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Stalwart View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 11:36
Slightly off topic, and I apologise in advance . Regarding local derbies - Penzance and Newlyn were separate clubs until 1945 (amalgamated partly as so many men were lost in the war). So the local derby before that was PZ v Newlyn. The games were pretty brutal and riots ensued on occasion! When the clubs amalgamated The Pirates were slightly left out on a limb for derby games. The nearest clubs were Hayle and St Ives, who play each other. Camborne play Redruth, so we ended up with the Boxing Day derby being against Truro - which is 28 miles away. When we began our ascent up the leagues Launceston were pretty successful and were in the same league as us for a few seasons, so that was the derby game - Launceston is right on the Devon border (70 miles from PZ). Then it was Plymouth Albion (80 miles from PZ). Then Bristol. Now the nearest club as the crow flies is probably Jersey, and then Hartpury in Gloucestershire!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 11:09
Originally posted by Bartman Bartman wrote:

Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Spare a thought for us in Penzance! 

We used to have some tasty local rivalries but unfortunately two (Bristol & Exeter) got promoted and two (Launceton & Plymouth Albion) got relegated. Most inconsiderate of themWink
Bristol?  Local to Penzance?  In which universe?

It's as local as it gets, a mere 3 hours from PZ.

Not this time of year more like 5 by car and its always been between 4.15 to 5.30 by train. Been there an done that many times, good drinking time though by train.LOL
I’ve always thought the Penzance local derby was with Rennes or Neath. Both seem closer as the crow flies than Bristol!😂😂
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 10:12
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Spare a thought for us in Penzance! 

We used to have some tasty local rivalries but unfortunately two (Bristol & Exeter) got promoted and two (Launceton & Plymouth Albion) got relegated. Most inconsiderate of themWink
Bristol?  Local to Penzance?  In which universe?

It's as local as it gets, a mere 3 hours from PZ.

Not this time of year more like 5 by car and its always been between 4.15 to 5.30 by train. Been there an done that many times, good drinking time though by train.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 20:38
Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Spare a thought for us in Penzance! 

We used to have some tasty local rivalries but unfortunately two (Bristol & Exeter) got promoted and two (Launceton & Plymouth Albion) got relegated. Most inconsiderate of themWink
Bristol?  Local to Penzance?  In which universe?

It's as local as it gets, a mere 3 hours from PZ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJB1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 18:47
Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Spare a thought for us in Penzance! 

We used to have some tasty local rivalries but unfortunately two (Bristol & Exeter) got promoted and two (Launceton & Plymouth Albion) got relegated. Most inconsiderate of themWink
Bristol?  Local to Penzance?  In which universe?
"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 09:27
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Spare a thought for us in Penzance! 

We used to have some tasty local rivalries but unfortunately two (Bristol & Exeter) got promoted and two (Launceton & Plymouth Albion) got relegated. Most inconsiderate of themWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 18:36
Spare a thought for us in Penzance! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 16:18
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The problem with local derbies is finding then.
Either the rival is in your league - when you will be playing them. Bedford v Ampthill.
Or not - in which case it is likely to be a mis-match.
Cambridge v Shelford would be a big draw, if it were competitive. So the season we were both in Nat 2S it was a goldmine for the two clubs.
But cambridge got promoted and Shelford were relegated.
And now it is a three league gap - Level 3 against level 6.

Or they are strange, two seasons ago in National 1 Esher's local derby was away to Plymouth on the basis that we were the nearest Club to Plymouth!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 15:36
Originally posted by kempstonblue kempstonblue wrote:

Cambridge and Bishops Stortford?


Hardly a local derby, there's no history. Both Bury St Edmunds and especially Shelford would be local derbies, but Cambridge v Shelford is war 😂! 
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 12:48
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The problem with local derbies is finding then.
Either the rival is in your league - when you will be playing them. Bedford v Ampthill.
Or not - in which case it is likely to be a mis-match.
Cambridge v Shelford would be a big draw, if it were competitive. So the season we were both in Nat 2S it was a goldmine for the two clubs.
But cambridge got promoted and Shelford were relegated.
And now it is a three league gap - Level 3 against level 6.

Guess the powers that be, if you had to play a local rival would choose Cambridge and Bishops Stortford?


Looking forward to new beginnings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 12:45
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by kempstonblue kempstonblue wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

The (normal- pandemic excepted) club season (excluding pre season friendlies) is 35 weeks, from the beginning of September to the last week of April. You then have a window for County games in the five weeks of May. 

The proposed idea is only 16 of these 35 weeks will be used.  If you accept one weekend a month as a 'rest/bad weather/Christmas/Easter off/watch the internationals at HQ' then you lose another 8 weeks, leaving 27 potential game weekends. 11 of these are still going to be spare. 

As a club treasurer I would be asking what we do about those 11 weeks - potentially 5 or 6 home games without a first team fixture and there the bulk of club income. 

What solutions spring to mind? One is games against local rivals who aren't in the new league; these are usually good for increasing the gate. But that idea only works if your rivals are in a league where there are also spare weekends which match up with your spare weekends - easier said than done. 

A similar idea would be to go back to the 'Easter' tours of old and have something different for your players and supporters. 

Second would be a form of cup competition - either within the league or outside it, such as a return to competing in County Cups for some teams.  However the traditional cup formats do not guarantee above one fixture - and no guarantee that will be at home. So you bring in a convoluted pool system and defeat the original point - However, if the consensus is 'less is better quality', why schedule any other games - just book the club treasurer a hospital bed now to recover from the shock. 

Are you suggesting Christmas off?
Boxing Day home matches at Bedford are often the highest attendance of the season.
Last two years we had Ampthill in friendly and league.

Although I appreciate at lower levels it is time off, and if the league is amateur then raising teams might be a problem. But even in the 1980s Bedford, Boxing Day was Old Paulines matches.

Personally no, I'm putting forward reasons for the lack of fixtures under this bananas of an idea. 



Thanks. It was clarifying, I know below Championship no league matches are played. 
If, big if, the season doesn’t begin until January I hope clubs play friendlies over the festive season.

I earlier suggested 16 team Championship and National 1. Some ideas maybe 14 team.
So 14 teams, each conference 7 sides, 12 matches + 7. Would that mean half the clubs have 10 home games, the others 9?

agree too few fixtures is a real Banaba skin.
Looking forward to new beginnings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 12:41
The problem with local derbies is finding then.
Either the rival is in your league - when you will be playing them. Bedford v Ampthill.
Or not - in which case it is likely to be a mis-match.
Cambridge v Shelford would be a big draw, if it were competitive. So the season we were both in Nat 2S it was a goldmine for the two clubs.
But cambridge got promoted and Shelford were relegated.
And now it is a three league gap - Level 3 against level 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 12:37
Take Worcester for example. In the fully completed 2018/19 season they played 3 preseason friendlies, 22 Premiership games, 7 European games and 5 Premiership Cup games. 

34 competitive fixtures. Yet we are told less is better and the Championship clubs are expected to play LESS than HALF that number of fixtures and remain financially viable doing so. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 12:27
Originally posted by kempstonblue kempstonblue wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

The (normal- pandemic excepted) club season (excluding pre season friendlies) is 35 weeks, from the beginning of September to the last week of April. You then have a window for County games in the five weeks of May. 

The proposed idea is only 16 of these 35 weeks will be used.  If you accept one weekend a month as a 'rest/bad weather/Christmas/Easter off/watch the internationals at HQ' then you lose another 8 weeks, leaving 27 potential game weekends. 11 of these are still going to be spare. 

As a club treasurer I would be asking what we do about those 11 weeks - potentially 5 or 6 home games without a first team fixture and there the bulk of club income. 

What solutions spring to mind? One is games against local rivals who aren't in the new league; these are usually good for increasing the gate. But that idea only works if your rivals are in a league where there are also spare weekends which match up with your spare weekends - easier said than done. 

A similar idea would be to go back to the 'Easter' tours of old and have something different for your players and supporters. 

Second would be a form of cup competition - either within the league or outside it, such as a return to competing in County Cups for some teams.  However the traditional cup formats do not guarantee above one fixture - and no guarantee that will be at home. So you bring in a convoluted pool system and defeat the original point - However, if the consensus is 'less is better quality', why schedule any other games - just book the club treasurer a hospital bed now to recover from the shock. 

Are you suggesting Christmas off?
Boxing Day home matches at Bedford are often the highest attendance of the season.
Last two years we had Ampthill in friendly and league.

Although I appreciate at lower levels it is time off, and if the league is amateur then raising teams might be a problem. But even in the 1980s Bedford, Boxing Day was Old Paulines matches.

Personally no, I'm putting forward reasons for the lack of fixtures under this bananas of an idea. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 09:37
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

The (normal- pandemic excepted) club season (excluding pre season friendlies) is 35 weeks, from the beginning of September to the last week of April. You then have a window for County games in the five weeks of May. 

The proposed idea is only 16 of these 35 weeks will be used.  If you accept one weekend a month as a 'rest/bad weather/Christmas/Easter off/watch the internationals at HQ' then you lose another 8 weeks, leaving 27 potential game weekends. 11 of these are still going to be spare. 

As a club treasurer I would be asking what we do about those 11 weeks - potentially 5 or 6 home games without a first team fixture and there the bulk of club income. 

What solutions spring to mind? One is games against local rivals who aren't in the new league; these are usually good for increasing the gate. But that idea only works if your rivals are in a league where there are also spare weekends which match up with your spare weekends - easier said than done. 

A similar idea would be to go back to the 'Easter' tours of old and have something different for your players and supporters. 

Second would be a form of cup competition - either within the league or outside it, such as a return to competing in County Cups for some teams.  However the traditional cup formats do not guarantee above one fixture - and no guarantee that will be at home. So you bring in a convoluted pool system and defeat the original point - However, if the consensus is 'less is better quality', why schedule any other games - just book the club treasurer a hospital bed now to recover from the shock. 

Are you suggesting Christmas off?
Boxing Day home matches at Bedford are often the highest attendance of the season.
Last two years we had Ampthill in friendly and league.

Although I appreciate at lower levels it is time off, and if the league is amateur then raising teams might be a problem. But even in the 1980s Bedford, Boxing Day was Old Paulines matches.
Looking forward to new beginnings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopping Mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 17:46
Camquin, I agree in the main but minimum criteria need to be across clubs not just applied to 1st XV (although the majority would be required to house crowds of any size).

From a game that has always been about participation to one that now needs to meet the needs of spectators, it is unacceptable to not invest in both.

Clearly some clubs would be able to grow club wide participation better than others for instance but that shouldn’t mean there isn’t responsibilities for all to promote the game. As was said, clubs can run community schemes if running a range of rugby is not their preferred approach.

But simply expecting some clubs to be the real grassroots of the game with the associated costs but absolving others of this isn’t really going to wash if we are all part of the same “heartland/community” league structure. 


Edited by Hopping Mad - 23 Jul 2020 at 17:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 17:34
Yes but outside the 13 Premiership sides there are only 8 clubs that can regularly attract more than 1,000 people to their games.

Indeed only Coventry, Cornish and Bedford got 1,000 to every game.

Lets not put unnecessary financial requirements on clubs - especially at this time.
Why would Preston need a stand for 500 when only 300 turn up to most games.

Frankly if they ring fence the premiership - then the desire to buy promotion will become less, as that faint hope of doing an Exeter will have been taken away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopping Mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 17:00
Totally agree BE. Minimum criteria a must. Behaviours must be challenged. 

Edited by Hopping Mad - 23 Jul 2020 at 17:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 15:41
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:


I think the Championship should take heed of both of those lines and go to a 14 team League with minimum standards, including seating for 500+ and other facilities, particularly widely-spaced urinals!


To be honest, I think that goes for National 1 too - that and floodlights. No team should be in a national league without a grandstand*, catering, and the ability to light their pitch

*I say this as someone who chooses/prefers to stand




Tonbridge Juddians will be an experience for you then!


No more so than some who are already up here. TBH I've got no issues with the teams who have totally properly come up the leagues under the rules as they stand. I've got more of an issue with the rules... It's not TJ's fault they haven't been forced to do more lower down - looking forward to going down there in due course.


There used to be a minimum standard in 2008 when we moved to Lady Bay we had to have lighting up to certain level stand for 500 and various other improvements . It wasa right pain so presumably they have been forgotten since
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 15:40
The FA standards are clearly set out and well known and increase with each step on the pyramid.

The NCA standards are limited in that they simply requre

- a minimum size pitch,
- a barrier from the field of play,
- minimum standards for lights - if they are present
- provision of changing facilities.

There are detailed rules about who is permitted in the technical area. However, nobody is given the duty to police these and I have never seen them enforced. 

I believe lights are meant to be certified at least every three years.
But they are not a requirment, so if you fail you can I believe simply state you have no lights.
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