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Worcester winding up order |
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6631 |
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The International game is financially viable and attracts good TV audiences but the elite club game in itself isn't. It lives off the shirt tails of the money raised at Twickenham by the RFU. * They should do all the things you say but won't as some owners have big egos and deep pockets. * As Twickenham should be the games cash cow it makes no sense playing in Football stadiums and taking money out of the game.
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Camquin ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 11988 |
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Which is also the case in Cricket - which is also having to look at how it organizes the professional game, especially balancing the stress on the top professionals and the income of the clubs (counties). It is not rocket science to know that if your total income is £10m, you cannot spend £10m on playing wages. But there is the feeling that "something will turn up" or rather, if only we can win the European Cup, there will be a big upturn in support, so let's hire in another South African prop ...
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Sweeney Delenda Est
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Greg ![]() First XV regular ![]() Joined: 30 Jan 2020 Location: Norfolk Status: Offline Points: 111 |
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Oh how the RFU are wringing their hands.
Oh how the Premiership Club owners are bleating about their plight.
This situation has been a long time coming and it probably hasn't finished yet. These guys have spent money they didn't have and have misspent money they were given. And there is no health in them (apologies to the Book of Common Prayer). Rugby Union is a relatively minor sport and needs to face up the fact that it cannot spend money it simply doesn't, and never will, have. There is still a lot of playing and watching support for the 'grassroots game' (Championship downwards) but it will never generate the level of financial support to fund the sort of crazy lifestyle demonstrated by Premiership Rugby. |
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Mark W-J ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3748 |
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There's also a belief that the Premiership is the only place to be. These clubs would much rather lose £4m per annum in the Premiership than lose £1m in the Championship. It's easy to be sympathetic to the players, staff and supporters of Worcester, but if you'd suggested to them three or four years ago that they'd be better off following the Bedford/ Pirates/ Donny/ Jersey (take your pick) model, they'd all have told you to Foxtrot Oscar.
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jimbojetset ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Oct 2017 Location: sale Status: Offline Points: 450 |
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There is definitely a disconnect between what is being spent and what teams can afford to spend. Let's not forget though, that this is the same at Semi-pro level as well. How diversified is the revenue each club in the top three leagues?
How many of them rely on too few revenue streams creating an incredibly internal fragile ecosystem. Some 2nd/3rd tier clubs might not be losing a £1m per annum but if one sponsor drops dead (or goes out of business) how sustainable are they from that point onward? The ripple effect of that can be seen in National One last season where a team dropped out at the last moment creating a situation where all teams had one less home game to generate revenue, Rotherham should have gone back up, but the team in question had left it too late to allow that. |
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Rabbie Burns ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3414 |
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Sorry JJS little misguided there, when the club could no longer putout a side it would have been grossly unfair to suddenly expect Roth to jump back up to Nat 1 with the costs that this would have incurred. The team withdrew after the deadline so the rules are clear that the league runs one team short.
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So many Christians not enough Lions
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Rabbie Burns ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3414 |
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Sorry JJS but bringing Roth back up would have been a double kick in the teeth for us. We lost our biggest gate of the season with a a huge turnover that went with it, our closest travel with no cost to swap for a trip to Roth. The rules are fairly clear if a team withdraws after a certain date the league runs 1 team short
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So many Christians not enough Lions
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jimbojetset ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Oct 2017 Location: sale Status: Offline Points: 450 |
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Totally agree. I wasn't suggesting that is what should have happened. What should have happened is that OE's should have withdrawn when they knew they didn't have a chance of raising the money sustainably, which would have given Rotherham more of a chance to put a team out.
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jimbojetset ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Oct 2017 Location: sale Status: Offline Points: 450 |
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And for the teams in the north who Rotherham was their closest game? A kick in the teeth for your club if they'd come back up, but a bonus for Sale, Caldy, Leeds and DMP if they'd been put back up. This is what I mean by ripple effect of one team dropping out. The rules are clear, it's just a shame that given that pretty much everyone knew they didn't have the resources/funding to raise a team that they couldn't have done it earlier. However, my point wasn't really about that one instance, my point is, it is a fragile ecosystem where teams rely on one gate, one sponsor, one event to make sure they survive.
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Rabbie Burns ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3414 |
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I think JJS it’s pretty much the same argument. If the RFU was more proactive on finances then the situation may not have happened but how far down the pyramid should it go and who does the policing.
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So many Christians not enough Lions
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Big Eddie ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5086 |
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..........and that is why the Premiership doesn't work Jimbo Lad. I know a little more about OEs than most and a few people were badly hurt by that and I do very much hope the full story comes out some day.
However what happened at OEs and previously at Halifax and other clubs outside the professional game has happened for years...........it is unlikely to ever to be completely eradicated because some clubs will over reach. There is also another very significant difference between the failure of a club at level 3 or below and the failure of a club at level 2 and particularly at level 1 being the Premiership. Clubs at level 3 and below do not get any real funding from the RFU, Championship clubs get aan amount of circa £140k but have to pay out virtually all of that on insurance and medical costs (mandatory) .....The Premiership Clubs get £20m+ per annum from the RFU The Premiership is a totally different kettle of fish. A lot of livelihoods are at stake and most of us cannot see how the current situation is going to improve. Stephen Lansdown is right in that the professional game needs more revenue for it to be able continue in the manner it has been set up. For my part I cannot see where these new fans/eyeballs/advertsisers/sponsors/backers are going to come from. The only rugby that really generates revenues is the international game and that is probably driven more by jingoism than anything else. Personally I do not think Premiership Rugby in its current form is sustainable .
Edited by Big Eddie - 29 Sep 2022 at 09:02 |
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''The future isn't what it used to be''
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Steve@Mose ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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Worcester players left in limbo on their futures after confusion over contracts
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Count Ford ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 20 May 2017 Location: WA4 Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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If I was a Worcester player I would just walk out now and do my best to find a contract elsewhere. Let the 'owners' come after them in court for breach of contract if they really want. What possible losses can they claim for? The stadium is shut and no rugby is happening |
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Steve@Mose ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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Sadly there's nowhere for them to go in the Premiership as clubs will have recruited up to the salary cap, and I can't imagine there's many Championship clubs able to provide players with an equivalent salary to that which they are on at Wuss. RPA have had a say about matters:
If the Wuss players get paid tomorrow then, I believe, they will remain bound by their contracts with WRFC Players Ltd.
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Count Ford ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 20 May 2017 Location: WA4 Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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True..I suspect they are holding out to try and at least get September wages. Maybe a few could have options abroad but I would trust absolutely nothing from the current owners and given the whole mess with various parts of the club seemingly owned by different entities, I don't see administration being a quick process unless there is a buyer willing to come straight in with deep pockets |
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Steve@Mose ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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As I understand it - the Worcester Warriors in administration is a rugby club business without any male first team players* contracted to it. Any person(s) willing to take Warriors out of administration would have to deal with Whittingham and Goldring who "own" the players. Rotten legitimate business practices it would appear. (*I have no idea to whom the women's team and the academy are/were contracted)
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Richard Lowther ![]() Coaching staff ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 6631 |
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Surely the contract is as a rugby player. If the club can't provide the rugby then the contract becomes void?
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FHLH ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Cambridge Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Location: Cambridge Status: Offline Points: 5571 |
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Interesting point - replace rugby player with accounts clerk and the latter still keeps their job and contractual obligations, so no different unless an element of restraint of trade comes into the contract but I understand that these clauses are generally unenforceable. Edited by FHLH - 29 Sep 2022 at 23:40 |
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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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WEvans ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1456 |
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It's not only married couples who have worked and not received wages tigerburnie. As for season tickets I believe the various direct debit runs to collect money from ST applicants didn't actually take place so there are very few (if any) ST holders. I would also take issue with your last statement about the business being punished. Whereas I totally agree with the sentiment the people who need punishing are those who "ran" the business. I would hate to see the club finally disassociate themselves with the owners only to then be further punished for the actions of these two disreputable clowns.
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Steve@Mose ![]() World Cup Winner ![]() Joined: 01 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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I believe it's all a moot point now:
Edited by Steve@Mose - 30 Sep 2022 at 18:33 |
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