Splitting the League
Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forum
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: National 1
Forum Description: Discuss the 14 clubs in the third level of the English game
URL: http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=20093
Printed Date: 24 May 2024 at 06:05
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Splitting the League
Posted By: Richard Lowther
Subject: Splitting the League
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 11:21
|
------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Replies:
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 13:15
| Some folk don't like change, as a new close follower of the Nat 1 league I'm not really in a position to comment, but it does seem to work as is, the only thing that might be an argument is reducing the miles travelled. |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 13:21
Chinnor could well end up as the Southern most part of a northern league. There are 6 (?) clubs south of them at present. Cinderford north or south of Thame? |
Richard Lowther wrote:Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 14:02
But why? The leagues would have to be rejigged to make two viable leagues of 12/14/whatever and these logically be split around the Midlands. The other impact is the rejigged Premiership 2 and that could see 'quality' teams demoted strengthening the leagues rather than diluting it as per Easter's prediction. ------------- Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards Remember Wakefield RFC |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 16:49
|
Even fit the RFU find fourteen franchises to compete in Premiership II, they are unlikely to include any Championship sides. So the Championship will remain a national league, probably with 14 teams in it - and possibly with a new brand. Whether we need another national league underneath it, or two divisions, or perhaps three or four, should be looked at - but it needs to be part of a coherent league structure. We have seen what happens if you try and fix it on the back of a fag packet. You get the Papa John Cups. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 16:53
|
I promised myself I wasn’t going to get angry but this makes my blood boil. There is absolutely no need to split National 1 it makes absolutely no sense. Last season when we were in N2E we had all the local derbies you are talking about but our experience was a loss in 200-300 each week in crowds I don’t think we ever got above 500 despite playing 7oaks and TJs both within 20 miles. Getting back in N1 after the RWC and we are starting to see the crowds return. Why are they trying to fix something that isn’t broken. N1 is a brilliant competitive league with excellent standards. Tell them to Foxtrot Oscar ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 19:22
| You have to go national at some point and 1 before the second tier seems the right place for it to be. Tell them to leave it alone. They already made a mess of N2 by getting rid of playoffs just to cut down on travel times by splitting leagues. I don't trust them to fare any better if they try to split N1. |
Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 09:54
|
In Football, both Gloucester City and Bishop's Stortford are National League North, and Oxford City were in the North for three season. If the RFU decides to split National League One, then there is a good chance two from Chinnor, Bishop's Stortford and Cinderford would have to go North. There are currently 5 "Northern" teams in National League One. If 15 sides need to be promoted from the 3 National League Twos, 7 sides in the current top 5s would be "Northern" so to make a 14 team league, 2 sides would have to move to the North ( although that could also be Bury St Edmunds or Dings ! )
|
Posted By: WILD BOAR 1
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 09:37
|
Have not read this article yet, but if it does happen is it next season or 25/26? I think that the Nat 1 title is Chinnor's to lose so they might not be involved if 24/25.
|
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 16:10
|
You have to be National at the top. And you have to have local, or county, leagues at the bottom. The difficult bit is coming up with a coherent structure in the middle that annoys the fewest people. Especially as within any single club, there will be multiple views of where the club ought to be playing. Any survey you do will find evidence in support of any thesis - especially if you ignore the other voices. One sacred cow I would ask, is does rugby have to be 15-a-sdie from September to May? Is there demand for other forms, 7s, touch etc, - either instead of, or alongside 15s in the spring. I have to say that while I quite liked going to the old Middlesex 7s final, one day is enough for me. However, you could imagine a national tournament, with qualifying rounds leading to a finals day at HQ for the top 16 teams. If
there is demand, the big question is, should that be in April and May -
shortening the XV-a-side season, or over summer, effectively extending
the season. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 17:27
With you on 7s - but when? Rock hard in summer. Pitch has alternative uses over the summer to maximise income. ------------- "My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts." |
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 18:36
|
Only a personal view but hated playing "7's", can't stand watching it - why it is an Olympic event - God only knows, well actually I do, not long enough to stage a proper event- we don't have 5-a-side football in there though do we? If there's any "7's"on anywhere, any time I would rather go for a walk with a stone in my shoe!
|
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 18:53
I think you might be wrong on every point made but I happen to agree with every word you said, 7's really does nothing for me either.
 |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 18:54
| Splitting the league is counter productive and rather pointless.........................................given the past history, it's bound to happen then. |
Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2023 at 09:59
|
On reading many things on this site from a lot of people who have been around the game for sometime and know what they are talking about. I cannot for the life of me understand why, with the backing of member clubs, Sweeney and his over paid employed gang have not been called to task over the running of the game. The RFU are judge, jury and executioner on everything, but they are very clearly not fit for purpose. Nobody has any interest in Prem II, The Champ sides made that very clear. The RFU have no interest in the club game, just as long as he ( Sweeney) gets his £650k a year and his list of henchmen and women he's surrounded himself with are all on north of £300k, they could not careless what happens at Caldy in the Champ or an Old Boys club in counties 7. The best rugby league in the ladder in National 1 and now they want to mess about with it.Why? what experience do they have to say its not working They have done that at level 4 by making that 3 leagues, which, and its my view, was very wrong, it should have stayed at 2...with a play off So Its time the clubs at the grass roots of this game, and Im talking Champ downwards to take this by the scruff of the neck and said enough. We are fed up being walked all over by a team of people that are clueless about the club game Because if they do not, outside the Prem, this game will collapse. There are some very well educated people that read Rolling Maul... I would said it would be less than a month before you have enough votes to call and EGM and take these clowns at Twickenham to task and have a sea of change and regain control of the game... Not let the like of Wasps and Worcester go bust with 10's of millions of pounds of debt and say, its ok lads we will get you back in Prem II. The NCA is fast becoming a puppet |
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2023 at 20:47
|
I thought the idea of splitting N1 into 2 leagues had been dropped? There was no need to split N2 into 3, overall standard has dropped, but that didn't stop the RFU. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 11:23
| It seems easy for the southern clubs to say splitting up National 1 is pointless. Teams such a Darlington MP have only two localish fixtures Sedgley Park and Sale....still 3hrs away by coach. The cost of travel and hotels for northern clubs is very high. Splitting the league could drastically cut costs. But if you end up with 2 smaller leagues....less home games....reduction in revenue! not easy! |
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 11:26
|
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 11:45
|
Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale. Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley. Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....
|
Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 12:31
|
Just as an aside. Last night I was speaking with one of our injured players and he was so keen to get back for next weeks away day to DMP as he said “I love the long away days as the return trips with your mates is a big part of playing at this level” this is not the first time I have been told this. Plus you have promoted 9 teams into N1 north and 3 into south plus relegated Cambridge. I think that unbalance the standard between North & South. As I’ve already said it doesn’t need split. And where does the new Prem 2 franchise sit and the current L2 teams that don’t want to sell their souls ------------- So many Christians not enough Lions |
Posted By: WILD BOAR 1
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 12:31
|
Toulouse it will of course be Nat 1 South and you appear to have missed Lucs/Dings etc. As it stands Cambridge will be in the Championship and Chinnor promoted. Unsure if there is a split it will be next season or 25/26?
|
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 12:35
|
Travel is always more of an issue for Darlington, or Redruth, than for Chinnor or Cambridge. Looking at that list, how are the mighty fallen, no Cornish sides ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 12:36
So National 1 North is 5 clubs from current National 1, 7 from Nat 2 National 2 South is 1 current Championship side, 9 current National 1 sides, and 4 from Nat 2. I'm not sure that addresses the 'dilution of standards' point terribly well if I'm being brutally honest.
------------- keep the faith |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 13:16
|
At present, there is no intention to reduce the Championship below 12. So Cambridge and probably one of Chinnor/Rams will play there. So were it to come in next season, it would probably be 5+9 and 7+7. I am not sure how we arrange promotion and relegation between two and three leagues - assuming we keep three leagues at level 3. However, we have no idea what will happen in 2025 - after RFU bring in Premiership 2. It might be better to delay a major reorganisation until then. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 14:57
| If the RFU carry out the threat and relegate all the championship sides(there may be one or two who might take the RFU's poisoned silver), then there is a whole new ball game to be played. Another classic situation where businesses cannot conduct their business because the RFU are giving no information in a timely manner as to what the hell is going on, farce doesn't really cover it. |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 15:49
|
I believe that is for the 2025 season. Which is why I would not try to make changes this year. But if I were in charge, I would be seeking feedback on the new league and cup structure ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Nat1
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 16:46
|
Change is afoot, but won't be noticeable until the 2025-26 season. Prem 2 will become a reality, and will be stocked by the likes of Ealing, Donny, Cov and Pirates. Alongside these professional 'former' Champ clubs will be the new franchise clubs and/or Welsh/Scottish clubs making up the numbers. The likes of Notts, Ampthill, Bedford, Scottish, Cambridge, Caldy will revert to what we currently know as National 1, alongside the other semi-pro teams of similar size and scope. The cascading effects will shunt those who lie near the bottom down a league and so on. Whether these leagues are split 2 or 3 ways is anyone's guess at this stage. The RFU have had enough of a ramshackle second tier in English rugby that they can't control or quantify. Like it or not, they see the future of the Premiership (and Prem 2) being solely the domain of professionals outfits, able to attract TV coverage, meaningful sponsorship and thereby filling their coffers.
|
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 17:16
I agree with your point....it's not going to be easy and it will not please everyone!
|
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 17:18
Typo...National 1 south
|
Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 01:02
*Blaydon? Regardless the league would not be competitive as 90% of the clubs proposed in North are part time players enjoying Rugby. And there could be a health and wellbeing aspect with them playing against semi pros, or pros when you include there community rugby coaching roles. Not sure it’s a good idea at all in truth
|
Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 07:25
the current Champ involves part-time v semi-pro v full-time and works ok without major health/wellbeing concerns; but clearly there are clubs on the list above who would need to devote more attention/investment on ensuring their p/t players were adequately conditioned...
|
Posted By: cheshire exile
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 09:27
Can you explain your last comment? Redruth have been joined in Nat2 West this season by Camborne and of course Pirates have been at level 2 for years.
|
Posted By: WILD BOAR 1
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 09:39
| Tend to agree with much of Nat 1's post....are you in the know??? |
Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 10:31
|
I remember when Redruth were National 1 along with Launceston. And there was Mount's Bay. So I would have expected one or two to make the expanded Nat 1. ------------- Sweeney Delenda Est |
Posted By: Paul10
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 10:36
Same. That does seem the logical conclusion.
|
Posted By: Se7en
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 13:36
| Yes I agree also. A far more balanced idea to have those clubs back in a national league with other semi pro sides and leaving the fully pro elite game to it in Prem and Prem II. You can but hope. |
Posted By: Red over White
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 11:32
|
Assuming Dudley in Nat 1 North is Dudley Kingswingford. Not sure how they made it in given that Sheffield Tigers are higher than DK in their respective leagues.
|
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 15:55
This split ends up with a southern section far stronger than the northern equivalent. Judging by how N2 has always been split, you need to take the strongest 28 teams nationwide then put the 14 most northern into the North section, the rest into the south. Dudley are in the bottom 2 of N2W and someone suggested Blaydon who aren't even in N2. The main problem is the same as the current N1 where the majority of the clubs are in the south. ------------- RAID ON |
Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 16:45
| I don't think I have laughed so much for a while, there's some comedians posting some of this stuff, thanks. lol |
Posted By: Toulouse
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 16:47
|