2022-23 league teams
Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forum
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: Clubhouse chat
Forum Description: For rugby related posts that fit nowhere else.. When you're ready Sandra.
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=19132
Printed Date: 20 Jun 2024 at 07:32
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 2022-23 league teams
Posted By: Gopher72
Subject: 2022-23 league teams
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2022 at 16:45
|
I have been shown the proposed new team lists for the 2022-23 season. Where can I find them please. |
Replies:
Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2022 at 16:50
| Northern RFU twitter |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2022 at 18:41
Nothing on Northern twitter ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
dropout22 wrote:Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2022 at 19:25
| Oh right - i'll see if i can still find the tweet where i saw it. |
Posted By: Red over White
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 10:08
|
Find the NORTHPREMIER1 twitter site, posted on18 March |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 10:48
|
https://twitter.com/NORTHPREMIER1/status/1504818437993996293/photo/1" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/NORTHPREMIER1/status/1504818437993996293/photo/1 ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 14:15
| Interesting fixtures, but laughable if they think Barnstaple are closer to Chester than St Albans or Bury St Edmunds |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 14:44
| And you can add a few more hours on for Redruth and Exeter. Think it's the Midlands Premier that's causing the havoc for Chester. They needed Bromsgrove and/or Bridgnorth to be in the promotion mix rather than Sheffield. Maybe Sheff going to South East and Chester staying North would make more sense. Thing is it will all change right upto the final Saturday when the exact 42 clubs will be known whereupon the RFU will press its little red button for mileages and hey presto we will all learn our fate so maybe we are huffing and puffing and stressing needlessly with all this speculation - fun though!! |
Posted By: Thunderbird
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 14:52
Interesting  Bury to Chester 218 miles Chester to Barnstaple 267 miles. But there again geography has never been a strong point of the RFU. The spanner in the works is that it looks increasingly likely that Esher will get promoted and not Redruth. Redruth to Chester 342 miles . So what Bury loose in a 750 mile round trip Chester gain. People are paid to think up this rubbish  |
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 16:17
|
You are never going to have a structure that suits everyone. You are never going to have a perfect geographical boundary line that suits everyone. Whatever is decided is guaranteed to upset someone. Just put up with it until the next reorganisation, you probably won't have to wait too long. I don't understand how you can call three regional leagues 'National'. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 16:58
| Oundle in with Tunbridge Wells!? Are they sure? Hardly shortening travel distances, this seems to be increasing them for the lower leagues! Almost like its some sort of self-sabotage |
Posted By: Dagfish
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2022 at 22:24
| Interesting that the teams currently in Midlands 1 Premier are spread across 6 different leagues in this new structure! |
Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 00:18
|
Richard. A league including both Chester and Barnstaple & or Redruth is by definition National. To support such a thing is indefensible. The whole idea of regionalised leagues is the ability to save on travel and hotel expenses, without even considering the so called “community game” is full of part time players. Then there is the issue of playing ability. Due to the imbalances the 100 point thrashings are going to return which is of no use whatsoever. Player welfare. Excess travel. Mismatched teams. Not enough meaningful home games. The lifeblood of a community club is its clubhouse and its relationship with the community it serves so more home games are what is required, not less. You say some clubs are not going to be happy, but then you effectively say “suck it up” it will change anyway. What’s the point of that? Less games, higher costs. Great business sense. The game is broken I would say, apart from National 2 North & South which are great leagues and fiercely competitive. The Championship is broken. National 1 is broken. It should not be a National League. Yet what solution do they offer? Under the premise of regionalisation they break up the only leagues (National 2 N & S) that are structured correctly in my humble opinion. ------------- I could have been a contender. |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 03:51
Thanks for that. Can anyone remind me of the commercial / business model that offers just 11 Home games for the Regional leagues? Will we see the rise of the Fixture Pool Secretary for another 5 fixtures where teams might meet each other again or nearer opposition from other Regional leagues?
------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 06:47
|
Is there not a cup competition alongside of the league? ------------- Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny! |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 09:32
|
For the 72 level 5 and the top 18 level 6 teams the cup takes the from of a 5-team pool with home or away games. So two home and two away. Then a semi-final and final. The pools are tiered, so you are guaranteed to be playing teams from other divisions, So the away trips will be long. For the remaining, 126 level 6 teams, there is a national knockout cup, with a plate for the first round losers. I am not sure if the two empty slots will be filled with level 7 clubs, or be byes. For teams below level 6, there are semi-national cups - again with a plate.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 13:53
|
Is it not time for all of the Level 4 Northern Clubs to get together and petition the RFU via the NCA for Chester to remain in the North. My Club has had this discussion with Rotherham and we agree that we must make our feelings known, on Chester's behalf. It may make no difference at all to the RFU but we must try. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 14:32
As a matter of interest what is a strong point of the RFU?
|
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 14:46
|
Sid, the time to have raised this was I am afraid May 2021 when it was first mooted that Chester would be put in the South West. Then we might have had a fighting chance of getting it changed. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 17:39
|
AND it still might not happen!! Unless my maths is wrong Promotion from Nat1 - 1 club still unknown (maybe 2 - Ealing/Donny appeal result pending) Relegation from Nat1 - Yes but who will it be? 2 clubs promoted from Nat2 - still wide open Relegation from Nat2 - None Promotion from RPM's 10 clubs, maybe 11? To date there isn't a single club from this level guaranteed promotion so it's all still guesswork Agree entirely with Camquin - time to petition well and truly passed but even if the time WAS right Sid how can you petition on the basis of what might happen? All the clubs who have been level-transferred in the past are probably chuckling in their beer at this apparent outrage. Whatever the end result there will inevitably be clubs who will be upset but sadly that's the way the cookie crumbles and if indeed it does turn out to be Chester heading South West then so be it
|
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 18:28
|
PifPaff, myself and others have been venting on this board about the problems with the reorg. I also sent the working group my thoughts about what was wrong with the plan. I know clubs are run by volunteers and there are 101 other things to do, but every club should have read the reports and sent comments in. Chester going South is not the worst case. it is likely that one of the Sheffield clubs will also need to go South as well - though I think that needs Leeds to come down. What happens if three Northern clubs are relegated from National 1 next season, That could see both Sheffield clubs and Rotherham playing in the South. You cannot set up the rules assuming the best case will happen, you have to be able to cope with the worst case. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 19:25
|
Indeed CQ, its like no one in RFU Comps wants to listen and the FCS "commission" have adopted a "We'll carry on regardless" stance. In other words they will implement a re-org that no majority wanted in the 1st place. This was supposed to be the grand reset to flatten the pyramid. All they've done is re-arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic. If they stick to their original published document these changes will run for 3 years before they even look at tweaking it. Some clubs by that stage could be short of a few quid and a lot of players as the modern day semi-pro/amateur player doesn't want to spend all of his Saturday travelling to far flung places for a game. ------------- Crouch, Bind, Tweet! |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 22:25
So, we should do nothing? Also, 'venting' on this forum is not going to change anything. Clubs petitioning the RFU via the NCA will at least let them know our view/opinion. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 23:13
|
Well, you have done nothing for a year, why change the habits of a lifetime. I at least wrote to the RFU with the issues I have raised here, and was ignored. I suggested to everyone on here to write to make sure the RFU heard our views, did you do that? Did you even read the report, before last week? If you had, then at every match, you would have been say, this is our last season in the North, and you might have already gathered support. I am not on my club committee, so they will not petition the RFU
based on my views, and I believe our DoR thinks that cutting to level 3
to 14 teams is not a bad idea. Which is the problem. The National 1 clubs are not badly affected, so they have been acquiescent. The level 5 and 6 clubs might have less travel in the league. And they see the cup as an adventure, even though it means more travel The level 4 clubs in the Northern division probably see less travel, as will those in the South, Redruth will see a lot less travel, even if they go to Chester. So it is really only Chester, and possibly a Sheffield club, that gets
shafted. Newport may only be swapping a tip to Tynedale for one to
Barnstaple - though Redruth is another 100 miles. Which goes some way to explain why it is hard to get clubs together to petition on this. The campaigns that have won are those to keep National 1 as a National league - which I understand came from the clubs against the wishes of the RFU - and the local fights to keep 2nd XVs out of the ECC, which reduces the ability to reduce travel in the lower leagues. The way to keep Chester in the North, is to say to Blackburn, I am sorry you do not get promoted this season. And we can not guarantee how many sides will be promoted next season, as if too many Northern sides are relegated from National 1, there might not be room. Are you sure they would back you? It is divide and conquer.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2022 at 23:59
|
Camquin, it was a near unanimous view of NCA DoRs that Theur Leagues should be cut to 14 teams from 16. Steve Hill from Richmond carried out the survey. The 3 Leagues at Level 4 was initially kicked out by the NCA but was carried by the votes of the CBs. If they were anything like my own then ambitious Clubs at Level 6/7 saw expansion as their best chance of promotion - thus it succeeded. There is an underlying move here, IMHO, to break away from the Divisional structure which is itself flawed, and also to move away from the Level Transfer approach. Personally, I’m hoping Esher get promoted but will then feel,sorry for Chester. Geography is a pain, for example in 2018 Esher’s Christmas Derby match was away to Plymouth as that year in National 1 we were the closest club to Plymouth! Unless we can detach Devon and Cornwall and reposition them, problems will continue.
|
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 08:07
|
[QUOTE=Camquin] Well, you have done nothing for a year, why change the habits of a lifetime. I at least wrote to the RFU with the issues I have raised here, and was ignored. I suggested to everyone on here to write to make sure the RFU heard our views, did you do that? Did you even read the report, before last week? If you had, then at every match, you would have been say, this is our last season in the North, and you might have already gathered support. [QUOTE] Lets not make this about what you or I have done personally. You have no idea what I have done or what my habits are and I have no desire to know yours. Your comment "this is our last season in the North" suggests that you think I follow Chester, I do not. Anyway, my forum posting yesterday was about rallying the Northern Clubs to get behind Chester and all I get is a mouth full of me, me ,me from Cambridge. I can see we will need to do this elsewhere. We are looking at a Northern Club being sent South which abhorrent. ------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 08:26
| We've known that a restructure is impending for at least two years, and, as Camquin says, the rumours about Chester initially surfaced 12 months ago. Why are people getting on their high horse now when they've had a year to try to persuade the powers-that-be to do something? It's too late to do anything now, either here or elsewhere. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 09:19
|
Sid You seem to forget that Nat2 North comprises of the North AND Midlands regions. The Midlands Region has suffered perennially with Level-transfers south - Hinckley, Leicester Lions, Birmingham/Solihull the most recent but I didn't hear any Northern clubs claiming "outrage"?? The real problem is a log-jam of Northern clubs at Level 4, none of whom seem capable of making the jump to Nat1 Surely if 80% of clubs will have less travelling but 20% have more then surely that is mission accomplished?? (80/20 is just my guesstimate obviously) We (Newport) could well clinch promotion to Level 4 on Saturday and guess what - yes we will be heading South (not North as we should by virtue of being a Midlands club) We're only 40 miles better off than Chester but the general feeling is that we are happy to go South West |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 10:23
Quite right. Newport to the Bristol/ Gloucester area isn’t too bad. And treat your possible trip to Redruth as something to relish; a great club with big crowds.
|
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 12:33
Yes but, Chester is a Northen Club and they are not happy with heading south, hence our support.
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 12:48
| Very few clubs ARE happy about being Level-transferred so why should Chester be an exception and be spared? You can launch as many appeals as you like but if the RFU mileages say Chester then Chester it will be. Personally I think when the dust settles they will be staying North but at the mo we're all guessing |
Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 17:06
|
Some of the people on here are well suited to the RFU. A complete joke. Full of I’m alright Jacks. Am totally with Sid on this. ------------- I could have been a contender. |
Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 17:18
|
That Bloke wrote: “The real problem is a log-jam of Northern clubs at Level 4, none of whom seem capable of making the jump to Nat1” I would wager Roth, Hull and Sedge would beat any of the teams in Nat 2 South and all hold their own in Nat 1. All are likely to gain more points than any of the Southern teams. If the RFU did their jobs properly and included Nat 1 in the restructure then there might not be as many Northern Clubs at level 4. They are not even allowing a play off this year yet, last time they promoted a team without having a play off and relegated us. Guess what - the team promoted without a play off is bottom of Nat 1. It is decided by kangaroo court. ------------- I could have been a contender. |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2022 at 17:26
| Well we'll soon find out because one of those 3 will be making the step up to Nat1. As regards to "those 3 would beat any team in Nat2 South" is pure speculation. The facts state, however, that play-offs have almost always gone in favour of the Southern team hence the "log-jam" I referred to. |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 12:44
Correct, the log jam is also caused by the number of northern teams coming down from Nat1 over the past few years being higher than those from the South. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 12:46
Just because the 3 teams at top of Nat2N will end up with more points than those at the top of Nat2S doesn't mean they are better - could just be the fact that with the exception of a couple of teams Nat2S has more good teams than Nat2N ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 13:41
Or, there could be a lot of mediocre teams in N2S who all struggle to beat each other. Who cares. The reason that Clubs in the South are more successful and field more teams is a question of greater available resources, which are attracted south by more opportunities for jobs/careers etc but, let's not get into politics.
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 17:43
Tell the residents of Redruth and Camborne that there are more career opportunities. Extraordinary.
|
Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 19:36
Good point.
|
Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 22:49
Great point. Hadn't noticed Redruth and Camborne in Nat 1. recently. Never heard of London then?
------------- All Knwoing All Seeing |
Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2022 at 23:03
|
There is a big difference between “The South” and “London”. Devon and Cornwall, Somerset even, are more similar to Northumbria and Cumbria than they are to Surrey and Hertfordshire. We are lucky to be based near London and to be able to rely on players developed by other Clubs and not just on our own. That said, good luck to Esher Colts playing Cobham in the Final of the Quins Cup on Sunday.
|
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2022 at 13:35
They aren't currently in N1 although Redruth could possibly be next season - as for London the daily commute would take longer than the working day  ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 12:10
| So, what do people estimate will be the final league makeups? |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 13:26
|
I put maps in the other thread. National 1 Birmingham Moseley Bishops Stortford Cambridge Chinnor Cinderford Darlington Mowden Park Esher* - promoted from Nat2 South Hull - promoted from Nat 2 North Leeds Tykes* Plymouth Albion Rams Rosslyn Park Sale FC Taunton North Blaydon Rugby Club Chester Rugby Union Football Club Fylde Rugby Club Harrogate Rugby Club Huddersfield Rugby Club Hull Ionians Otley Rugby Club - promoted from North Premier Preston Grasshoppers Rugby Club - promoted from North Premier Rotherham Rugby Club Sedgley Park Rugby Club Sheffield Rugby Club - promoted from Midlands Premier Sheffield Tigers Rugby Club Tynedale Rugby Club Wharfedale Rugby Club West Barnstaple Bournville Clifton Dings Crusaders Exeter university - promoted from South West Premier Hinckley Hornets - promoted from South West Premier Leicester Lions Loughborough University Luctonians Newport - promoted from Midlands Premier Old Redcliffians - promoted from South West Premier Redruth* Stourbridge East Barnes Blackheath - relegated from National 1* Bury St Edmunds Canterbury Dorking - promoted from London Premier Guernsey Henley North Walsham - promoted from London Premier Old Albanian Rochford Hundred Sevenoaks - promoted from London Premier Tonbridge Juddians - relegated from National 1 Westcliff Worthing Bear in mind, Blackheath could still get ahead of Leeds, and Redruth could overtake Esher.
------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Tyke
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2022 at 13:36
|
I suspect there has been a massive increase in the sale of prayer mats in the Twickenham area of late, Esher overtaking Redruth and probably moving to N1 changed the scenario in the "Straw Man" example circulated by HQ in March. If Leeds can complete their escape and Esher do gain promotion, then Blackheath slot nicely into South, Redruth go into West and Chester can move into North. Cue prayers and supplications on Leeds behalf from TW2 plus a sudden interest in flat caps, whippet racing and beer with a head on it!!! ------------- If only Webb-Ellis hadn't given them the ball back! |