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Splitting the League

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WILD BOAR 1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WILD BOAR 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 12:31
Toulouse it will of course be Nat 1 South and you appear to have missed Lucs/Dings etc.

As it stands Cambridge will be in the Championship and Chinnor promoted.

Unsure if there is a split it will be next season or 25/26?

 


Edited by WILD BOAR 1 - 10 Jan 2024 at 12:32
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 12:35
Travel is always more of an issue for Darlington, or Redruth, than for Chinnor or Cambridge.
Looking at that list, how are the mighty fallen, no Cornish sides
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 12:36
Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....

So National 1 North is 5 clubs from current National 1, 7 from Nat 2

National 2 South is 1 current Championship side, 9 current National 1 sides, and 4 from Nat 2.

I'm not sure that addresses the 'dilution of standards' point terribly well if I'm being brutally honest. 


Edited by billesleyexile - 10 Jan 2024 at 12:37
keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 13:16
At present, there is no intention to reduce the Championship below 12.
So Cambridge and probably one of Chinnor/Rams will play there.

So were it to come in next season, it would probably be 5+9 and 7+7.

I am not sure how we arrange promotion and relegation between two and three leagues - assuming we keep three leagues at level 3.

However, we have no idea what will happen in 2025 - after RFU bring in Premiership 2.
It might be better to delay a major reorganisation until then.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 14:57
If the RFU carry out the threat and relegate all the championship sides(there may be one or two who might take the RFU's poisoned silver), then there is a whole new ball game to be played. Another classic situation where businesses cannot conduct their business because the RFU are giving no information in a timely manner as to what the hell is going on, farce doesn't really cover it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 15:49
I believe that is for the 2025 season.
Which is why I would not try to make changes this year.
But if I were in charge, I would be seeking feedback on the new league and cup structure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nat1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 16:46
Change is afoot, but won't be noticeable until the 2025-26 season.

Prem 2 will become a reality, and will be stocked by the likes of Ealing, Donny, Cov and Pirates. Alongside these professional 'former' Champ clubs will be the new franchise clubs and/or Welsh/Scottish clubs making up the numbers.

The likes of Notts, Ampthill, Bedford, Scottish, Cambridge, Caldy will revert to what we currently know as National 1, alongside the other semi-pro teams of similar size and scope. The cascading effects will shunt those who lie near the bottom down a league and so on. Whether these leagues are split 2 or 3 ways is anyone's guess at this stage.

The RFU have had enough of a ramshackle second tier in English rugby that they can't control or quantify. Like it or not, they see the future of the Premiership (and Prem 2) being solely the domain of professionals outfits, able to attract TV coverage, meaningful sponsorship and thereby filling their coffers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 17:16
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....

So National 1 North is 5 clubs from current National 1, 7 from Nat 2

National 2 South is 1 current Championship side, 9 current National 1 sides, and 4 from Nat 2.

I'm not sure that addresses the 'dilution of standards' point terribly well if I'm being brutally honest. 
I agree with your point....it's not going to be easy and it will not please everyone!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 17:18
Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....

Typo...National 1 south
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 01:02
Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....

*Blaydon?

Regardless the league would not be competitive as 90% of the clubs proposed in North are part time players enjoying Rugby. And there could be a health and wellbeing aspect with them playing against semi pros, or pros when you include there community rugby coaching roles. Not sure it’s a good idea at all in truth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 07:25
Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:

Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....

*Blaydon?

Regardless the league would not be competitive as 90% of the clubs proposed in North are part time players enjoying Rugby. And there could be a health and wellbeing aspect with them playing against semi pros, or pros when you include there community rugby coaching roles. Not sure it’s a good idea at all in truth

the current Champ involves part-time v semi-pro v full-time and works ok without major health/wellbeing concerns; but clearly there are clubs on the list above who would need to devote more attention/investment on ensuring their p/t players were adequately conditioned...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 09:27
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Travel is always more of an issue for Darlington, or Redruth, than for Chinnor or Cambridge.ea
Looking at that list, how are the mighty fallen, no Cornish sides

Can you explain your last comment? Redruth have been joined in Nat2 West this season by Camborne and of course Pirates have been at level 2 for years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WILD BOAR 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 09:39
Tend to agree with much of Nat 1's post....are you in the know???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 10:31
I remember when Redruth were National 1 along with Launceston.
And there was Mount's Bay.
So I would have expected one or two to make the expanded Nat 1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 10:36
Originally posted by WILD BOAR 1 WILD BOAR 1 wrote:

Tend to agree with much of Nat 1's post....are you in the know???

Same. That does seem the logical conclusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Se7en Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2024 at 13:36
Yes I agree also. A far more balanced idea to have those clubs back in a national league with other semi pro sides and leaving the fully pro elite game to it in Prem and Prem II. You can but hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red over White Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 11:32
Assuming Dudley in Nat 1 North is Dudley Kingswingford. Not sure how they made it in given that Sheffield Tigers are higher than DK in their respective leagues.

Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:

Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....

*Blaydon?

Regardless the league would not be competitive as 90% of the clubs proposed in North are part time players enjoying Rugby. And there could be a health and wellbeing aspect with them playing against semi pros, or pros when you include there community rugby coaching roles. Not sure it’s a good idea at all in truth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 15:55
Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....


Typo...National 1 south


This split ends up with a southern section far stronger than the northern equivalent.

Judging by how N2 has always been split, you need to take the strongest 28 teams nationwide then put the 14 most northern into the North section, the rest into the south.

Dudley are in the bottom 2 of N2W and someone suggested Blaydon who aren't even in N2.

The main problem is the same as the current N1 where the majority of the clubs are in the south.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 16:45
I don't think I have laughed so much for a while, there's some comedians posting some of this stuff, thanks. lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2024 at 16:47
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Originally posted by Toulouse Toulouse wrote:

Nat 1 North....DMP, Leicester, Sale, Sedgley Park, Moseley, Leeds Tykes, Rotheram Titans, Sheffield, Fylde Wharfedale, Dudley, Chester, Loughborough and Tynedale.
Nat 2 South.....Esher, Dorking, Chinnor, Rams, Taunton, Cambridge, B. Stortford, Cinderford, Blackheath, Richmond, Rosslyn, Plymouth, Bury St. Edmunds and Henley.
Still 14 teams in each set...cost lower....


Typo...National 1 south


This split ends up with a southern section far stronger than the northern equivalent.

Judging by how N2 has always been split, you need to take the strongest 28 teams nationwide then put the 14 most northern into the North section, the rest into the south.

Dudley are in the bottom 2 of N2W and someone suggested Blaydon who aren't even in N2.
With the RFUs Premiership 2 and the possible relegation of Championship teams......I'm totally confused at what is going on!!

The main problem is the same as the current N1 where the majority of the clubs are in the south.
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