Safer to name yourself after an animal that bears no relationship to the Club like Bristol
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Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 19:26
What a mad world we live in 
------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 19:48
| Spot on - lost the plot big time to the Do-gooders and PC Brigade. How about "All One Colour" Best bow out now otherwise the forum police will be on our case |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 19:56
| Falling to foreign PC whingers. I really thought they could hold out. I hope the fans keep wearing their headdresses and doing the tomahawk chop to show this is their club, and no corporate money-man is going to take it from them. |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 20:59
| Going against the grain here, but I think it's time to retire the native American 'Red Indian' stuff. Attitudes evolve & I doubt many under-40s (a camp I've long since left) have any great attachment to the old style, in the same way as they didn't run round the playground as kids sticking feathers in their hair, patting their palms against their mouths and chanting wa-wa-wa-wa... |
Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 21:13
I’m totally with you on this issue. I’m in my sixties and, like many, spent much of my youth playing ‘Cowboys and Indians’. That doesn’t mean I think it’s ok to do that now. If there is a cultural group, wherever they may be, that find it offensive to maintain the current position, is it really too much to expect a change? Exeter Chiefs will still be Exeter Chiefs, it’s just the imagery that will change. I would hope we’re all sensitive enough and wise enough to see that. It certainly won’t stop Exeter being my ‘second-best’ team. Time to move on people. ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 21:33
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I bought some cheese called 'Black Bomber' the other day. I don't suppose that name will last much longer once the 'PC' people are aware.
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 21:36
Lest we forget..... http://www.bristolbears.co.uk/" rel="nofollow - http://www.bristolbears.co.uk/
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Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 22:19
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So, unlike many here, I'm actually a North American. I hail from Canada and specifically Montreal. The First Nation on the Island of Montreal is Kanien’kehá:ka, which most of you would call the Mohawk. My family also live in Ontario and my father lives in the Cowichan valley on Vancouver Island. The use of First Nation and Native American imagery for sporting teams has long been an issue in North America. Over time, those who've used those images and mascots have started to change. This isn't being Woke. It's about respect. The indigenous populations of North America were treated with appalling disregard over the centuries, initially by the British and French, but also later on by the church and the government where they attempted to create a good Christian/Anglo brand of 1st Nations people and sent their children to residential schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system If you feel that this is the hill you're going to die on, then you've chose a bizarre hill. |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 22:51
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Wow it becomes even more strange. ------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: carlos fandango
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 07:02
| Can anyone enlighten me about the connection between Native Americans and Exeter. I always thought is was a little bizarre that they chose that in the first place. |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 08:37
would work for Cinderford though... [ducks] ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Steve@Mose
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 08:49
Hmmmm...... http://www.forestryengland.uk/article/wild-boar-the-forest-dean" rel="nofollow - Cinderford Wild Boars ........?
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Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 08:49
I went to university in Exeter at the back end of the 1990s, before they left the County Ground. Based on what I saw while I was there, I *think* - and this is just my recollection of what became my second team at the time - that it's roughly this. In Devon there was a longstanding tradition at many clubs of the first team being the 'chiefs'. When they needed a name for the pro side they went with Chiefs because it was regionally specific and everyone down there would already know what it meant. Then, in the 1999 the marketing guys thought 'ooh Chiefs, there's an obvious way to run with this' - and went off down the Native American route. I *think* this is an example of branding leading the fans, as I don't remember feather headdresses or tomahawk chops being a thing at Exeter in the 90s. Personally, I can see why they did it, but even in the 1999 it felt like skating on thin ice - if they'd always done it that *might* need more consideration but IIRC in reality all that branding's only about 20 years old and was even at the time (never mind in retrospect) a bizarre/tactless decision. I seem to remember the student newspaper kicking of about it when it was announced - though it's a while ago now so might be misremembering. ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 08:52
I was thinking more about the question that could still start fights in Forest pubs 20 years ago - maybe still? ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 09:28
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Maybe we should all take the Jersey Reds route and be named after vegetables. ------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 09:44
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This question: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039lmjr" rel="nofollow - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039lmjr ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 11:09
| How Long will it be before the supporters paint themselves with blue woad and dance naked shaking their spears and shields. Surely this will not upset the local Celts |
Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 16:04
I have always thought that it was chosen to represent a warrior attitude and to associate with bravery against all odds. ------------- Ambition should be made of sterner stuff. |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 16:57
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No, as said, lots of Devon teams called their 1st XV the chiefs once upon a time. Exeter are just the highest profile and decided to run with it. It's just 'chief side' as in 'top side'/'first team' ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: All the Way
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 18:04
Quite right, well said!
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 20:41
I guess they can then keep the tomahawk chop and call it the spear shake!
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 22:49
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I struggle to understand the attitude "that if I'm not upset by something, then it's not a problem, the World's gone mad/PC/Woke etc" The Exeter Chiefs name I can understand *but the Native American imagery and actions was bizarre when first thought up never mind now. If the Native American/Indigenous People/First Nations don't like it for whatever reason they have the right to say so and be listened to. We are adults but some people have very childish attitudes to this, like they take personal offence but then criticise those that have genuine reasons to be offended and no one can deny the suffering of the Native Americans /Indigenous People/First Nations throughout history. *Providing the First team called Chief thing is real, and to be honest I've seen no evidence presented other than heresay. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 10:34
| I'm afraid I have to disagree Richard which will come as no surprise in the light of some of my previous posts. The truth is we can all find something to offend us if we are that way inclined. Although not rugby-related the latest waste of time escapade is taking "Midget Gems" off the shelves for fear of causing offence to the dwarf community. Maybe the best solution is to take a whole host of words out of the English Language and let's all pretend they don't exist any more |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:18
You are proving my previous point that you are offended by these changes but those that are directly affected can't be. Doesn't it smack of double standards? ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:56
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I cannot see why teams need anything other than their name, why do we need Chiefs, Sharks, Falcons,, Tigers, Saints Warriors or any other additional word, I see it as purely a marketing ploy which makes no difference to many rugby followers, the teams will always just be Exeter, Sale, Newcastle, Leicester, Northampton and Worcester to me. ------------- If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire? |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 12:03
There is a difference between those that always had a suffix, mainly due to how they were founded, to those who adopted one post professionalism for marketing reasons. Leicester Tigers fit into the former, Exeter Chiefs the latter. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 19:29
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I've never liked these stupid American football style names for rugby teams and was left scratching my head and laughing when Bristol became the Bears I've got a mate who's from Bristol and he was gutted when they were the latest club to follow this trend and ripped up their famous coat of arms badge and replaced it with winnie the poohs angry uncle Having said that it's even more ridiculous what's gone on at Exeter being scared stiff of the woke pc snowflake brigade and changing their badge in case it offends someones shadow🤦♂️
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Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 21:58
| Absolutely Havant Tony - I'm with you as you will see from my previous posts on this thread. Many disagree but I'm convinced that YES the World HAS gone mad |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 07:06
And while both of you may have read what JimboJetSet wrote previously, you don't see his argument as a legitimate one? As JJS concluded, what a bizarre choice of hill to die on...
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 07:29
A few questions for you. 1) Why does the proposed change OFFEND you so much? Are you a snowflake for being offended? 2) How you define Woke and Snowflake? 3) What does the" Indian" headdress/wigwam bar/Tomahawk chop have to do with Rugby? 4) Does changing the branding affect how Exeter play rugby? ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 10:49
| Richard, I am with you 100% on this. |
Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 11:11
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I've yet to understand why certain people consider the term 'woke' to be an insult, which is how many seem to use it.
To be awake to the injustices and dangers of racism is a good thing in my book. Call me woke as much as you like. ------------- Our Club |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 11:45
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OK let's take this to its logical conclusion Wigan/Worcester "Warriors" - change the name offensive to pacifists Salford Red "Devils" - change the name offensive to the religious Just two off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others. The whole issue goes far beyond rugby, and sport in general for that matter, and it is very much a political matter across a much wider spectrum but anyone venturing into that area gets a swift admonishment (from you Richard!) The whole thing has gone too far and it just gets more ridiculous as the days go by But at risk of said admonishment I'll tell you what offends me - people tearing down statues - the British legal system then saying that's OK if you don't agree with what they stand for (under review I accept) but probably grounds for tearing down every statue in the UK I suspect - positive discrimination - quotas to tick boxes on the grounds of diversity - constantly apologising for our history - pandering to minority groups - the end of freedom of speech - Midget Gems being taken off the shelves - And a question - If things were indeed so bad at Yorkshire cricket that it became unbearable why on earth would you go back for a second helping? I could go on.......... I was having a conversation with some fish last week who said they were offended that 3 fish appeared on our club logo. After a thorough investigation and analysis of the possible offence being caused we decided to replace the fish with feathers but now the bloody chickens are complaining!! Rant over - I await my admonishment
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Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:13
And another example of double standards and you are failing to see it. You are entitled to your view and to complain ( but then you are in danger of being labelled a "snowflake") but you don't think that other people with an opposite view to yours have the same rights - they are being "woke" etc. If these things upset you and there was a way to do something so they no longer upset you, would you make the change and remove the thing that upset you? [For example would you feel better if statues were no longer being toppled?] This is the crux of the Exeter Chief argument. All the ridiculous branding/actions upsets a community who are on the end of racial intolerance - Native Americans being on the receiving end of people doing 'Tomahawk chops'/'Indian cries' etc in front of them because this is how films etc have portrayed 'Indians' as savages. It upsets them and in the year 2021 shouldn't be a thing. No one can surely defend such events. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:26
But what about in the year 2022?
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Posted By: Thames Estuary Man
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:27
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I'll tell you what offends me - people tearing down statues - the British legal system then saying that's OK if you don't agree with what they stand for (under review I accept) but probably grounds for tearing down every statue in the UK I suspect - positive discrimination - quotas to tick boxes on the grounds of diversity - constantly apologising for our history - Midget Gems being taken off the shelves I’m with you on these Thatbloke In my eyes there is no justification for either negative or positive discrimination and the statue being thrown in the Bristol docks is pure vandalism which disgusts me. As for rugby clubs being given names like Bears, Chiefs, Saxons etc I’ve never felt the need to take the names very seriously. I still just refer to them as Bristol, Exeter, Southend. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:33
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Thanks Richard but it would be Interesting to know exactly how many Native Americans watch Exeter either live or on TV? I suspect not many - yet again it's a case of changing the World so a minority aren't offended. Opinion on the points both you and I make will be polarised one way or the other, there really isn't any middle ground so I think now may be the time for me to take my "double standards" out of the discussion and perhaps reflect on any thoughts expressed by others Ps Thanks for not issuing expected admonishment!
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Posted By: All the Way
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:39
I too agree with Richard 100%
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Posted By: All the Way
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 12:48
Well said Kimbo, I too am mystified how it became a perjorative term.
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Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 13:17
First thought for you to reflect on: Some people choose to keep their counsel, running the risk that they may be thought ignorant. Others choose to ‘say it as they see it’, thus removing all doubt. ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 13:21
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Many thanks oneagainstthehead - I'll take that as intended - a posh insult! The forum moderator has acknowledged that I am entitled to have an opinion and be allowed to express it. The fact that you disagree does not make ME ignorant
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Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 13:25
Ditto. ------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 14:03
 ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 18:02
Richard I suggest you read my post again ! 1 i personally am NOT offended by the change at all in fact I cant really recall the last time I was " offended" Exeter can do what they want the only thing that makes me sigh is the fact that they are changing their branding for one reason and that is because they are scared of offending native Americans, name any other reason? take the instance of Canterbury Crusaders in New Zealand they changed because they thought a badge they'd had for years might now offend muslims because of the tragic shootings there. See the common theme here? 2 I define woke and snowflakes as a minority of generally leftwing people who melt at the above scenarios and think they are taking some sort of moral high ground and dictate to the vast majority 3 Indian head dress and wigwams etc have NOTHING to do with rugby as I alluded to in my first paragraph by saying " never liked these stupid American football style names 4 of course the branding doesn't affect the way they play rugby, how could it , daft question really
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Posted By: oneagainstthehead
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 19:16
I don’t think Exeter are ‘scared’ of offending Native Americans, I think they’ve realised that they have, albeit unintentionally, been actually offending Native Americans for many years. All you can do in those circumstances is apologise and change - credit to Exeter for doing so. ------------- Speak softly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 19:53
| I rest my case and am going to start a campaign to remove the word "OFFENDED" from the English language just in case it offends someone🤦♂️ |
Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 20:55
Your campaign offends me.
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Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 21:04
| You just used a word that doesn't exist anymore😏 |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 21:49
How can the “generally left wing” minority “dictate” to what you regard as a “vast majority “? Are the latter somehow supine? Some guy called Farage built his political “career” on suggesting that he was speaking up for the silent majority yet he couldn’t get elected to the Commons despite multiple attempts. Exeter’s use of the Chiefs’ epithet was entirely based on the West Country usage of “chiefs” to denote “first XV” . The marketing team saw the merchandising opportunity and the tide has turned, in the USA and here. IMHO Exeter have handled the issue pretty well.
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Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2022 at 07:33
| If it wasnt for some guy called Farage we'd still be a member of the European Union Of Muppets |
Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2022 at 16:45
Wow. Not really sure we should be discussing or making comments about that here. However I am looking forward to hearing about all the good bits promised by Brexit - whenever they do actually start. I'm sure that your Supreme Leader will keep you updated.
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Posted By: HAVANT TONY
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2022 at 17:07
| Blimey ! think you need a lay down, been watching too many episodes of star trek I reckon 😂 |
Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2022 at 18:51
"If it weren't for Farage" is not a can of worms that you should wish to open, believe me. Especially if you know any truck drivers. ------------- "What I need is a strong drink and a peer group" |
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2022 at 20:30
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This thread is almost as far past its 'best-before' date as the original* 'Red Indian' theming... * original as in dreamed up by the cream of the Devonian marketing fraternity in the mid-late 90s
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Posted By: jimbojetset
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2022 at 22:59
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For those of you who think "the world has gone mad" or that we're just giving in to "woke culture" and forcing decent (let's face it) white people to stop wearing the headdress or do a tomahawk chop because it's jolly good fun, I've got a question for you. When I head home to Canada over the summer, would you like to join me and pop down to the local First Nations area in Cowichan and put your headdress on in front of the locals and perhaps show them your funky moves, maybe even show them how to a tomahawk chop properly? You could even try to explain to them how you supporting a rugby team in Exeter by dressing up in their headdresses is somehow supporting their culture (a culture you clearly don't understand at all) Or do you think it might be deemed by them to be mocking their culture? Perhaps even be seen as demeaning? Some of you need to have a word with yourselves. First Nations and Native American organisations have asked sports organisations to stop using their heritage as mascots and to cease using their imagery along with language that they find demeaning. They've spent generations being treated as 'less than' white people. This type of nonsense just perpetuates it. |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2022 at 23:01
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And on Jimbo jetsets excellent post we'll leave it there. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |